Why so many relays!

[t-man403]

I have read this thread and others regarding fuse panels.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,39819.0.html

I'll try and keep this short ........ no pun intended!  

I have installed a relay off the 5amp acc wire to trigger on power to the fuse panel.
I put a 10 amp fuse in the fuse block to run a set of small 35watt spot lamps though this switch block from Show Chrome. http://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/20314 The switches are rated at 10 amps each.
I would like to use another one of the switches for a light bar, the third, I'm not sure yet.
I will also be putting on the Stebel air horn.

My dilemma? From what I have read, some are saying all I have to do now is pop in another fuse on the fuse panel and wire the accessory to that terminal. Others are saying I need a relay for each accessory. If the later is the case, I'm not understanding the reason for the fuse panel as the relays take up the space anyway.

[Hoser]

One relay to your fuse block is all that is necessary.  Hoser

[Ricky-D]

The fuses are there to protect the circuit.

You should want to protect each circuit individually so a fuse would be required for each. This way, if one circuit goes down, the others, being protected by their own fuse, will still be operational.

The relays are there to protect the switch, and in some cases the primary wiring, but mainly the switch.

All the switches have a rating but that can be confusing at times because I think the ratings are based on different voltages and sometime a/c current instead of d/c. This always is confusing to me.

So to protect each switch, a relay is a good idea, for each switch.

***

[Gryphon Rider]

As long as the switch and wiring for the accessory (including a light bar) can handle the current, there really is no need for another relay.  If your switch is good for 10A, you can switch a circuit that powers 10A x 12V = 120W of load.  One thing to keep in mind, however, is that you may wish to switch off high current devices when you start the bike.  Spot lights, light bars, etc. that are on with the key on as you intend to wire them, will NOT automatically turn off when you push the start button.  To make this happen, at least one more relay is required that uses the blue/white headlight wire to supply the control circuit.

[hubcapsc]

I put a relay in front of my fuse box so that the fuse box would be hot
only when the key was on.

I put a relay, also, in front of each accessory I added.

I think it would work to just have the relay in front of fuse box, but I
think you also have to factor in the possible load and the rating
of the relay.

It would be a drag to be riding along on a winter night with all your
heated clothes on, your extra lights on, and have your fuse box relay
fry when you also beeped your bigBF horns...

-Mike

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

When sizing relays and/or switches for your loads, give yourself at least a 10% service factor. The ratings are "as new" and also nothing lasts as l

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Doh... Blew the last post. Dang phone. Anyway nothing lasts as long when used at 100%. Think of running your engine at full throttle all the time, she won't last as long. Anyway just my 2 cents.

[chrise2469]

Nobody has mentioned the main reason for a relay, to allow a lower current device to provide a greater current draw.

Your main fuse panel relay is allowing the relatively low 5 amp circuit to trigger and provide a higher current to the panel.

You only really need to add a relay when the trigger is unable to handle the new load.

In your case, I would not add a relay for the lights just the fuse as long as the wire is of sufficient gauge.  Here's a table with wiring gauge, amp and lengths
http://rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm

For the stebel horn you should use a relay.  The stebel is a 20 amp draw but the circuit on the bike is a 10 amp.  In this case you should use a relay with the trigger being the horn button (10) and the power from the relay to the horn.

Hope this helps you.

[Denny47]

I concur with chrise2469. Wired in a PC-8 on mine with the trigger wire being the acc. wire. Also installed a relay to the Stebel with the horn button triggering the relay to the horn. Load wires come off the PC-8

[sandy]

I have an aux panel triggered by a relay off the acc fuse. The 2nd relay is for the air horn. The wires for the horn button are too small, so I pull in 20 amps using a relay fired by the horn button.

[t-man403]

Nobody has mentioned the main reason for a relay, to allow a lower current device to provide a greater current draw.

Your main fuse panel relay is allowing the relatively low 5 amp circuit to trigger and provide a higher current to the panel.

You only really need to add a relay when the trigger is unable to handle the new load.

In your case, I would not add a relay for the lights just the fuse as long as the wire is of sufficient gauge.  Here's a table with wiring gauge, amp and lengths
http://rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm

For the stebel horn you should use a relay.  The stebel is a 20 amp draw but the circuit on the bike is a 10 amp.  In this case you should use a relay with the trigger being the horn button (10) and the power from the relay to the horn.

Hope this helps you.

I did exactly this with the horn this morning, after I made the first post, so thanks for the back up support. I just pulled the existing horn wire up behind the neck cover and installed the relay up there. Took power from the new fuse panel to the relay and from the relay to the horn.

Everything works and the lights are bright, the horn is very loud.

I have a new dilemma now. Suggestions are welcome!!

The problem is the bike doesn't start ................ I mean not even a click, grunt or groan, but everything else works. So, I'm havin' a shot of Irish Whiskey so I can pretend I'm happy before I go back out to the garage to figure out what's going on!

EDIT: I did not touch any of the factory wiring. I took power from the main fuse link to keep the battery area clear of wiring.

[valkyran97]

I had the same problem with starting found kill switch to be my problem.
Must have bumped it moving things around. Imagine that something
Easy to check.

[Denny47]

Kill switch on right handle bar, start button, side stand, neutral, fuses to starter near where you connected hot wire for fuse panel.???

[t-man403]

It's amazing what a shot of whiskey will do! 

Got it fixed and so far the suggestions given had nothing to do with it. Had nothing to do with my wiring either. It had to do with the way a certain component was re-installed  ............. any guesses?

[hubcapsc]

It's amazing what a shot of whiskey will do! 

Got it fixed and so far the suggestions given had nothing to do with it. Had nothing to do with my wiring either. It had to do with the way a certain component was re-installed  ............. any guesses?

You didn't put the tip-over switch on upside down did you?

-Mike "no one else has ever done that... "

[jimmytee]

I've got two relays installed. Bought the Kury 3 switch device that mounts on top of the brake reservoir. It came with inline fuses in the wiring harness. The problem with that was that where they were located would have forced trying to deal with them up around the triple trees. No real good place for them there. So I cut them out,leaving enough wire on each side of the fuses for reconnection. I spliced,soldered and heat shrinked the wires together and relocated the fuses to the compartment behind the battery. I have the three switches operating, one a relay for the driving lights, two, a relay to turn on my stereo (there is no accessory position in the ignition switch of a standard) and three, my LED lighting controller.
I like the pc8 device that BF refers to,but out of expediency, I came up with this.

The PO had removed the stock rear turn signal/license plate assembly and relocated the turn signals to the brackets for the sissy bar. Didn't look bad,but with the saddlebags I installed, they would've interfered with the full use of my bag lids. For the license plate there was a nice chrome bracket or whatever ( that wasn't lit by the way ) . I relocated the turn signals with a purchase of the normal assembly and thus have the old license plate holder sitting around. I was looking for an alternative way to mount the relays. On a whim,  I found that the old license plate bracket fit about perfectly inside of the compartment behind the battery. I didn't even have to alter it. I simply used existing holes to mount the relays. Worked out pretty good. Not quite as clean as the PC8, but it works...

[t-man403]

It's amazing what a shot of whiskey will do! 

Got it fixed and so far the suggestions given had nothing to do with it. Had nothing to do with my wiring either. It had to do with the way a certain component was re-installed  ............. any guesses?

You didn't put the tip-over switch on upside down did you?

-Mike "no one else has ever done that... "

DOH!!  That's what I did. 

I don't know why I did that, I didn't touch it after I took it off and laid it down on the engine. I didn't even know what it was. A couple buddys came over and the one was looking at the schematic and he asked me about it, so I took a look at the picture and noticed it was reverse of how I had it installed. Flipped it over and away she goes.

Always an adventure .............

[pancho]

so which way does it go??? wires on top, rounded end down???

[Tropic traveler]

It's amazing what a shot of whiskey will do! 

Got it fixed and so far the suggestions given had nothing to do with it. Had nothing to do with my wiring either. It had to do with the way a certain component was re-installed  ............. any guesses?

You didn't put the tip-over switch on upside down did you?

-Mike "no one else has ever done that... "

DOH!!  That's what I did. 

I don't know why I did that, I didn't touch it after I took it off and laid it down on the engine. I didn't even know what it was. A couple buddys came over and the one was looking at the schematic and he asked me about it, so I took a look at the picture and noticed it was reverse of how I had it installed. Flipped it over and away she goes.

Always an adventure .............

Been there, done that! 

[hubcapsc]

so which way does it go??? wires on top, rounded end down???

There's words on it, just look at them. I didn't look for any
words or arrows on it, I just put it back on the "obvious"
way... which was upside down...

-Mike

[pancho]

... HA ...  Thats funny... I looked and it does say "up" on it..

The obvious way to me when I thought about what it was for, was that direction (a pendulem swinging in that case) ,,, I would have at least gotten THAT one right when I put that stuff back together.

[t-man403]

... HA ...  Thats funny... I looked and it does say "up" on it..

The obvious way to me when I thought about what it was for, was that direction (a pendulem swinging in that case) ,,, I would have at least gotten THAT one right when I put that stuff back together.

so which way does it go??? wires on top, rounded end down???

Yup, round end down!

I didn't notice any sort of directional stuff on the unit itself ............ except for all the dust that was on the bottom ............. I mean the top. 

[t-man403]

One think I forgot to mention, while looking for my starting problem I pulled out the starter relay to check the fuse there. Upon taking the fuse cover off, I found the four pin connector to the coil corroded ...............  which could have lead to a real starting problem in the near future.

Might be something worth looking at periodically as part of your routine maintenance.