I think this is a bad idea but is it even legal?

[Raider]

Thanks, RJ.

My 12 year old came along on my trip to Maine last year (from NC).  My 8 year old (who can reach the pegs) is probably coming to Inzane with me this summer.  Hoping it doesn't turn into some lecture session.

[Hoser]

Why should we be looking for more restrictions in what is supposed to be a free country?  I can remember riding in the back of a pickup cause my folks did not have a car and all six of us kids are still alive and kicking.  Are we just looking for big brother to take care of us?  Sounds like Oboma and his ilk are winning.  I want no part of it.  And if momma wants to take the young un for a bike ride it is her business.  Not child abuse and not our business. As for me, I will mind my own business, I am tired of big brother.  JMHO.  Hoser  

Apparently being in the back of that pickup you must have smacked you head around a few times. Its not Big Brother to consider keeping children safe and not stealing their childhood and future.  Stupid people is all our business, because it threatens all our well being. because we can't trust ones judgment.  I lost several childhood friends, because their parents didn't think it was anyone's business. Children are not toys, possessions or objects of amusement for us, they are people and need to be kept safe and out of harms way.

Sorry dreamaker, your talking to deaf ears, it's her business, not mine or yours or the government.  We don't even know if she is doing anything unlawful, and your getting all in a wad over your imagination of what might happen.  Bad things happen every day. To all kinds of people, good and bad.  Maybe you should "smack your head around" as you so quaintly put it.  You might get some common sense from it.  Bye bye now.  Hoser  

[fudgie]

I dont think I would do it but I'm not 1 to tell one not to do it.

My HD bud brought his daughter home from the hospital on his bike tucked in his leather jacket. 

Ive had babies/kids die in cars seats in cars from a sideswipe. They were properly restrained and only thing wrong was they were not in the center of the seat, which is not ileagal.

[Hoser]

Hey, my peeps showed up! Thank you all for your support, Common sense usually makes sense, don't cha think.  Hoser 

[Rams]

+1, Hoser!

Seems like a LOT of you are making the case that MC riding is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and that if a child is on one, it is CHILD ABUSE!

Me thinks if it is THAT BAD, motorcycles themselves should be banned, and NONE of us can ride.

Sure glad NO CHILD has EVER been harmed riding in a car!  Not one!

Should be banned, car riding hurts kids.  Trains are safer, so are airplanes, so next time you go to Grannies for Christmas, it is against the law to take the car, you MUST take the train or the airplane.

Nanny state, here we come!  Yeha!

MP

Again, I do not support a Nanny State, it's her kid.
But, since you brought it up, statistically, car safety versus motorcycle safety?
Injuries and deaths in cars versus injuries and deaths on bikes?


As I previously said, you can not legislate common sense.

And, I don't think we should try to become more of a nanny state.    Would I do what she's doing?   No Fricking Way.  

It's her kid (I assume), parental authority and responsibility.    It's her's to deal with.  

But, let something happen, it'll be on her also.  

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.  

Just my opinion.

[old2soon]

+1, Hoser!

Seems like a LOT of you are making the case that MC riding is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and that if a child is on one, it is CHILD ABUSE!

Me thinks if it is THAT BAD, motorcycles themselves should be banned, and NONE of us can ride.

Sure glad NO CHILD has EVER been harmed riding in a car!  Not one!

Should be banned, car riding hurts kids.  Trains are safer, so are airplanes, so next time you go to Grannies for Christmas, it is against the law to take the car, you MUST take the train or the airplane.

Nanny state, here we come!  Yeha!

MP

Mel-take a VERY deep breath. in. out. in. out. all better now.  RIDE SAFE.

[MP]

+1, Hoser!

Seems like a LOT of you are making the case that MC riding is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and that if a child is on one, it is CHILD ABUSE!

Me thinks if it is THAT BAD, motorcycles themselves should be banned, and NONE of us can ride.

Sure glad NO CHILD has EVER been harmed riding in a car!  Not one!

Should be banned, car riding hurts kids.  Trains are safer, so are airplanes, so next time you go to Grannies for Christmas, it is against the law to take the car, you MUST take the train or the airplane.

Nanny state, here we come!  Yeha!

MP

Mel-take a VERY deep breath. in. out. in. out. all better now.  RIDE SAFE.

Sorry.  LOL!   

MP

[MP]

+1, Hoser!

Seems like a LOT of you are making the case that MC riding is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and that if a child is on one, it is CHILD ABUSE!

Me thinks if it is THAT BAD, motorcycles themselves should be banned, and NONE of us can ride.

Sure glad NO CHILD has EVER been harmed riding in a car!  Not one!

Should be banned, car riding hurts kids.  Trains are safer, so are airplanes, so next time you go to Grannies for Christmas, it is against the law to take the car, you MUST take the train or the airplane.

Nanny state, here we come!  Yeha!

MP

Again, I do not support a Nanny State, it's her kid.
But, since you brought it up, statistically, car safety versus motorcycle safety?
Injuries and deaths in cars versus injuries and deaths on bikes?

Just my opinion.

By that same token, as I mentioned, trains and planes are MUCH safer than cars, so should we be upset about taking kids in cars?

EVERYTHING has risks.  Seems like lately we want to legislate "safety" into everything.

I took my 5 year old grandson with me. Helmet, intercom, coat, gloves, boots, feet reaching.  So, I guess I am guilty of "child abuse" too?

I asked a FL Highway Patrol Motor Officer, MC cop, about my sidecar for my grandkids.  Has bucket seat, seat belt.  He looked at it, and said as long as they are wearing a helmet, legal.  And, he thought it was a great way to introduce them to MCing.

I doubt being in a sidecar is any safer than sitting on the back of a MC, maybe less so, as you cannot get thrown clear, and if you hit a car, you have no hope of getting thrown over the top of the car.

MP

[dreamaker]

Why should we be looking for more restrictions in what is supposed to be a free country?  I can remember riding in the back of a pickup cause my folks did not have a car and all six of us kids are still alive and kicking.  Are we just looking for big brother to take care of us?  Sounds like Oboma and his ilk are winning.  I want no part of it.  And if momma wants to take the young un for a bike ride it is her business.  Not child abuse and not our business. As for me, I will mind my own business, I am tired of big brother.  JMHO.  Hoser  

Apparently being in the back of that pickup you must have smacked you head around a few times. Its not Big Brother to consider keeping children safe and not stealing their childhood and future.  Stupid people is all our business, because it threatens all our well being. because we can't trust ones judgment.  I lost several childhood friends, because their parents didn't think it was anyone's business. Children are not toys, possessions or objects of amusement for us, they are people and need to be kept safe and out of harms way.

Sorry dreamaker, your talking to deaf ears, it's her business, not mine or yours or the government.  We don't even know if she is doing anything unlawful, and your getting all in a wad over your imagination of what might happen.  Bad things happen every day. To all kinds of people, good and bad.  Maybe you should "smack your head around" as you so quaintly put it.  You might get some common sense from it.  Bye bye now.  Hoser  

Don't get me wrong, your probably the nicest guy in the world.  Like I said before, you can learn allot about a person by what they write, its not the deaf ears that concerns me its what is between them that does, I guess each to their own. But the thing is I would never trust your judgment and I hope I never have to. I'm done!!!!

[Patrick]

Why should we be looking for more restrictions in what is supposed to be a free country?  I can remember riding in the back of a pickup cause my folks did not have a car and all six of us kids are still alive and kicking.  Are we just looking for big brother to take care of us?  Sounds like Oboma and his ilk are winning.  I want no part of it.  And if momma wants to take the young un for a bike ride it is her business.  Not child abuse and not our business. As for me, I will mind my own business, I am tired of big brother.  JMHO.  Hoser  

Apparently being in the back of that pickup you must have smacked you head around a few times. Its not Big Brother to consider keeping children safe and not stealing their childhood and future.  Stupid people is all our business, because it threatens all our well being. because we can't trust ones judgment.  I lost several childhood friends, because their parents didn't think it was anyone's business. Children are not toys, possessions or objects of amusement for us, they are people and need to be kept safe and out of harms way.

Sorry dreamaker, your talking to deaf ears, it's her business, not mine or yours or the government.  We don't even know if she is doing anything unlawful, and your getting all in a wad over your imagination of what might happen.  Bad things happen every day. To all kinds of people, good and bad.  Maybe you should "smack your head around" as you so quaintly put it.  You might get some common sense from it.  Bye bye now.  Hoser  

Don't get me wrong, your probably the nicest guy in the world.  Like I said before, you can learn allot about a person by what they write, its not the deaf ears that concerns me its what is between them that does, I guess each to their own. But the thing is I would never trust your judgment and I hope I never have to. I'm done!!!!

Well, thats whats nice about still living in a semi-free country.  We're still allowed to make a few choices.

[Skinhead]

We seem to have a lot of intolerance to other peoples opinions here.  My feelings on this are:

Personally, I would not do what the lady in question is doing.  While the child is as safe as any of us who ride, everything is gravy until things go wrong.  If God forbid, something happened (get off, cage infringing on ROW, loss of control) I would be concerned that the child is now strapped to a 6-700 pound object traveling God knows how fast, and a car seat is not designed to provide protection in that situation.

I also oppose any nanny state regulations, and would prefer to rely on common sense or the Darwin effect.  

I hope every one that ventures out for a ride, returns home safely, but we all know that sometimes it doesn't happen.  We as riders accept that risk.  Unfortunately the child has the risk thrust upon him.

[dreamaker]

We seem to have a lot of intolerance to other peoples opinions here.  My feelings on this are:

Personally, I would not do what the lady in question is doing.  While the child is as safe as any of us who ride, everything is gravy until things go wrong.  If God forbid, something happened (get off, cage infringing on ROW, loss of control) I would be concerned that the child is now strapped to a 6-700 pound object traveling God knows how fast, and a car seat is not designed to provide protection in that situation.

I also oppose any nanny state regulations, and would prefer to rely on common sense or the Darwin effect.  

I hope every one that ventures out for a ride, returns home safely, but we all know that sometimes it doesn't happen.  We as riders accept that risk.  Unfortunately the child has the risk thrust upon him.

+1

[3fan4life]

I spent 30 years working in EMS.

This pretty much sums up the hardest part of the job...............




Once while working traffic control at a minor accident that had the street blocked a woman pulled up and insisted that she be allowed to go down the street. I noticed that she had a young child in the car that wasn't in a car seat (A BIG PET PEEVE OF MINE). I pointed out to the woman that her child should be in a car seat. She began to give me some lame excuse about it being a borrowed car, I told her it that didn't matter and that if she loved her child she would make sure that she rode in a car seat.

As the woman angrily turned her car around, I heard the child ask her, "Mommy, why don't you love me ?"

I'm betting that she never again drove around without the child in a car seat.




While I don't think that what this lady is doing here is safe, I don't believe that I would call her on it.




I would keep silent for many reasons but mainly because she looks like she could kick my butt. 

[Patrick]

I would keep silent for many reasons but mainly because she looks like she could kick my butt.  Evil Evil

end quote;



Yep, that too !  She doesn't look like the type to take constructive criticism well.   

[MP]

Here is pic of grandson on sidecar rig. CP rides in hack. If just me and him, he rides in hack. Hack needs heaviest rider in hack for balance.

You have to imagine the riders backest up into Nates belly when I am on, and his feet are on saddlebag racks for support. And, the IS has arm rests wrapped around, so he is really locked in there. His helmet has intercom and mic, so both of can talk to him, and he to us. Gloves and over jacket go on yet.

Sounds like to some, I am irresponsible and a child abuser. So be it.

MP

[Rams]

+1, Hoser!

Seems like a LOT of you are making the case that MC riding is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and that if a child is on one, it is CHILD ABUSE!

Me thinks if it is THAT BAD, motorcycles themselves should be banned, and NONE of us can ride.

Sure glad NO CHILD has EVER been harmed riding in a car!  Not one!

Should be banned, car riding hurts kids.  Trains are safer, so are airplanes, so next time you go to Grannies for Christmas, it is against the law to take the car, you MUST take the train or the airplane.

Nanny state, here we come!  Yeha!

MP

Again, I do not support a Nanny State, it's her kid.
But, since you brought it up, statistically, car safety versus motorcycle safety?
Injuries and deaths in cars versus injuries and deaths on bikes?

Just my opinion.

By that same token, as I mentioned, trains and planes are MUCH safer than cars, so should we be upset about taking kids in cars?

EVERYTHING has risks.  Seems like lately we want to legislate "safety" into everything.

MP

MP,
I'm actually surprised you quoted me and then decided to use trains and planes as a comparison.   Cages and motorcycles are much more comparable than trains and planes compared to motorcycles.   That's not to suggest that there are not some who use a train or plane on a daily basis but, I sincerely doubt very many have all of those choices in the garage.    As far as legislating Safety in this circumstance, I believe if you re-read my post, I said I was not in favor of a nanny state followed by, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. 

What or who a rider choses to put on behind them is their choice, I don't have to agree with it.     That still leaves me with the ability to not approve of their choice.   
Last summer, a rider came in on a sport bike to where I work.   He was helmetless but the child who was on behind him was wearing his helmet.   The child could not reach the foot pegs and was holding on to the rider.    He saw my Valkyrie and asked who owned it.   Raised my hand and turned to walk away.   Both were wearing shorts, tennis shoes and what I call muscle shirts.   

As he left, he wheelied about fifty feet down the street with the kid hanging on.    His choice, IMHO, bad choice but, not my call and most assuredly, not against any motorcycling laws I'm aware of in this state.    Well, maybe child endangerment and reckless driving.   Again, not my call but that doesn't mean I have to approve.

[MP]

Never said you had to approve, but words like "child abuse", "irresponsible", etc were tossed out there.  NOT just by you.

It seemed like the trend was, "If the passenger is underage, then the rider is committing child abuse, etc.

Many shades of grey.  I agree with the experience you had, that that was bad.  I think you will agree, that MY situation, and others, is different.  I have a sidecar, so the fall over, hit a patch of gravel and wreck, do not apply.  Still can have accidents though.  Full helmet, gloves, jacket,footrests, etc.

My reference to planes and trains was simply that it seemed that if one did not do the absolute safest thing, then it was bad.

Kind of like saying if you let a kid go swimming in a river or a lake, then you are "bad", because a pool with a lifeguard is "safer".

EVERYTHING we do has risk.  I guess hoser and I, and some others, were brought up in a different time and place.  He was a farm boy too.  I was driving a farm truck, a real truck, not a pickup, solo, at age 5.  I ran combine and tractor, at 10, working full days.  ND had farm licenses back then, and I had a farm license at age 12. I was LEGALLY driving a loaded farm truck at 30,000# gross to town, 17 miles away, to sell wheat at that age.  Around the farm roads MUCH earlier.

Today, I imagine my father and grandfather would be jailed for abuse?  ALL my friends were doing the same thing, some younger than me.  I would guess our fathers probably did even MORE, at younger ages, than we did?

Times have changed.  We have become wimps, followed around by nanny cops.  I truly believe responsibility and risk assessment need to be developed at an early age. Keeping kids in a straight jacket until 18, seems to be producing a generation that believes they are invincible.

I guess hoser and I, and others, are a dying breed.  And, I have risen thousands of miles with hoser, staying with him all the time.  To the poster who said they would NOT trust his judgement, you truly do NOT know what you are talking about.

MP

[Hoser]

It's a good thing I'm following MP, I'd probly get lost without his GPS! I have been known to pull over and check my Rand Mcnally before.   Thanks, buddy. Let's go to Arkansas.      Hoser

[Rams]

MP,
We are in agreement in your situation.    You are correct, there are many shades of gray and I'm talking about the much darker version.    I also agree that children need to learn.    

I was also raised as a farm kid in Kansas.   Had similar experiences to your own and yes, I was hauling grain and hay at 12 years of age.    I was also breaking horses for others to make side money.    My concern is solely based on what was shown in the original picture of this thread.    She appears to be in the twisties with a child in a dangerous situation IMHO.   I believe the rider is exposing the child to an un-necessary risk.   That's my opinion based on what I see in the picture.    That doesn't mean in every case giving a youngster a ride is bad but, there is always a risk.

Long ago before seat belts, my dad was taking my four year old niece over to show her off to a friend, being this was in rural Kansas, the road was gravel.   Dad went around a left hand 90 degree corner and my niece (his grand daughter) went flying out the door.   She had been holding on to the door handle and he didn't realize it.    I can't tell you how shook up my dad was over this.   She only got a little road rash but from that point on, she road right beside him with the doors locked.   Anything can happen any  time.

I am an avid advocate of seat belts for those underage who are endangered in cages and yet, I hate that adults are required to wear them.    I feel the same way about helmet laws.   An adult should have the right to make the decision to either wear or not wear the "recommended" safety equipment.   Kids don't always know or understand the risky situations they are being put into.

[Varmintmist]

In PA,

Feet on the pegs by law, helmet required for underage riders and operators. So no it would not be legal here.

[Patrick]

I too believe we now live in a Nanny State, and, I'm from the Land of Liberals. I was working at a young age also and don't think it hurt me, much.
I was pushing a lawn mower at 7 which today would have my father being arrested. Yep, we even have laws concerning kids cutting grass. And we wonder why kids can't, don't want to, or,  don't know how to work today.
It seems we were doing a lot of things at a much younger age than kids today, except maybe sports. Many of us had to work instead.

[Hef]

My kids rode with me at a very early age. I live in a rural area and have lots of country roads around. I used to let them set in front of me on the tank and would seldom ever go over 35-40 mph when they were with me. When they got older and could reach the pegs I let them ride behind me. All three kids survived and all became riders themselves in their youthful days. Is it safe? That's  questionable. I tend to think that life is full of risks and how far you want to test it is up to the individual. As far as legal, I had an interesting occurrence just last summer. I had my eight year old grandson on the bike with me. He was on the passenger seat, wearing a helmet and sunglasses. We were riding some country roads and a county deputy pulled us over. when I asked why he stopped me he replied that it was illegal to have someone that young on a motorcycle. I told him I thought he was wrong and that I would like for him to tell me exactly what the law says. He took my driver's license, insurance card, and registration card and went back to his car and made a call. When he came back from his car, he handed me my information back and apologized for stopping me. I asked him about the law and he wouldn't respond. He just said "have a nice day and I think that is extremely dangerous andI wouldn't do that to my grandson."

[old2soon]

I have gone over this entire thing again and I M H O it boils down to-perception. We are aware that if you have 4 witness's to an accident you have 4 different versions. If I'm correct on the perception issue the lady in question may have perceived no problem with what she is doing. I DO NOT want to see a child maimed while trying to have some fun. And-yup-more than enough nanny state B S flying around us as it is. I've had 6 people in the regular cab of my 3/4 ton chevy pickup. SAFE-no way in hell but it was damn cold out the night I did it. We were lucky-we weren't caught. My perception of anything may NOT line up with some one elses perception of the same thing. RIDE SAFE.

[Patrick]

MP,
We are in agreement in your situation.    You are correct, there are many shades of gray and I'm talking about the much darker version.    I also agree that children need to learn.    

I was also raised as a farm kid in Kansas.   Had similar experiences to your own and yes, I was hauling grain and hay at 12 years of age.    I was also breaking horses for others to make side money.    My concern is solely based on what was shown in the original picture of this thread.    She appears to be in the twisties with a child in a dangerous situation IMHO.   I believe the rider is exposing the child to an un-necessary risk.   That's my opinion based on what I see in the picture.    That doesn't mean in every case giving a youngster a ride is bad but, there is always a risk.

Long ago before seat belts, my dad was taking my four year old niece over to show her off to a friend, being this was in rural Kansas, the road was gravel.   Dad went around a left hand 90 degree corner and my niece (his grand daughter) went flying out the door.   She had been holding on to the door handle and he didn't realize it.    I can't tell you how shook up my dad was over this.   She only got a little road rash but from that point on, she road right beside him with the doors locked.   Anything can happen any  time.

I am an avid advocate of seat belts for those underage who are endangered in cages and yet, I hate that adults are required to wear them.    I feel the same way about helmet laws.   An adult should have the right to make the decision to either wear or not wear the "recommended" safety equipment.   Kids don't always know or understand the risky situations they are being put into.

Seatbelts. This may a bit of a digression, but, here it is. Don't read it if you think it is. I was brought up in the auto business. When young I've had to pull folks off steering columns that had jumped up and speared them, never did get used to that. We used to install quite a lot of seat belts back when they were dealer installed items. Then they even fastened to the floor and door which did help to keep the door shut. We were big advocates of these belts and I even ran the demonstration seats for the State Police and DMV at the state fair years later during the 70s. I'm still surprised at the number of folks that still refuse to wear the belt. But, we still live in a semi-free country and folks are almost free to make their own decisions.

[R J]

I grew up on a farm also.

Drove the tractor at a very early age.   Had to stand up to steer it, had a hand cluthch so that wasn't a problem, but trying to get around to where my foot hit the brake I didn't have much pressurer to stop it.

Baling hay, I rode the ass end of the baler where they stick wire back and forth on the bales.   A VERY DIRTY JOB BACK THERE.

If I wasn't riding the combine in later years, I was driving the tracter to and from the field or to town to the elevator.

I also ran the corn picker, dad and grandpa both told me if it got plugged up to stop, shut it off, put the park brake on, and then proceed to get off and clear it out.     Grandpa, I thought he meant it back then, but now I know it was a smoke screen, told me if he ever caught me trying to unplug it with the tractor running, he'd toss me up into the picker and gather up the pieces and feed me to the hogs.

I also drove our 39 Chevrolet Stake truck to the elevator with corn, soybeans, oats or whatever we were harvesting that the elevator would buy.   I recall being like 10 or 11 at the time.

Only problem I ever had and got my ass kicked for it was tipping a wagon load of hay over in the ditch.    We had a habit of taking to the ditch to get to the main road.   I was told if I did it that way, take the tractor straight in and let the hay rack follow.    Well this time I took it at an angle and low and behold it tipped over.   I think I was like 9 maybe 10 at the time.    Grandpa told me to start tossing hay in the wagon when we got the hay rack back on all 4 wheels.   He let me pitch hay till I had a real good sweat worked up.    Then grandpa let the other people helping with the hay to help me out.    I never used the ditch again, I'd drive about a 1/2 mile to the gate where the entry/exit place and then drove another 1/2 mile to the house.   Was the only accident I ever had on the farm.   I was taught safety at a very early age and it never left me.

In the couple of years before I went into the Marine Corps, I'd drive the tractor into and out of ditches pulling logs, or trees grandpa or dad had cut down for the winter wood pile.   I remember when we moved onto that farm, we had a bunch of saplings in the creek.    When I went in the service, they were real good size for the pot belly stove and or the kitchen stove.

Do I regret those times, nope, I didn't.    I know my older kids got a taste of farming, but my younger ones didn't.   My youngest son, I taught him how to rebuild engines, and today he is in the Auto/truck repair and making a very good living.   My youngest daughter is a Construction Engineer and has a very good job that pays better than some of her male co=workers get paid.

Sorry for the hijack on this posting.   

[fudgie]

EVERYTHING we do has risk.  I guess hoser and I, and some others, were brought up in a different time and place.  He was a farm boy too.  I was driving a farm truck, a real truck, not a pickup, solo, at age 5.  I ran combine and tractor, at 10, working full days.  ND had farm licenses back then, and I had a farm license at age 12. I was LEGALLY driving a loaded farm truck at 30,000# gross to town, 17 miles away, to sell wheat at that age.  Around the farm roads MUCH earlier.

Today, I imagine my father and grandfather would be jailed for abuse?  ALL my friends were doing the same thing, some younger than me.  I would guess our fathers probably did even MORE, at younger ages, than we did?

Times have changed.  We have become wimps, followed around by nanny cops.  I truly believe responsibility and risk assessment need to be developed at an early age. Keeping kids in a straight jacket until 18, seems to be producing a generation that believes they are invincible.

I guess hoser and I, and others, are a dying breed. 

I whole heartedly agree. Kids today, well I'll just say city kids, have no idea what its like. While our (family) farm is not as big, only 240 ac, its hard work. I remember as a 3-4 yr old helping dad and g-pa in the milk house, well the best I could at that age. Drove tractors at 10 and would walk up and down the bean rows hoeing weeds all day long and each round was a mile long. Did that as a early teen. Now I just help dad with the labor part of it, hand digging broken tile, picking up rocks, baling hay & straw, and loading seed into the drill, while my uncle drives the tractors. I have a few scars, had some close calls and the worked sucked but I enjoyed it.
Hats off to you older farmers who didnt have the technology then like they do now.

[Hoser]

EVERYTHING we do has risk.  I guess hoser and I, and some others, were brought up in a different time and place.  He was a farm boy too.  I was driving a farm truck, a real truck, not a pickup, solo, at age 5.  I ran combine and tractor, at 10, working full days.  ND had farm licenses back then, and I had a farm license at age 12. I was LEGALLY driving a loaded farm truck at 30,000# gross to town, 17 miles away, to sell wheat at that age.  Around the farm roads MUCH earlier.

Today, I imagine my father and grandfather would be jailed for abuse?  ALL my friends were doing the same thing, some younger than me.  I would guess our fathers probably did even MORE, at younger ages, than we did?

Times have changed.  We have become wimps, followed around by nanny cops.  I truly believe responsibility and risk assessment need to be developed at an early age. Keeping kids in a straight jacket until 18, seems to be producing a generation that believes they are invincible.

I guess hoser and I, and others, are a dying breed. 

I whole heartedly agree. Kids today, well I'll just say city kids, have no idea what its like. While our (family) farm is not as big, only 240 ac, its hard work. I remember as a 3-4 yr old helping dad and g-pa in the milk house, well the best I could at that age. Drove tractors at 10 and would walk up and down the bean rows hoeing weeds all day long and each round was a mile long. Did that as a early teen. Now I just help dad with the labor part of it, hand digging broken tile, picking up rocks, baling hay & straw, and loading seed into the drill, while my uncle drives the tractors. I have a few scars, had some close calls and the worked sucked but I enjoyed it.
Hats off to you older farmers who didnt have the technology then like they do now.

Ah yes, walking the rows with a corn knife chopping out sunflower and cockle burrs all day.  Woo Hoo.    Hoser