Question: What is a Liberal

[dreamaker]

I hear people talk about and slam Liberals in our forum all the time, but I am not sure what they are.  I may be one. I am not a Democrat or a Republican or belong to any Political or Social Clicks. I guess in some cases you could say I am Socially Challenged maybe!!   I don't understand the rituals or mimic what is popular gestures for bad boy.  I  tend to be very independent and not go with the popular or socially, except-able concepts.  I go in the direction of what I feel is right and what is fair and what is respectful to others until they give me reason not to. I don't wear or display trinkets or logos to conform to the good-o-boy mind set or refer to someone as brother unless I mean it. I don't like waving to bikers as they pass by, because it don't make sense to me.   I hate "Politically Correct" because it destroys our way of life.     SOOOOOO!!!    What am I, am I a Liberal.
Define Liberal !!

[Patrick]

Liberal ! Hmmm, could be a toughy. To me, and probably only to me, at least regarding this forum, it concerns money.
Since there are only [roughly] 4 political parties, I'm still a conservative until they come with a real libertarian party. Maybe they already have one, I don't know. But, anyway, when it comes to governmental spending I'm a staunch conservative.
And I think most of the arguments, err, discussions we have are basically over money. Some are regarding loss of freedoms, but, I still feel most are over spending because they are so closely related.
And, if I'm wrong, I'll be told.

[hubcapsc]

If you generally believe and support the attitudes you hear on NPR news and the Huffington post, and like
to be in-your-face to people who read Fox News about how they ought to know it is really Faux News,
then you are "a liberal".

Please wave at me next time you pass if it is safe to do so, it is fun, why does it have to make sense?



-Mike

[The Anvil]

And, if I'm wrong, I'll be told.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong. You certainly could make a convincing argument that conservatives and liberals alike are both concerned, first and foremost, with money and how it it utilized. But I personally don't think it's that simple for most people who fall into either category. There are also a lot of opposing social philosophies at that don't have a lot to do with money at all. The divide over gay marriage is the best example I can think of right now.

Patrick, not to get off topic, but how would you define a "real libertarian party"? I'm not asking to start an argument, I'm genuinely curious about how different people look at these things.

[thewoodman]

this might help the discussion. I reprint from an old editorial in my local paper written years ago which defined 'liberal'. It reads this way:

'AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICANS SPIN THEIR VIEWS ABOUT LIBERALS; AND AS I HAVE NO PARTY AFFILIATION, I DECIDED TO SEE WHY A LIBERAL WAS SO BAD WORD AND WHY I DID NOT WANT TO BE ONE.

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

[musclehead]

And, if I'm wrong, I'll be told.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong. You certainly could make a convincing argument that conservatives and liberals alike are both concerned, first and foremost, with money and how it it utilized. But I personally don't think it's that simple for most people who fall into either category. There are also a lot of opposing social philosophies at that don't have a lot to do with money at all. The divide over gay marriage is the best example I can think of right now.

Patrick, not to get off topic, but how would you define a "real libertarian party"? I'm not asking to start an argument, I'm genuinely curious about how different people look at these things.

hmm, I'm not for or against gay marraige I don't care as it has absolutely no impact on my rights. the libertarian side of my brain doesn't give a hoot. would I vote against it in my state, I don't honestly know, I doubt I would. gay couples being married leading to a moral decay in our country is a WHOLE 'nother arguement

fiscally I'm conservative, socially not so much.

the capital punishment issue or abortion might be a better baromater for a lib/con debate. maybe gun rights?

[The Anvil]

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

But liberals are often as closed minded, prejudiced and intolerant as "conservatives". Those are just nice words that describe the liberal's view of themselves. It is often not so.

[Patrick]

this might help the discussion. I reprint from an old editorial in my local paper written years ago which defined 'liberal'. It reads this way:

'AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICANS SPIN THEIR VIEWS ABOUT LIBERALS; AND AS I HAVE NO PARTY AFFILIATION, I DECIDED TO SEE WHY A LIBERAL WAS SO BAD WORD AND WHY I DID NOT WANT TO BE ONE.

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

Boy, I guess I wouldn't want to be or are one of them there 'illiberal's'.  I sure don't want to be 'niggardly', whatever that means.
So, by that definition I guess I just have to be a liberal. OMG !

[musclehead]

this might help the discussion. I reprint from an old editorial in my local paper written years ago which defined 'liberal'. It reads this way:

'AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICANS SPIN THEIR VIEWS ABOUT LIBERALS; AND AS I HAVE NO PARTY AFFILIATION, I DECIDED TO SEE WHY A LIBERAL WAS SO BAD WORD AND WHY I DID NOT WANT TO BE ONE.

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

perhaps, but I' have seen some very untolerant views from libs (cons too, but that's expected right?)

and I would add it's easy to be charitable with other people's money

(don't be so open minded that your brain falls out)

[dreamaker]

Please wave at me next time you pass if it is safe to do so, it is fun, why does it have to make sense?



-Mike

I am not implying that it is wrong to wave as you pass, but I wave and hand shake to people because I mean it, not because I want to be part of a click. Now if I was walking down the street would you wave or if there was a homeless vet. walking by would you wave.  Understand this is only my opinion!!!  Now far as  "Why does it have to make sense" isn't that the mission statement of ObamaCare. LOL

[Serk]

I'll just use my obviously biased views on what a modern liberal is, wants and believes from what I see: (Modern liberal being almost a 180 degree from a classical liberal)

-Success should be punished
-Equality of results, not equality of opportunity
-Help the weak by destroying the strong
-Bigger government is better government
-People should be defenseless and at the control of the government
-White heterosexual males are inherently evil and must be cut off at the knees to be "fair"
-People should be controlled by the government in all facets of their lives

I could go on, but that's how I see it. You can sugar coat any of those, of course, and make them sound all flowery like, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Of course, modern conservatives aren't a whole lot better in many respects.

Short version - liberals wanna destroy business and free the individual, conservatives wanna control the individual and free business. (Obvious exceptions, guns being one.)

Beware the great global libertarian conspiracy! We want to take over the world, and then LEAVE YOU ALONE.

[Patrick]

I really think definitions have changed over the years.
From what I read there are 3 different versions of libertarianism. That alone kinda makes things a bit confusing, doesn't it.
Probably as most of us have done, my opinions have changed a lot over the years. I like to think that as we age we get somewhat smarter.
I don't really care what one does, as long as it doesn't interfere with me or anyone else. Such as, if you want to keep your house as a junk yard I don't care. If you want to smoke, I don't care as long your smoke doesn't interfere with what I want to do.
I was once pro-choice, but, no longer. With electronic advancements that allow us to see these little people develop as soon/quickly as they do and to watch them fight for their life during an abortion, I've changed my opinion.
I was once for capital punishment. No longer, except for certain circumstances. I was kinds sorta involved in such a case in that I knew a fella in prison for a murder he didn't commit. I didn't know either way at the time, but, he was eventually found innocent and released. He was always in the auto shop and I used to go into this max security facility to teach auto repair classes.
Gay marriage. I was once about as homo-phobic as one could get. Spending winters in Key West has changed that. One can still disagree with that life style, but, they are still just people.
Personal responsibility, yep, everyone should have that. I'm a firm believer in that. Take care of you and yours. And, then give to what or who you want to and not to what or who the government wants to.
Why am I saying this, I don't know. I better stop.

[..]

this might help the discussion. I reprint from an old editorial in my local paper written years ago which defined 'liberal'. It reads this way:

'AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICANS SPIN THEIR VIEWS ABOUT LIBERALS; AND AS I HAVE NO PARTY AFFILIATION, I DECIDED TO SEE WHY A LIBERAL WAS SO BAD WORD AND WHY I DID NOT WANT TO BE ONE.

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

Boy, I guess I wouldn't want to be or are one of them there 'illiberal's'.  I sure don't want to be 'niggardly', whatever that means.
So, by that definition I guess I just have to be a liberal. OMG !

Niggardly + parsimonious are bed fellows.

[Patrick]

this might help the discussion. I reprint from an old editorial in my local paper written years ago which defined 'liberal'. It reads this way:

'AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICANS SPIN THEIR VIEWS ABOUT LIBERALS; AND AS I HAVE NO PARTY AFFILIATION, I DECIDED TO SEE WHY A LIBERAL WAS SO BAD WORD AND WHY I DID NOT WANT TO BE ONE.

ACCORDING TO WEBSTER'S THESAURUS, LIBERAL IS - PROGRESSIVE, REFORM-MINDED, TOLERANT, UNBIGOTED, BROAD MINDED, UNPREJUDICED, MAGNANIMOUS, GENEROUS, HONORABLE, VOUNTIFUL, BENEFICIENT, FREE, CHARITABLE, OPEN-MINDED, MUNIFICENT, ABUNDANT, UNSTINTING, AND LAVISH.

BOY! I SURE DON'T WANT TO BE ANY OF THOSE.

ILLIBERAL WAS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERAL: INTOLERANT, PREJUDICED, STINGY, PARSINMONIOUS AND NIGGARDLY.'

Boy, I guess I wouldn't want to be or are one of them there 'illiberal's'.  I sure don't want to be 'niggardly', whatever that means.
So, by that definition I guess I just have to be a liberal. OMG !

Niggardly + parsimonious are bed fellows.

What !  Now that means that they are gay too ! OMG squared !

[dreamaker]

I'll just use my obviously biased views on what a modern liberal is, wants and believes from what I see: (Modern liberal being almost a 180 degree from a classical liberal)

-Success should be punished
-Equality of results, not equality of opportunity
-Help the weak by destroying the strong
-Bigger government is better government
-People should be defenseless and at the control of the government
-White heterosexual males are inherently evil and must be cut off at the knees to be "fair"
-People should be controlled by the government in all facets of their lives

I could go on, but that's how I see it. You can sugar coat any of those, of course, and make them sound all flowery like, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Of course, modern conservatives aren't a whole lot better in many respects.

Short version - liberals wanna destroy business and free the individual, conservatives wanna control the individual and free business. (Obvious exceptions, guns being one.)

Beware the great global libertarian conspiracy! We want to take over the world, and then LEAVE YOU ALONE.

Interesting !!!!! Based on what you said I guess I am not a Liberal but I am just Independent.
But keep in mind, correct me if I am wrong, not sure if this is exactly the way it is said.  I heard some place the quote, " If you use the right words in the right order you can rule the world"  Also "Be careful what you say  right or wrong it can be used against you"

[The Anvil]

Why am I saying this, I don't know. I better stop.

I don't have an issue with any of that, in fact it's an awful lot like my outlook.

But I asked in part because I've head some people describe the libertarian ethos (or their idea of it anyway) as not so much a libertarian but as more of a libertine and there's a big difference despite the similar sounding title.

[musclehead]

capital punishment is a split for me. when you have the perp on video, with multiple eye witnesses. fry the guy, with the slim possible exception of an ACTUAL case of insanity (some of the mug shots of the most recent mass murderers look pretty loopy  )

there were a quite a few cases made in cook county Il that were circumstantial beyond belief. DNA evidence suppressed allowing focus of the wrong person, time lines stitched together that would have to be expertly timed to the minute.

too many death row cases were overturned because the case was thin, but somehow they got the conviction. the defense atty's must not be very good up there.....

[Oss]

I hear that a dog in ft collins colorado was just approved on the obamacare website

probably just another nutty email story

if a gay person wants to get married and be likely to need a divorce or be miserable as so many
married people then what the heck do I care anyway

Do Liberals realize the party of freedom for slaves was the Republican Party not the Democratic Party

Most city dwellers, well lets call em the blue states, have no clue,  My own random results of my asking clients is most are clueless indeed. and clueless across age sex etc


You can be liberal in giving to charity, or liberal in serving portions at dinner,
You can be liberal in giving away other people's money - interestingly this was once called
conspiracy to commit larceny but when government does it its called taxation

You can be liberal in wanting people to get free this or that

Labels are just that  they divide people

Better to ask positions on issues and then decide but what the hell do I know

And like Mike,  I wave  because i can

as to Libertine, (free love) well they have websites for that but google should not allow advertising on them if they want to be consistent with their values

[BF]

I hear people talk about and slam Liberals in our forum all the time, but I am not sure what they are.  I may be one. I am not a Democrat or a Republican or belong to any Political or Social Clicks. I guess in some cases you could say I am Socially Challenged maybe!!   I don't understand the rituals or mimic what is popular gestures for bad boy.  I  tend to be very independent and not go with the popular or socially, except-able concepts.  I go in the direction of what I feel is right and what is fair and what is respectful to others until they give me reason not to. I don't wear or display trinkets or logos to conform to the good-o-boy mind set or refer to someone as brother unless I mean it. I don't like waving to bikers as they pass by, because it don't make sense to me.   I hate "Politically Correct" because it destroys our way of life.     SOOOOOO!!!    What am I, am I a Liberal.
Define Liberal !!

I'm having trouble trying to figure out why you need someone else to tell you what you are. 

Sounds to me like you're a liberal. 

[Moonshot_1]

Liberal -- from Webster's dictionary-- believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change : relating to or supporting political liberalism.

My view of a Liberal. A person who seeks to solve social, economic, and other related issues by first applying Government solutions generally via the Federal / Large Government and undermining the ability of having those issues addressed by private enterprise.

My opposition to Liberalism is that, in a Nation of Free People, it tends to undermine the concept of Freedom. That the Government solution to an issue prevents people from exercising their freedom to decide for themselves and manage their own affairs.
The Affordable Care Act is a case in point.

It must be noted that this is not absolute. Government must play a role in any society. But in a Nation of Free People, that role must be strictly limited. To cede such freedoms to the Government must take more than a simple majority, so precious are our Freedoms.

One of the stories that has guided my life for many years is the "Marsh of the Camarina".
This story was in a book written by Carl Sagan and was one of the stories that had an impact on him as well.

The story is of a group of people, who back in 950 BC were exiled by a Monarch, from a place in Northern Italy and into a great marsh.
These folks wandered through the marsh for years, finally coming to the other side where they established a settlement and called it Camarina.

This settlement grew into a town and eventually a fairly large city which became a major stop on a major trade route.

All was wonderful in this place except that every year a plague and pestilence would spread through the city. Some years it would not be too bad but other years there would be dozens who would perish from it.

This continued for generations. Some just attribute it to God. Some to various spirits and fate.

About 350 BC a man began tracking this plague. Did it for a couple years in a row. What he discovered is that the people who lived closest to the Marsh would get sick first and would get sick worse than anyone else. He also noted that the sickness would spread from the marsh outward through the rest of the city with the worse cases closest to the marsh.

Clearly, the cause was the marsh or what was in it. He concluded it was some kind of parasite to small to be seen. What was happening was that there was a bacteria bloom every year and this bacteria was what was making the people sick.

He took his findings to the city council who then decided to begin a huge public works project to drain the marsh. The city elders however, were adamantly opposed to the idea believing that God put the marsh there for a reason and they had no right to drain it.
So the idea was shelved.

The following year recorded the worst outbreak of the plague in their memory. The loss of life was staggering. The people then demanded the Council begin the work to drain the marsh.

The following year after the draining of the marsh, not a single Camarianian got sick. There was not a single death due to the plague. This had never happened before.
And the year after that...

Not a single Camarianian would be found alive.

Now with the marsh drained, the marsh dried out. When it dried out the marsh bed became hard. Hard enough for the army from the country from which they were exiled from to march over it and kill every last man, woman and child and burn Camarina to the ground.

I've found that liberals like to drain the marsh.  Not consider draining part of it. Not entertaining other approaches. They tend to see a problem and drain the whole marsh with little regard to consequences.

Sometimes the Marsh is there for a reason.

[Serk]

Every time this thread pops to the top, this song jumps into the playlist in my head, so I wanted to share the joy...

Jello Biafra and Mojo Nixon - Love me,I'm a liberal

[dreamaker]

I hear people talk about and slam Liberals in our forum all the time, but I am not sure what they are.  I may be one. I am not a Democrat or a Republican or belong to any Political or Social Clicks. I guess in some cases you could say I am Socially Challenged maybe!!   I don't understand the rituals or mimic what is popular gestures for bad boy.  I  tend to be very independent and not go with the popular or socially, except-able concepts.  I go in the direction of what I feel is right and what is fair and what is respectful to others until they give me reason not to. I don't wear or display trinkets or logos to conform to the good-o-boy mind set or refer to someone as brother unless I mean it. I don't like waving to bikers as they pass by, because it don't make sense to me.   I hate "Politically Correct" because it destroys our way of life.     SOOOOOO!!!    What am I, am I a Liberal.
Define Liberal !!

I'm having trouble trying to figure out why you need someone else to tell you what you are.  

Sounds to me like you're a liberal.  

Good point!!! I like to think that I am an independent person and not a recluse one.  I guess we all need a point of reference in our life and convictions so we can try and make good decisions.  If we tend to veer off from time to time to regain perspective to figure what is real and what is crap. For example: now in our gov, these people are some of the most informed, educated people and come from the most prestigious institutions in the world, correct. So how can they have manifested the most boneheaded blunder creation in history of our healthcare?  Now is it a blunder, or is it some kind of strategy, for a hidden agenda.  Ever hear the term hidden in plain sight. I don't know, that is why I try to keep an open minded in my thought process. Would a Liberal be open minded and open to change.

[hubcapsc]

Every time this thread pops to the top, this song jumps into the playlist in my head, so I wanted to share the joy...

Jello Biafra and Mojo Nixon - Love me,I'm a liberal

I don't know from Jello Biafra, but a long time ago (back in the Usenet days) I used to
save quotes I liked... I remember this one, so I went to fetch it, and look what the next one
in the quote file is... 

The Dead are a bad back up band for anybody. They make all the songs sound
like the Dead. I love the Dead don't get me wrong. But when they do a song
it sounds like the Dead, it doesn't matter who is on stage with them, they
could do "F*** Off Nazi Punks" with Jello Biafra and it would still sound
like a Dead song.
                                       - Dave D. Cawley
                                         rec.music.dylan


The assumption that ERA, MLK birthday, affirmative action, homeless
shelter programs, etc., etc. are "obviously" desirable and that
any person or community that disagrees needs to be pressured into
conforming with [these views] is one of the most obnoxious characteristics
of the modern so-called liberal.

                                       - Doug Gwyn
                                         comp.org.usenix

[Pete]

In order to be a far left liberal you must be able to deny reality and be completely illogical. It is that simple.

[The Anvil]

as to Libertine, (free love) well they have websites for that but google should not allow advertising on them if they want to be consistent with their values

That is certainly within the bounds of being a libertine, but it can be more than that. I was referring more to the general outlook of the broader libertine philosophy which is (my distilled version); do whatever the hell I like regardless of whether or not my actions impact someone else negatively.

[musclehead]

Liberal -- from Webster's dictionary-- believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change : relating to or supporting political liberalism.

My view of a Liberal. A person who seeks to solve social, economic, and other related issues by first applying Government solutions generally via the Federal / Large Government and undermining the ability of having those issues addressed by private enterprise.

My opposition to Liberalism is that, in a Nation of Free People, it tends to undermine the concept of Freedom. That the Government solution to an issue prevents people from exercising their freedom to decide for themselves and manage their own affairs.
The Affordable Care Act is a case in point.

It must be noted that this is not absolute. Government must play a role in any society. But in a Nation of Free People, that role must be strictly limited. To cede such freedoms to the Government must take more than a simple majority, so precious are our Freedoms.

One of the stories that has guided my life for many years is the "Marsh of the Camarina".
This story was in a book written by Carl Sagan and was one of the stories that had an impact on him as well.

The story is of a group of people, who back in 950 BC were exiled by a Monarch, from a place in Northern Italy and into a great marsh.
These folks wandered through the marsh for years, finally coming to the other side where they established a settlement and called it Camarina.

This settlement grew into a town and eventually a fairly large city which became a major stop on a major trade route.

All was wonderful in this place except that every year a plague and pestilence would spread through the city. Some years it would not be too bad but other years there would be dozens who would perish from it.

This continued for generations. Some just attribute it to God. Some to various spirits and fate.

About 350 BC a man began tracking this plague. Did it for a couple years in a row. What he discovered is that the people who lived closest to the Marsh would get sick first and would get sick worse than anyone else. He also noted that the sickness would spread from the marsh outward through the rest of the city with the worse cases closest to the marsh.

Clearly, the cause was the marsh or what was in it. He concluded it was some kind of parasite to small to be seen. What was happening was that there was a bacteria bloom every year and this bacteria was what was making the people sick.

He took his findings to the city council who then decided to begin a huge public works project to drain the marsh. The city elders however, were adamantly opposed to the idea believing that God put the marsh there for a reason and they had no right to drain it.
So the idea was shelved.

The following year recorded the worst outbreak of the plague in their memory. The loss of life was staggering. The people then demanded the Council begin the work to drain the marsh.

The following year after the draining of the marsh, not a single Camarianian got sick. There was not a single death due to the plague. This had never happened before.
And the year after that...

Not a single Camarianian would be found alive.

Now with the marsh drained, the marsh dried out. When it dried out the marsh bed became hard. Hard enough for the army from the country from which they were exiled from to march over it and kill every last man, woman and child and burn Camarina to the ground.

I've found that liberals like to drain the marsh.  Not consider draining part of it. Not entertaining other approaches. They tend to see a problem and drain the whole marsh with little regard to consequences.

Sometimes the Marsh is there for a reason.

and nancy pelosi said she wanted to drain the swamp in her first year 

[Patrick]

In order to be a far left liberal you must be able to deny reality and be completely illogical. It is that simple.

Well, there are those like that. I happen to know a few.

[The Anvil]

In order to be a far left liberal you must be able to deny reality and be completely illogical. It is that simple.

Well, there are those like that. I happen to know a few.

Again, that one goes both ways.

[oZ]

And I quote:

Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. 

[Patrick]

And I quote:

Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. 

I'm a card carrying member of that club. 

[MarkT]

The Fence Test

You can't get any more accurate than this!
This is straight forward country thinking.




Which side of the fence? If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!


If a Conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.

If a Liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.




If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.

If a Liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.




If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.

If a Liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.




If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

If a Liberal is down-and-out he wonders who is going to take care of him.




If a Conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.

A Liberal demands that those they don't like be shut down.




If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.

A Liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.




If a Conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.

If a Liberal decides he needs health care, he demands that the rest of us pay for his.




If a Conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A Liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

Well, I forwarded it.

[oZ]

Quote:
The Fence Test

You can't get any more accurate than this!
This is straight forward country thinking.

Which side of the fence? If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

Damn;
That post just about says it all!

[Patrick]

The Fence Test

You can't get any more accurate than this!
This is straight forward country thinking.




Which side of the fence? If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!


If a Conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.

If a Liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.




If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.

If a Liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.




If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.

If a Liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.




If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

If a Liberal is down-and-out he wonders who is going to take care of him.




If a Conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.

A Liberal demands that those they don't like be shut down.




If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.

A Liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.




If a Conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.

If a Liberal decides he needs health care, he demands that the rest of us pay for his.




If a Conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A Liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

Well, I forwarded it.

[The Anvil]

The Fence Test

You can't get any more accurate than this!
This is straight forward country thinking.




Which side of the fence? If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!


If a Conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.

If a Liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.




If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.

If a Liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.




If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.

If a Liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.




If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

If a Liberal is down-and-out he wonders who is going to take care of him.




If a Conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.

A Liberal demands that those they don't like be shut down.




If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.

A Liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.




If a Conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.

If a Liberal decides he needs health care, he demands that the rest of us pay for his.




If a Conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A Liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

Well, I forwarded it.

Depends on the person. I know a number of liberals who like and own guns. I also know liberals who have no problem with the mention of God and Jesus.

I'm sorry, but it's just not that simple. Not with liberals and not with conservatives either. It never is.

[Serk]

And here's why I call myself a libertarian (Small "L") and not a Conservative:

If a libertarian is against abortion, he doesn't have one or fund one.
If a Conservative is against abortion, he tries to ban everyone from having one.

If a libertarian is against gay people getting married, he doesn't marry someone of the same gender.
If a Conservative is against gay people getting married, he fights to keep other people from marrying people of the same gender as themselves.

If a libertarian finds a TV show/movie/music offensive, he turns it off.
If a Conservative finds a TV show/movie/music offensive he lobbies his congressman to regulate/ban "smut."

etc, etc, etc... If we could all just worry about our own lives and less about other people's lives, this would be a much better, more peaceful world in my ever so humble opinion...

[Patrick]

And here's why I call myself a libertarian (Small "L") and not a Conservative:

If a libertarian is against abortion, he doesn't have one or fund one.
If a Conservative is against abortion, he tries to ban everyone from having one.

If a libertarian is against gay people getting married, he doesn't marry someone of the same gender.
If a Conservative is against gay people getting married, he fights to keep other people from marrying people of the same gender as themselves.

If a libertarian finds a TV show/movie/music offensive, he turns it off.
If a Conservative finds a TV show/movie/music offensive he lobbies his congressman to regulate/ban "smut."

etc, etc, etc... If we could all just worry about our own lives and less about other people's lives, this would be a much better, more peaceful world in my ever so humble opinion...

See, we'll all different. As a maybe libertarian, I disagree with the first issue, but, wholeheartedly agree with the last one. We can't all agree on everything can we, and, it should be that way shouldn't it.

[The Anvil]

And here's why I call myself a libertarian (Small "L") and not a Conservative:

If a libertarian is against abortion, he doesn't have one or fund one.
If a Conservative is against abortion, he tries to ban everyone from having one.

If a libertarian is against gay people getting married, he doesn't marry someone of the same gender.
If a Conservative is against gay people getting married, he fights to keep other people from marrying people of the same gender as themselves.

If a libertarian finds a TV show/movie/music offensive, he turns it off.
If a Conservative finds a TV show/movie/music offensive he lobbies his congressman to regulate/ban "smut."

etc, etc, etc... If we could all just worry about our own lives and less about other people's lives, this would be a much better, more peaceful world in my ever so humble opinion...

[BF]

Liberalism:

Moochers electing looters to steal from producers.

[john]

 

[Mobile Mayor]

agree!