A parent's right to decide.

[Rams]

California Legislature Passes 'Mandatory' Vaccine Bill, Sends It To The Governor

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/29/418662398/california-legislature-passes-mandatory-vaccine-bill-sends-it-to-the-governor


While I understand the public outcry about a parent's rights to decide what gets injected into their child's body, I also understand why some think everyone should be immunized.

Leaning toward the rights of parent's to decide.    Again, California leads the way at destroying rights.    
My bet is that "Big Brother" has a California birth certificate.

[G-Man]

This is a tough one.

Maybe they should make all the unvaccinated kids go to a specific school.  We've seen an increased incidence in diseases that vaccines take care of in certain areas where parents have chosen to not to vaccinate (in Ca. BTW), so maybe they should be given the option..... Vaccinate or don't, but if you don't, your child has to attend this particular school where they are no threats to those kids who can't (medically) be vaccinated.  There is a small % of kids who are allergic to the vaccines so they go unvaccinated, but the rest who are vaccinated "protect" these kids.  But if there are too many unvaccinated kids, disease can find it's way back into the communities.

[WintrSol]

I don't think it's so tough. Why should parents of child A be allowed to put child B at a greater risk of contracting a potentially deadly disease? It's a public health issue, so if you don't want to vaccinate, don't, but don't risk the public health over it - send your kids to private school or home-school.

[slider]

WE are home schooling for reasons like this...a few should not decide  for our kids...just my olpinion

[Patrick]

I don't remember parents having a choice back in the 50s/60s. We were vaccinated.

[Rams]

This is a tough one.

Maybe they should make all the unvaccinated kids go to a specific school.  We've seen an increased incidence in diseases that vaccines take care of in certain areas where parents have chosen to not to vaccinate (in Ca. BTW), so maybe they should be given the option..... Vaccinate or don't, but if you don't, your child has to attend this particular school where they are no threats to those kids who can't (medically) be vaccinated.  There is a small % of kids who are allergic to the vaccines so they go unvaccinated, but the rest who are vaccinated "protect" these kids.  But if there are too many unvaccinated kids, disease can find it's way back into the communities.

No doubt there are consequences to deciding to not be vaccinated.    I sincerely believe I've made mostly good decisions in rearing my children.   I chose to get them vaccinated but, I know folks who choose not to.   My kids were at less risk.    As for unvaccinated children attending a special school, as I understand the proposed law, the parents would be responsible for home schooling their children thus a form of protection for those kids that can not be vaccinated, seems fair to me.

[Hooter]

I don't remember parents having a choice back in the 50s/60s. We were vaccinated.

   And we are the one's they claim are living longer. Is that why?  Just sayin.

[G-Man]

This is a tough one.

Maybe they should make all the unvaccinated kids go to a specific school.  We've seen an increased incidence in diseases that vaccines take care of in certain areas where parents have chosen to not to vaccinate (in Ca. BTW), so maybe they should be given the option..... Vaccinate or don't, but if you don't, your child has to attend this particular school where they are no threats to those kids who can't (medically) be vaccinated.  There is a small % of kids who are allergic to the vaccines so they go unvaccinated, but the rest who are vaccinated "protect" these kids.  But if there are too many unvaccinated kids, disease can find it's way back into the communities.

No doubt there are consequences to deciding to not be vaccinated.    I sincerely believe I've made mostly good decisions in rearing my children.   I chose to get them vaccinated but, I know folks who choose not to.   My kids were at less risk.    As for unvaccinated children attending a special school, as I understand the proposed law, the parents would be responsible for home schooling their children thus a form of protection for those kids that can not be vaccinated, seems fair to me.

I wasn't home schooled and I don't personally know anyone who was, so that option never even entered my mind when I replied, but......... I like that idea better than herding the unvaccinated kids into a building where they can put each other and the staff at risk.

[Serk]

I used to be pro choice on this issue, but at this point, from our connections with other NICU parents after our triplets were born, I've met too many parents with kids that legitimately can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and now their kids are at risk of diseases because these Luddites won't vaccinate their kids who can be vaccinated.

I don't think there should be forced vaccinations, but I do think it being a requirement to attend public school is reasonable.

As far as other gatherings, day cares, etc, don't know that I want government involved, but a warning system of some sort so you can avoid hot beds of unvaccinated kids would be nice.

One of my older spawn's friends, who she'd been close with for years, we'd had her over many times, she'd stayed over there many times, we only recently found out are anti-vaccination, and none of the kids are vaccinated. I wish they'd had the courtesy to tell us that earlier, we still maintain friendship with them, but via electronic communications only, no more face to face visits.

And on the higher level topic of vaccinations, this sums up the topic quite nicely for me in a minute and a half: (Warning - Penn and Teller, VERY salty language!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCsEWo0Gks

[Gavin_Sons]

you need shots to prevent disease because of all the illegals coming across the borders from the south.

[signart]

you need shots to prevent disease because of all the illegals coming across the borders from the south.

You can't just "decide" to not let people do something that's illegal. That just makes too much sense, and we can't have that in this country, no sir.

[Oss]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

[Patrick]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

They are now looking at herbicides and pesticides [ namely Round-up] for the increase in Autism and Alzheimer's.  As with most things, time will tell.

[DK]

I researched this issue 3 or 4 years at the request of my daughters whose children were facing mandatory vaccination. We agreed to independently research & then discuss.

Our consensus was that it should be done as in Japan and several other countries where the vaccinations are given in several phased steps in a predetermined order and combination over a specified period of time.

Although the statistics show a drastically lower number of children who suffer vaccinated-related maladies in each of these other countries, our CDC objects to this method because they contend that too many parents would not return for subsequent vaccinations resulting in a too large population of unvaccinated children who could cause localized epidemics among not yet vaccinated children and, of course, the children of the parents not returning for the later vaccinations.

Each of our daughters advised the local authorities that their children were being vaccinated in accordance with the Japaneese method whereupon the local idiots objected. Both daughters being lawyers advised the Luddites that that was the way it was going to be done. It was made clear that the matter would be decided in court if necessary and thereafter it happened without further problem.

Related to this:  There is a little-known Federal Court Division which administers a governmentally created fund to compensate children who become victims of vaccination related disabilities. It is similar to the Black Lung Fund for miners. It is purposely kept low profile (secret) for fear of spurious claims. Lawyers who specialize in such cases exist although they are few and far between. Anyone considering a claim against the fund should seek out one of these guys and under no circumstances allow any lawyer without experience before this court to handle one of these claims without one of the specialists on board.

Our government sometime speak with forked tongue.

Dan

[Wizzard]

I remember people lining up like sheep to the slaughter for oral polio vaccine. 

[Bonzo]

As a father of an autistic adult son I looked into the whole vaccine/thimerisol/autism connection and it has been disproved. The Doctor who perpetuated it was fined and convicted of something about it in the UK and recently committed suicide.  I do believe there is an environmental issue behind this 900 fold increase in autistic diagnosis and maybe a much broader brush being used in diagnosis.
   BTW the very Liberal State of West Virginia had the Vaccine Law on the books first :http://www.dhhr.wv.gov/oeps/immunization/requirements/Documents/64-95%20Imm_FINAL_FILE_APRIL.18.2014_Interpretive_Rule.pdf

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

[G-Man]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time Yes, but vaccinations have been proven effective and safe, Thousands of studies and trials prove this

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question  Absolutely NO correlation with vaccines, other than ONE debunked "study" from England and ZERO studies since then corroborating that study's results and methods

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine It's usually an ingredient that kids are allergic to and these allergies show up when the child begins feedings.  We also vaccinate in a certain order and a certain amount in order to limit allergies.  Do bad things still happen, yes, but at an EXTREMELY lower rate than the spread of disease before vaccinations.

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision All drug components are disclosed to anyone.  Every drug comes with a "package insert" that gives the recipe, the expected adverse events, how it's dispensed, how it should be prescribed and administered, etc.  Even generics.  Check the Merk Manual or the PDR (physician's desk reference).  If the Doctor doesn't know what he's prescribing, run like hell.

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?  If it could be done differently, I'm sure it would have by now.   

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"  I do, we've pretty much eradicated that disease.  Remember, one of our Presidents died young due to lifelong battle with polio.  

[hubcapsc]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

The wiki page on vaccines talks about eggs and mercury in this section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine#Production

The wiki oral polio page talks about the risks of getting polio from
the oral form of the vaccine...

The rate of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) varies by region but is generally about 1 case per 750,000 vaccine recipients

-Mike

[G-Man]

I researched this issue 3 or 4 years at the request of my daughters whose children were facing mandatory vaccination. We agreed to independently research & then discuss.

Our consensus was that it should be done as in Japan and several other countries where the vaccinations are given in several phased steps in a predetermined order and combination over a specified period of time.

Although the statistics show a drastically lower number of children who suffer vaccinated-related maladies in each of these other countries, our CDC objects to this method because they contend that too many parents would not return for subsequent vaccinations resulting in a too large population of unvaccinated children who could cause localized epidemics among not yet vaccinated children and, of course, the children of the parents not returning for the later vaccinations.

Each of our daughters advised the local authorities that their children were being vaccinated in accordance with the Japaneese method whereupon the local idiots objected. Both daughters being lawyers advised the Luddites that that was the way it was going to be done. It was made clear that the matter would be decided in court if necessary and thereafter it happened without further problem.

Related to this:  There is a little-known Federal Court Division which administers a governmentally created fund to compensate children who become victims of vaccination related disabilities. It is similar to the Black Lung Fund for miners. It is purposely kept low profile (secret) for fear of spurious claims. Lawyers who specialize in such cases exist although they are few and far between. Anyone considering a claim against the fund should seek out one of these guys and under no circumstances allow any lawyer without experience before this court to handle one of these claims without one of the specialists on board.

Our government sometime speak with forked tongue.

Dan

But that's EXACTLY how vaccines are given HERE!  They are given in a certain order, in timed intervals.  I specifically recall this from my own kids.  They received certain vaccines in a certain order, in divided doses.  Not sure where you found info that we don't do this, but I don't believe it to be correct.

Just went to the CDC website and sure enough, there are vaccine "schedules" and not only for newborns, but for those who weren't vaccinated and need to "catch up", even for adults who weren't vaccinated.  There's even a list of all the Vaccine preventable diseases on the website.

[DK]

[quote author=DK link=topic=79344.msg776637#msg776637 date=1435683669

Our consensus was that it should be done as in Japan and several other countries where the vaccinations are given in several phased steps in a predetermined order and combination over a specified period of time.

Although the statistics show a drastically lower number of children who suffer vaccinated-related maladies in each of these other countries, our CDC objects to this method because they contend that too many parents would not return for subsequent vaccinations resulting in a too large population of unvaccinated children who could cause localized epidemics among not yet vaccinated children and, of co

Dan


G Man,

My research was done in 2009 when states and even some local boards of health mandated certain vaccinations at birth.

I was not aware until your post as to how much the requirements have been relaxed and changed to recommendations. Everything I checked while doing a quick review after reading your response disclosed recently reworked regulations. Hepatitis B seems to be the only vaccination currently strongly recommended at birth.

The following link is to respected-source documentation of the vaccination policies of Japan as opposed to the U.S. together with the respective statistics of vaccination disability events to children of each country. ( I'm certain that this study is largely influenced by the apparently superseded U.S. policies and requirements)


http://www.vaclib.org/basic/japanusa.htm

I submit that we need look no further beyond the existence and purpose of the Vaccination Court to support the proposition that a problem exists or at has existed in the immediate past.

Dan

[G-Man]

[quote author=DK link=topic=79344.msg776637#msg776637 date=1435683669

Our consensus was that it should be done as in Japan and several other countries where the vaccinations are given in several phased steps in a predetermined order and combination over a specified period of time.

Although the statistics show a drastically lower number of children who suffer vaccinated-related maladies in each of these other countries, our CDC objects to this method because they contend that too many parents would not return for subsequent vaccinations resulting in a too large population of unvaccinated children who could cause localized epidemics among not yet vaccinated children and, of co

Dan


G Man,

My research was done in 2009 when states and even some local boards of health mandated certain vaccinations at birth.

I was not aware until your post as to how much the requirements have been relaxed and changed to recommendations. Everything I checked while doing a quick review after reading your response disclosed recently reworked regulations. Hepatitis B seems to be the only vaccination currently strongly recommended at birth.

The following link is to respected-source documentation of the vaccination policies of Japan as opposed to the U.S. together with the respective statistics of vaccination disability events to children of each country. ( I'm certain that this study is largely influenced by the apparently superseded U.S. policies and requirements)


http://www.vaclib.org/basic/japanusa.htm

I submit that we need look no further beyond the existence and purpose of the Vaccination Court to support the proposition that a problem exists or at has existed in the immediate past.

Dan

I'm still baffled by this.  Even when I did my (brief) pediatric rotation in 1998 during my residency, there was a clear schedule of vaccinations and that some were given in divided doses.  Both of my kids followed this and they are 20 and 15 years old now.  We have these long yellow cards for both of them with the vaccinations and the dates they were given.  Some given on the same day (usually MMR measles mumps and rubella) and most have multiple dates next to them indicating the number of doses for that vaccine.  The cards also have their weights and heights on them and we had to present these cards when enrolling in school and I even think passports (not positive on that last one).

BTW, when was the last time you heard of a kid having the mumps?  Had to be grade school for me and it was several kids who got it back then.   Nope, wait, sorry, we did get a letter to the house when the daughter was in middle school that there was one child with mumps. Don't know the background or history, though.  Not a bad record.

Either way, Vaccines are good, no vaccines are bad. 

[PAVALKER]

The issue of kids being around other kids, vaccinated or not,  is not just a school thing.  Kids go to public places, parks, malls etc.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The issue of kids being around other kids, vaccinated or not,  is not just a school thing.  Kids go to public places, parks, malls etc.

Like Disneyland 

[BF]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

yes and it wasn't the new fangled one with a gun. It was the kind where they took a needle and scratched your arm and then put the vaccine in the wound.

[Serk]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

Smallpox, I'm one of the youngest people I've met that has the scar, I got it as an infant in the early 70's because my dad was being deployed overseas (To the wilds of England).

Evidently I was quite the wiggly baby, and they used the gun thing, I've got 5 of 'em in a cluster. I was told I was wriggling around so much it activated the gun that many times almost instantly.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

Smallpox, I'm one of the youngest people I've met that has the scar, I got it as an infant in the early 70's because my dad was being deployed overseas (To the wilds of England).

Evidently I was quite the wiggly baby, and they used the gun thing, I've got 5 of 'em in a cluster. I was told I was wriggling around so much it activated the gun that many times almost instantly.

ALERT thread high jack coming. When I was in boot camp we were all lined up in a hallway waiting for shots. One guy flinched and the gun sliced him pretty good. The guy next to me saw it and fainted like a sack of potatoes. They drug him off and continued down the line like nothing happened. 

[Serk]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

Smallpox, I'm one of the youngest people I've met that has the scar, I got it as an infant in the early 70's because my dad was being deployed overseas (To the wilds of England).

Evidently I was quite the wiggly baby, and they used the gun thing, I've got 5 of 'em in a cluster. I was told I was wriggling around so much it activated the gun that many times almost instantly.

ALERT thread high jack coming. When I was in boot camp we were all lined up in a hallway waiting for shots. One guy flinched and the gun sliced him pretty good. The guy next to me saw it and fainted like a sack of potatoes. They drug him off and continued down the line like nothing happened. 

...and that's how they decide who gets to go to the Air Force instead...

(Disclaimer - I was raised by the Air Force)

[The emperor has no clothes]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

Smallpox, I'm one of the youngest people I've met that has the scar, I got it as an infant in the early 70's because my dad was being deployed overseas (To the wilds of England).

Evidently I was quite the wiggly baby, and they used the gun thing, I've got 5 of 'em in a cluster. I was told I was wriggling around so much it activated the gun that many times almost instantly.

ALERT thread high jack coming. When I was in boot camp we were all lined up in a hallway waiting for shots. One guy flinched and the gun sliced him pretty good. The guy next to me saw it and fainted like a sack of potatoes. They drug him off and continued down the line like nothing happened. 

...and that's how they decide who gets to go to the Air Force instead...

(Disclaimer - I was raised by the Air Force)

No I think they drug him over to the Marines boot camp next door in San Diego 

[Hoser]

If you are my age, You may remember the polio epidemic that swept through the country in the fifties and sixties, followed by the thalidomide fiasco, which resulted in some child fatalities and deformed births in my small community in Kansas.  When the vaccines were available, I know of no parents refusing the new medications, or the government making them mandatory.  They may have, but folks were different then, and the authorities were also.  People were cheering in the streets when the medications became available.  It didn't take years for them to make their mind up and many lives were saved that wouldn't be today.  Hoser 

[The emperor has no clothes]

If you are my age, You may remember the polio epidemic that swept through the country in the fifties and sixties, followed by the thalidomide fiasco, which resulted in some child fatalities and deformed births in my small community in Kansas.  When the vaccines were available, I know of no parents refusing the new medications, or the government making them mandatory.  They may have, but folks were different then, and the authorities were also.  People were cheering in the streets when the medications became available.  It didn't take years for them to make their mind up and many lives were saved that wouldn't be today.  Hoser 

I think that may be part of the problem. Most of the parents now a days that are in their 20's and 30's have never seen any kind of childhood diseases.

[Bonzo]

Gary, There have been several Mumps outbreaks recently , one at Fordham University, Most of the kids affected had been vaccinated.   It seems a later booster might be needed.

[Lyn-Del]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
   **snipped**
Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

Thalidomide was administered at the request of the woman who wanted to avoid morning sickness, or so I was told.

My ex-husband, I was told, developed some polio symptoms after we divorced.  The explanation I received was that apparently he was in very early stages of polio when the vaccine was administered, and it arrested the illness for almost 50 years.  Maybe someone here has a better explanation.

[Jess from VA]

Worse than regular boot camp shots, as a mobility team member tagged for deployment within days (Desert Storm), I was required to get all overseas, Middle Eastern, and regular shots all at one time.  I had already had all of them for two tours over there (spread out over a few weeks), but was back in the US and most everything was expired.  First in line, they loaded up both arms (malaria, both halves of yellow fever, DPT, tetanus and several others).  I was told to have a seat, and did.  Next thing I know I am being picked off the floor drooling all over myself, and told  Hey Captain, you're setting a bad example for the rest of the team, as they dragged me behind a curtain and fed me orange juice and soda crackers (yum).  Well excuuuuse me.

I never had a needle aversion or any other trouble with shots.  When all that crap hits you at the same time, you pass out.  Sorry.  I wasn't right for 24 hours (the normal half dose of yellow fever gives you a fever for several hours to half day all by itself).  Of course, we were not deployed as our SAC/15th AF mission was nukes.  Maybe we should have been.

I see both sides of the issue of child immunizations.  I got all of them ..... and look how I turned out.  

I learned early on a good shot giver with a needle was far better than the gun ever was.

[J.Mencalice]

One of the glaring accomplishments of our great social experiment has been the benefits of the emergence of the concept of "public health departments/administrations" across the country.

Without the emergence, promotion, and implementation of policies and practices, we'd still all be dying of the simplest of diseases and life expectancy would still be somewhere around 45-50 years of age.

For it to work, however, everyone needs to buy into the belief that the betterment of the society at large is the ultimate goal.  If you think that's socialism in action, you are correct; but if your kid dies of typhoid fever, then all bets are off and you'd have been happy for him/her to have be a little socialist and alive than to be so cursed independent and dead.

Immunize your kids for Christ's sake and give them a fighting chance.  This science is good, solid, and usually beats the odds hands down.

[Robert]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

I am totally with Oss on this one, WHY are we addressing the loss of rights and tough decisions when we are not addressing the safety of the vaccine? If the vaccine was proved safe then there would be no problem and all would make the choice for vaccine.

I find this discussion troubling not because of any validity of the any of the arguments but because we are worried about health and safety of a

vaccine that instead of saying suck it up and  mandating new laws, the government should be saying lets make the best vaccine we can and lets be

transparent about it. So we get a double whammy shoved down our throats and a loss of freedom, dignity, and turning neighbors into villains. What

happened to public good in light of all the medical advances we have made. Is the government telling us they cannot make a good vaccine or are

they telling us they would rather take away our rights to calm our fears? Has it been so long we have forgotten how to be a free open society? We

can research AIDS and we cannot provide a safe, effective, transparent vaccine, WTH?

[Hooter]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
   **snipped**
Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

Thalidomide was administered at the request of the woman who wanted to avoid morning sickness, or so I was told.

My ex-husband, I was told, developed some polio symptoms after we divorced.  The explanation I received was that apparently he was in very early stages of polio when the vaccine was administered, and it arrested the illness for almost 50 years.  Maybe someone here has a better explanation.

Sugar cube was the way I got my polio vaccine. I also have the little round scar on my upper left arm, I grew up in the 50s. Vaccines keep kids / people from having the nasties of years ago and prevent the wide spread of a disease to others that aren't innoculated. For those of us that have had the mumps, measels, chicken pox they aren't fun. This system is in place so we avoid epidemics again. But, as I see it, don't want your kids protected be prepared to watch them suffer with some of this crap. You have the right as a parent / adult to bring the crap on to yourself but you should protect your kids! To each his own.

[Oss]

Just to clarify I am not Against vaccinating as I had them and my kids had them

I understand the tremendous cost of developing a drug or vaccine and it is not a
perfect system

But the government does not appear TO ME to be particularly interested in looking for scientific links to
substances that cause children to suffer needlessly in vaccines that are mandated and into finding
alternatives that are safe for kids

And I am not suggesting autism is caused by vaccines but the astronomical explosion of cases must be met and probed.  The autism spectrum is very broad and growing  Can it really be just its been missed all these years in people?   Is it environmental or what,  and how can we help these  children  we love develop to the best of their ability so they can lead meaningful (to them at least) lives

For instance  for almost a decade Now we have Monsanto forcing GMO corn out there,  Your beef is fed GMO  corn the month before slaughter unless certified free range organic   Its in your cereal etc,  MOST civilized countries ban it.   Stuff the body cant digest is not optimal  Does anyone really think your body
is meant to eat it?  Just like saccharine or nutrasweet   The government looks after what it wants and it aint us

Not the USA we are OWNED by big agribusiness plain and simple  Next they will try to get by the organic certifications just wait they are already working on it

[G-Man]

Can you still find your vaccination scar on your arm?   I have mine. 

When I was a kid in the '50's, every kid I knew had one of those scars on your upper arm/shoulder. 

I remember. 

[G-Man]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

I am totally with Oss on this one, WHY are we addressing the loss of rights and tough decisions when we are not addressing the safety of the vaccine? If the vaccine was proved safe then there would be no problem and all would make the choice for vaccine.

I find this discussion troubling not because of any validity of the any of the arguments but because we are worried about health and safety of a

vaccine that instead of saying suck it up and  mandating new laws, the government should be saying lets make the best vaccine we can and lets be Government doesn't make anything, remember.

transparent about it. So we get a double whammy shoved down our throats and a loss of freedom, dignity, and turning neighbors into villains. What

happened to public good in light of all the medical advances we have made. Is the government telling us they cannot make a good vaccine or are

they telling us they would rather take away our rights to calm our fears? Has it been so long we have forgotten how to be a free open society? We

can research AIDS and we cannot provide a safe, effective, transparent vaccine, WTH?

I don't know where you are getting this from.  Transparency??  There is full transparency when it comes to drugs today.  If you are taking a drug, or going to take a drug, YOU need to simply ask questions.  Simple internet searches will provide you with anything you want to know about a drug. The PDR (physician's desk reference) is a huge book that has the package inserts of all drugs in them.  Nothing is hidden.  While it is the responsibility of the physician and pharmacist to offer all information, it's up to the consumer/patient to ask the questions they may have. 

So much misinformation out there about medicine and drugs and that's a shame.  One BS study and very smart people still refer to it more than 10 years later.  I've also read on this board that drug companies pay doctors to prescribe and that drug companies want you to remain sick for life.  Such silliness.  BTW, did you hear about the CURE for certain forms of Hepatitis that the evil drug companies came up with, instead of treating those patients for life?