Freedom of Speech and Good Friday

[Momz]

While driving home from the gym today I saw this lady in front of the Mosque in Dearborn.

In the short time that I was there, she received several vocal death threats.

She was not on private property and she said "God Bless You" to everyone that stopped, including those that threatened her.

[bentwrench]

Brave of her.I'd have two guns on me if I were in her shoes.

[Chrisj CMA]

Momz...I expected the story to end with her being told she couldnt hold that sign because she might offend someone.  Good For Her!

[.]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

[MP]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I agree 100%.

MP

[Chrisj CMA]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

Haters are gonna hate


Did you see the part about where she just answered "God bless you" to a death threat.

When muslims are exercising their rights why does it seem to involve death threats.  Or escorting a person with an opposing view away from the area. Say what you will, Christians are being denied 1st ammendment rights more than any other group.

I say again, Good for her!

[Big Al of Tennessee]

The Muslims Repeat and Repeat this Phrase ,,

There is no God but ALLAH.

SO I guess she is allowed to say Mohammed is Dead.

Christ was Dead and In the Grave for 3 days. Only thing is he was resurrected, no grave could

hold him down. Without this we would be without a Savior.

Mohamed is DEAD AND IN THE GRAVE.

Come and Get Me FATWAH BOYS, my soul is prepared.

[Oss]

at least she hasnt been told she has to register pay a fee and wear a star

world is a crazy place

I sincerely hope all of you brothers and sisters that
are of the Christian persuasion have a very Happy Easter

It dont bother me none worship as you wish, leave me free to do the same

Only 4 more days of eating this matzah left.  Half way there

Hell, even Moslems trying to pass themselves off as Christian eat it   

[Momz]

This lady stood in the same spot as Pastor Terry Jones, when the Dearborn police arrested him for not having a permit to protest.

Whether we agree or not in their precepts, we as Americans must never let our government take away our "freedom of speech".

[Serk]

[Fritz The Cat]

She's right, Muhammad is dead. 

[Robert]

I think the first part of the sign is good but the last sentence is really not needed. Dont know her reason for doing it. But any reason that does not glorify the Lord is the wrong one.



We serve the risen Lord not a dead prophet. and to my fellow brothers He is risen, Happy Easter.

[bentwrench]

"We serve the risen Lord not a dead prophet. and to my fellow brothers He is risen, Happy Easter."

Indeed.

[Moonshot_1]

Got no problem with "free speech"

But I would comment that this action with this sign in front of a Mosque is designed to antagonize people, not profess one's faith.

While I "respect" her right to "free speech" I see her "speech" here in the same category as the "free speech" of the Westboro Baptist Church folks. Just looking to piss people off cause she can.

So while I "respect" her right to "free speech" I don't have much respect for her.

[Willow]

... He is risen, Happy Easter.

He is risen indeed!  Have a happy resurrection Sunday. 

[Big Al of Tennessee]

at least she hasnt been told she has to register pay a fee and wear a star

world is a crazy place

I sincerely hope all of you brothers and sisters that
are of the Christian persuasion have a very Happy Easter

It dont bother me none worship as you wish, leave me free to do the same

Only 4 more days of eating this matzah left.  Half way there

Hell, even Moslems trying to pass themselves off as Christian eat it   

Hang in there buddy, at least you are practicing your religion as you believe.

All the things I worship came from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Throw in Noah, David, and Joseph

we are almost right there with yah. I had to explain to my wife what Passover represents. That is

truly pitiful, as when we were first married, she was religious and I was not. Time changes.

We all do as well.

Happy Passover, from Large Smelly Al

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Got no problem with "free speech"

But I would comment that this action with this sign in front of a Mosque is designed to antagonize people, not profess one's faith.

While I "respect" her right to "free speech" I see her "speech" here in the same category as the "free speech" of the Westboro Baptist Church folks. Just looking to piss people off cause she can.

So while I "respect" her right to "free speech" I don't have much respect for her.

I try to see it both ways, Muslims don't.

Just keep telling yourself that as they Push Sharia Law off on the populous.

[Robert]

As I sit and thank the Lord for even knowing Him I think about the Passover. It was not only that the death angel passed over the Jews houses the ones with the blood over the door posts, but the plagues also did not touch the Jews. It was not the grain of the Jews or the animals or their lives that were taken, the Jews suffered no loss over any of the plagues that were brought against the Egyptians, it was only the Egyptian's that suffered loss. I understand better why even the Egyptian citizens pleaded with with Pharaoh to let the Jews go. If I was suffering and saw someone not suffering I would wonder why. I would definitely listen and want the misery to be gone especially when I could see the results of someones wrong decisions effecting my life. What a demonstration and clear dividing line between the gods of the Egyptians the the true God of the Jews. I think how many times Pharaoh acknowledged God only to still hold on to the Jews. We serve a mighty God able to even change the hearts of men, make a dividing line between plague and health and life and death. Thank you God that while the blood of bulls and calves was appropriation for sins that today we have a much better sacrifice in Jesus. We are made whole.

[Momz]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I personally have no animosity or distain for Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.
Nor do I hate Koreans, Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Gypsies, etc.

But if we are American citizens, then we have the "freedom of speech".
If you are not a citizen,.....keep your views to yourself!

Non-citizens should not have any "rights" or receive and type of governmental assistance or even schooling until they receive citizenship.  JMHO

[Chrisj CMA]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I personally have no animosity or distain for Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.
Nor do I hate Koreans, Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Gypsies, etc.

But if we are American citizens, then we have the "freedom of speech".
If you are not a citizen,.....keep your views to yourself!

Non-citizens should not have any "rights" or receive and type of governmental assistance or even schooling until they receive citizenship.  JMHO

+1,000

[old2soon]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I personally have no animosity or distain for Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.
Nor do I hate Koreans, Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Gypsies, etc.

But if we are American citizens, then we have the "freedom of speech".
If you are not a citizen,.....keep your views to yourself!

Non-citizens should not have any "rights" or receive and type of governmental assistance or even schooling until they receive citizenship.  JMHO

When you become a citizen of the U S of A they are indoctrinated in our laws that are already on the books governing this country. There is a process to add change or modify some of these laws. Coming from another country and DEMANDING to be allowed to use the laws of your country WILL NOT WORK HERE. We have laws here already that when used properly seem to work from time to time. I to believe and worship the risen GOD. sharia law has no place in my life-now or ever. Also sharia law has no place in our country. As others have made note of-freedom of speech is EXACTLY what it says-you may not agree but it's called freedom of speech for a reason. I M H O her sign could draw unwanted or wanted attention-BUT I back her 100% for that freedom of speech thing she seems to be practicing.  RIDE SAFE.

[art]

Got no problem with "free speech"

But I would comment that this action with this sign in front of a Mosque is designed to antagonize people, not profess one's faith.

While I "respect" her right to "free speech" I see her "speech" here in the same category as the "free speech" of the Westboro Baptist Church folks. Just looking to piss people off cause she can.

So while I "respect" her right to "free speech" I don't have much respect for her.

I agree, she has the right but what is the reason? To stir the pot and get people angry? Not sticking up for anyone but if someone did that in front of a church people would want to kick ass. I do respect her right to protest I just want to know why.

[.]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I personally have no animosity or distain for Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.
Nor do I hate Koreans, Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Gypsies, etc.

But if we are American citizens, then we have the "freedom of speech".
If you are not a citizen,.....keep your views to yourself!

Non-citizens should not have any "rights" or receive and type of governmental assistance or even schooling until they receive citizenship.  JMHO

But how do we tell at the outset who is and who is not a citizen? Check IDs? Do we check the IDs only of those who catch our attention by saying something we don't like or do we require IDs to be offered up prior to ever picking up a sign or opening one's mouth, as so to not run the risk of appearing to only challenge speech that we don't like or that comes from someone whose appearance might make their ancestry suspect? And, when someone makes a statement, popular or not, by what process would you propose to shut them up if they cannot prove their citizenship? What recourse should they have if they cannot prove their citizenship on the spot but later manage to produce the appropriate "papers?"

If only simple solutions could stay simple once you start breaking them down.

[Momz]

ShadowDragon,

There are ways to prove citizenship.

When applying for work or registering your child for school.
When voting, or when getting permits for home improvements/additions.
When applying for a credit card or buying a car or motorcycle.
When buying plane tickets and at the boarding areas.
When renting an apartment, house, or condo.

Citizenship does not garuantee that a person will obey our laws, but it does mean that the first step was taken toward the assimilation process has/had begun.

[Willow]

Freedom of speech is not about which people will or won't be allowed to speak freely.  It is about the government not being allowed to suppress speech.

I don't have a real problem with all the people in my country having the same free speech right.  Rights are not so much something that has been earned.  The founding fathers believed that rights are simply what is right. Gives some insight into why they are called rights, doesn't it?

[Marinakorp]

There is no God...

happy Zombie Jesus day...

[bvergeer]

ShadowDragon,

There are ways to prove citizenship.

When applying for work or registering your child for school.
When voting, or when getting permits for home improvements/additions.
When applying for a credit card or buying a car or motorcycle.
When buying plane tickets and at the boarding areas.
When renting an apartment, house, or condo.

Citizenship does not garuantee that a person will obey our laws, but it does mean that the first step was taken toward the assimilation process has/had begun.

hummmm...  I'm not a citizen of USA but I have no problem doing any of the above, with the exception of voting at a federal level.

[Momz]

Freedom of speech is not about which people will or won't be allowed to speak freely.  It is about the government not being allowed to suppress speech.

I don't have a real problem with all the people in my country having the same free speech right.  Rights are not so much something that has been earned.  The founding fathers believed that rights are simply what is right. Gives some insight into why they are called rights, doesn't it?

Carl, I'd love to agree with you, but being a child of immigrant parents (that were naturalized) I feel a bit more passionate about this issue.
We may have other issues that we don't see "eye to eye" on but I respect your right to those opinions (especially knowing that you have served this country). 

[Gryphon Rider]

Good for her that she has the courage to stand up for what she believes. If you support her right to stand on public property and declare her beliefs to the same degree that you would support the right of a Muslim to stand on public property and declare their beliefs, or a Mormon, or a Buddhist, or the membership of Westboro Baptist Church, then you support freedom of speech. Period. 

Far, far too many people in this country only support freedom of speech they agree with.

I personally have no animosity or distain for Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.
Nor do I hate Koreans, Blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Gypsies, etc.

But if we are American citizens, then we have the "freedom of speech".
If you are not a citizen,.....keep your views to yourself!

Non-citizens should not have any "rights" or receive and type of governmental assistance or even schooling until they receive citizenship.  JMHO

+1,000

I guess the US Declaration of Independence has been recently amended to read, "...all men except non-citizens of the United States of America are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

[Marinakorp]

dont confuse the Declaration of Ind.. with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.... different documents with different meanings / use.

[Willow]

Carl, I'd love to agree with you, but being a child of immigrant parents (that were naturalized) I feel a bit more passionate about this issue.
We may have other issues that we don't see "eye to eye" on but I respect your right to those opinions (especially knowing that you have served this country). 

George, being the child of the child of the child of people who were here long before Europeans graced our shores, I consider all of you to be recent immigrants.   

I'd be interested one day in hearing the logical reasons for your disagreement.  I really can't find a basis in what I know of the country's laws and history.

Honestly, I don't see eye to eye with very many people.  I don't find it to be a problem.   

[Gryphon Rider]

dont confuse the Declaration of Ind.. with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.... different documents with different meanings / use.

Okay, I suppose, then, that instead, the fourteenth amendment of the Constitution must have, itself, been amended:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

[Serk]

Observation - Right there next to the Freedom of Speech enshrined in the 1st Amendment is the Right to Bear Arms right there in the 2nd Amendment, but it's generally understood that this right is reserved for US citizens (With some exceptions for legal residents), but denied to those who are here illegally.

If we're going to extend all rights enjoyed by US citizens to anyone who happens to physically be here we need to extend ALL rights to anyone here, IMHO...

[Gryphon Rider]

Observation - Right there next to the Freedom of Speech enshrined in the 1st Amendment is the Right to Bear Arms right there in the 2nd Amendment, but it's generally understood that this right is reserved for US citizens (With some exceptions for legal residents), but denied to those who are here illegally.

If we're going to extend all rights enjoyed by US citizens to anyone who happens to physically be here we need to extend ALL rights to anyone here, IMHO...

The general understanding could be legally incorrect.  Most people driving in Alberta have an incorrect understanding of the right-of-way rules in an uncontrolled "T" intersection.

Why shouldn't a legal visitor or someone with a green card be allowed to defend themselves?

Don't even illegal immigrants have other rights, such as a right to a fair trial if they are accused of a crime?

[MP]

Observation - Right there next to the Freedom of Speech enshrined in the 1st Amendment is the Right to Bear Arms right there in the 2nd Amendment, but it's generally understood that this right is reserved for US citizens (With some exceptions for legal residents), but denied to those who are here illegally.

If we're going to extend all rights enjoyed by US citizens to anyone who happens to physically be here we need to extend ALL rights to anyone here, IMHO...

The general understanding could be legally incorrect.  Most people driving in Alberta have an incorrect understanding of the right-of-way rules in an uncontrolled "T" intersection.

Why shouldn't a legal visitor or someone with a green card be allowed to defend themselves?

Don't even illegal immigrants have other rights, such as a right to a fair trial if they are accused of a crime?

If I am visiting in Alberta, can I exercise my US freedom of speech, and call some people names?  Or will I be arrested for hate speech?  As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, you do NOT have free speech up there?  The gov't has made it against the law to free exercise there of?  I may be wrong,  but it seems I heard that.

Thx.

MP

[Serk]

We've wandered way off the original but what the heck, this is fun...

ATF form 4473, the form you have to fill out when buying a firearm from a federally licensed dealer, question 11k, which if answered "Yes" disqualifies you from buying a firearm:

Are you an alien illegally in the United States?

Right after that, question 11l with followup question 12 delves into that some legal non-Citizen residents can buy/own firearms, but not all:

Question 11.l.
An alien admitted to the UnitedStates under a nonimmigrantvisa includes, among others, persons
visiting the United States temporarily for business or pleasure, persons studying in the United States who maintain a residence abroad, and certain temporary foreign workers.
The definition does NOT include permanent resident aliens nor does it apply to nonimmigrant
aliens admitted to the United States pursuant to either the Visa Waiver Program or to regulations otherwise exempting them from visa requirements.
An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa who responds "yes" to question 11.l. must provide a response to question 12 indicating whether he/she qualifies under an exception.

Question 12. Exceptions to the Nonimmigrant Alien Response:
An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien:
(1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued by the Federal Government, a State, or local government, or an Indian tribe federally recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, which is valid and unexpired;
(2) was admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes;
(3) has received a waiver from the prohibition from the Attorney General of the United States;
(4) is an official representative of a foreign government who is accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States;
(5) is en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;
(6) is an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or
(7) is a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United
States on official law enforcement business.
Persons subject to one of these exceptions should answer "yes" to questions 11.l. and 12 and provide documentation such as a copy of the hunting license or letter granting the waiver, which must be recorded in 20.c. If the transferee (buyer) answered "yes" to this question, the licensee must complete 20.c.
The seller should verify supporting documentation provided by the purchaser and must attach a copy of the provided documentation to this ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record

(Full form 4473 from ATF if you're really bored - http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf )

So the tl;dr version is that a non-citizen MIGHT be allowed usage/possession/purchasing of a firearm in the US, but it's FAR more restricted than it is for a citizen.

[Gryphon Rider]

If I am visiting in Alberta, can I exercise my US freedom of speech, and call some people names?  Or will I be arrested for hate speech?  As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, you do NOT have free speech up there?  The gov't has made it against the law to free exercise there of?  I may be wrong,  but it seems I heard that.

Thx.

MP

If you were encouraging violence against a group identified by their ethnicity, gender, etc., in other than a private conversation, you could be charged with a crime. You can, however, stand in front of City Hall and call the Prime Minister an anal-retentive, Ken-doll-coiffed, conceited, son-of-a-mother, and you would be left alone, or even cheered on by the leader of the national opposition party.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If I am visiting in Alberta, can I exercise my US freedom of speech, and call some people names?  Or will I be arrested for hate speech?  As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, you do NOT have free speech up there?  The gov't has made it against the law to free exercise there of?  I may be wrong,  but it seems I heard that.

Thx.

MP

If you were encouraging violence against a group identified by their ethnicity, gender, etc., in other than a private conversation, you could be charged with a crime. You can, however, stand in front of City Hall and call the Prime Minister an anal-retentive, Ken-doll-coiffed, conceited, son-of-a-mother, and you would be left alone, or even cheered on by the leader of the national opposition party.

Sounds like a civilized country to me

[Serk]

If I am visiting in Alberta, can I exercise my US freedom of speech, and call some people names?  Or will I be arrested for hate speech?  As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, you do NOT have free speech up there?  The gov't has made it against the law to free exercise there of?  I may be wrong,  but it seems I heard that.

Thx.

MP

If you were encouraging violence against a group identified by their ethnicity, gender, etc., in other than a private conversation, you could be charged with a crime. You can, however, stand in front of City Hall and call the Prime Minister an anal-retentive, Ken-doll-coiffed, conceited, son-of-a-mother, and you would be left alone, or even cheered on by the leader of the national opposition party.

Sounds like a civilized country to me

[Paxton]

Generally speaking, if you are employed full-time, you have roughly about 8 hours per workday to exercise your freedom of speech.