Just an observation of this great club......

[Daddie O]

Oss, those who fought for the confederacy were not fighting FOR this country, they were fighting AGAINST this country.  They were defeated by the US Army.  The confederacy was the domestic enemy they swore an oath to protect our country against.

I'm not sure what constitution you read, but the one the founding fathers wrote did not guarantee slavery.  The words "slave" and "slavery" do not appear in the constitution.

[baldo]

Ah, back to your I'm so proud to be a bigot I bought the t-shirt garbage.  We don't have to attempt to be on moral high ground, we are already there.  Here is a little tidbit for your education about the confederacy you are so proud of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcy7qV-BGF4

Now tell me more about the bastion of liberal nonsense known as West Point has it all wrong 

Daddy-o, let's keep this on topic. This issue would create a 10 page thread on it's own, achieving nothing. The equivalent of he said, she said.....

[Oss]

Here are 3 Daddy0

Article I Section 2  and Section 9

Article IV Section 2

Bottom line it was a compromise and thats why the reference to the end date of 1808 on the slave issue

To say slavery is not in the constitution is therefore disingenuous,  it is a lie

Here is a nice article by a smart woman that goes into it better than I could do justice
I always loved reading about the people who were living at the early days of our country
They were messed up just like us, but they had something lost in our time, the ability to
write and communicate in a civil manner.  (Duels notwithstanding)


http://ashbrook.org/publications/respub-v6n1-boyd/

As to the right of the State to leave  I refer you to this quote
       We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter, or abolish it.

[Willow]

... nor anyone who thinks women should not be able to vote

Careful, Evan.  I know a woman who frequents this board that thinks women voting is a problem.   

[Oss]

Hey my wife cancels my votes all the time

But I still think women should be able to vote

And be able to drive a car or talk to a man without being stoned or beheaded

Would love to hear universal condemnation of that

[MP]

Hey my wife cancels my votes all the time

But I still think women should be able to vote

And be able to drive a car or talk to a man without being stoned or beheaded

Would love to hear universal condemnation of that

Far easier to condemn us, for not being PC, than it is to condemn those beheading Christians on the beach.  Post after post after post, telling us all how bad we all are.

[Pappy!]

While I fully understand the fact that the Muslim joke was indeed a joke you have to wonder why it is so easy to have Muslims be at center stage in a joke.  
Maybe if I heard more about how pissed off the mainstream Muslim is about those in their religion beheading, burning, drowning, hanging, etc. those who differ from them the jokes would taper off and the needle on the respect meter would go up.

Insert sound of crickets chirping here.......

Am thinking that the Netherlands and Australia got tired of waiting.....or listening to the crickets...one or the other.

The way I think about it is that I will give anyone a chance until they prove me wrong. Am still at Reagan's "Trust but verify" stage I guess.
Here is the point where DO will go out of his way to call me a racist (again) while ignoring his chances in the second sentence.


Edit - On the topic of another section in the forum. On the ADVRider site, down at the bottom, they have a section called "Head Explody" which is reserved for threads like the ones that get deleted.

[Moonshot_1]

While I fully understand the fact that the Muslim joke was indeed a joke you have to wonder why it is so easy to have Muslims be at center stage in a joke.  
Maybe if I heard more about how pissed off the mainstream Muslim is about those in their religion beheading, burning, drowning, hanging, etc. those who differ from them the jokes would taper off and the needle on the respect meter would go up.

Insert sound of crickets chirping here.......

Am thinking that the Netherlands and Australia got tired of waiting.....or listening to the crickets...one or the other.

The way I think about it is that I will give anyone a chance until they prove me wrong. Am still at Reagan's "Trust but verify" stage I guess.
Here is the point where DO will go out of his way to call me a racist (again) while ignoring his chances in the second sentence.


Edit - On the topic of another section in the forum. On the ADVRider site, down at the bottom, they have a section called "Head Explody" which is reserved for threads like the ones that get deleted.

Have had similar thoughts on Islam as well. The glaring reality of the lack of institutional condemnation of terrorism by Islam, Islamic clerics, and Muslims in general speaks for itself. Often we see celebrations, rejoicing, and support of such acts but rarely, if ever, an institutional condemnation.

And as you suggest, if this would happen the jokes would cease and there would be a newfound respect for the religion.

But it ain't gonna happen.

We are witnessing a suicidal culture that has found technology.

I look into the future and the next couple generations to follow, and wonder what kind of history we will be making and wonder if there will be anyone to read it.

[Patrick]

Many who talk about slavery in this country do not know about slavery in this country.

Oss has said of how slaves were handled in Africa

There was no slavery in this countries beginning. Indenture and slavery seem to have been used as one and the same. Indenture was a common way for poor folks to get here, both black and white or any other color. [ we didn't know we were all the same back then]
 
The first slave came about thru a court trial of a free black landowner against one of
'his' indentures. The landowner of course won and the situation/practice spread like wildfire.
 
The northeast states had abolished slavery by the late 18th century [ or very early 19th, records conflict]. There were many free black landowners.
 
The feds abolished their importation in 1808 which led to southern slave owners being left to their own devices to increase the numbers of their 'properties'. We all know this was accomplished in a couple different ways.
 
Southern land owners at the time were democrat which also meant the KKK was an organization of democrats.
 
Blacks then knew this and the early black politicians [ there were quite a few] were all republicans.
 
Courts had ruled that blacks were 3/5 of a human being. Lincoln even believed that correct.
 
Lincoln did not like blacks [ he didn't like slavery but would have lived with it if necessary to preserve the country] and had $8 or 9 million set aside to send all blacks to South America [ now Panama] for resettlement. I'm not sure how that would have gone over with the freemen, but, it sure would have changed history.

Reconstruction didn't go so well.

Many slaves stayed with their prior owners.

Have blacks been treated badly in the past, I think so.

I'll stop there.

[Skinhead]

It was only a joke!

It was.

It was only a joke. 

Wasn't it?

It's always a joke isn't it.  (We know it isn't) But the jokes are always aimed at someone who doesn't look like you (color), vote like you or pray like you. 

It's just a way for the ignorant among us to spew their hatred for / towards a group of people they don't like.  But once posted, the damage has been done. And that is always the intention from the start.  The poster has only one thing on his mind.  Trying to call out / get a reaction from someone who doesn't share the same twisted thoughts.   

It's like sending up the Bat Signal.  But on the Valkyrie site (now it's motorcycle related) another common disclaimer like "it's just a joke".  The signal is "y'all come join in on the fun, we're pickin' on the moooslums today".

Okay, so now every bigot who see's the post has to climb on the bandwagon to join in the twisted fellowship & back slapping.  And when it has gotten totally out of control, someone points out the inappropriateness of said joke and all the bigots step back and cry "it's only a joke".  And that's supposed to make it OK?!

Now the attack on the spoiler begins.

So now it's the fault of DaddieO who called out the haters and bigots that start the pot stirring and spew the vile, hate filled toxic and caustic language.  Not the fault of the bigot who started the whole mess.   Not the fault of those who contributed to the ongoing hate towards the subject of the day...Muslims.

So now the babies start crying..........

BAN DaddieO because he called us out and hurt our feelings!

BAN DaddieO because we don't want him raining on our parade.  We just want to be left alone to wallow in our hate and make fun of those we don't like!  And sit back giggling and drinking our Koolaid and seeing the reaction it caused and thinking how funny we are.

So DaddieO is a toxic individual?  Really?  Now that's a JOKE!  There are a lot of toxic members here that should have been banned a long time ago but haven't.  Some of them posted in the Muslim Joke thread and some to this new thread.  They get away with it daily.  Their posts or threads they start  almost never get deleted. 

DaddieO called out the bigots and haters in plain language so all could understand.  Instead of owning up and apologizing, you declare war on the messenger and want him shot. 

Because,

It was Just a joke...............

I think YOU missed your own point!  It was (is) only a joke.  Telling a joke, no matter how off color, does not automatically make you a bigot or a racist.  It makes you someone with a sense of humor.  Get over yourselves and stop labeling people based on a joke.  Learn to see the humor in life instead of taking offense.

Biologically speaking, there is no such thing as race.  Race is a social construct.  A racist is a person using social construct to deem a population (usually ethnic group) as morally, intellectually, or physically inferior to another, and to treat said population differently (discriminate) based on the idea that everyone in that ethnic group is the same.

You left out disagreeing with the idiot currently inhabiting our Whitehouse, that's what the labelers are calling a racist.

[Xtracho]

Had the subject of the joke in the deleted thread been Christian it would have been OK with that lot so quick to conclude we are all bigots. They are cherry pickers of the worst kind.

[BF]

It was only a joke!

It was.

It was only a joke. 

Wasn't it?

It's always a joke isn't it.  (We know it isn't) But the jokes are always aimed at someone who doesn't look like you (color), vote like you or pray like you. 

It's just a way for the ignorant among us to spew their hatred for / towards a group of people they don't like.  But once posted, the damage has been done. And that is always the intention from the start.  The poster has only one thing on his mind.  Trying to call out / get a reaction from someone who doesn't share the same twisted thoughts.   

It's like sending up the Bat Signal.  But on the Valkyrie site (now it's motorcycle related) another common disclaimer like "it's just a joke".  The signal is "y'all come join in on the fun, we're pickin' on the moooslums today".

Okay, so now every bigot who see's the post has to climb on the bandwagon to join in the twisted fellowship & back slapping.  And when it has gotten totally out of control, someone points out the inappropriateness of said joke and all the bigots step back and cry "it's only a joke".  And that's supposed to make it OK?!

Now the attack on the spoiler begins.

So now it's the fault of DaddieO who called out the haters and bigots that start the pot stirring and spew the vile, hate filled toxic and caustic language.  Not the fault of the bigot who started the whole mess.   Not the fault of those who contributed to the ongoing hate towards the subject of the day...Muslims.

So now the babies start crying..........

BAN DaddieO because he called us out and hurt our feelings!

BAN DaddieO because we don't want him raining on our parade.  We just want to be left alone to wallow in our hate and make fun of those we don't like!  And sit back giggling and drinking our Koolaid and seeing the reaction it caused and thinking how funny we are.

So DaddieO is a toxic individual?  Really?  Now that's a JOKE!  There are a lot of toxic members here that should have been banned a long time ago but haven't.  Some of them posted in the Muslim Joke thread and some to this new thread.  They get away with it daily.  Their posts or threads they start  almost never get deleted. 

DaddieO called out the bigots and haters in plain language so all could understand.  Instead of owning up and apologizing, you declare war on the messenger and want him shot. 

Because,

It was Just a joke...............

And another one goes on the ignore list.   

[MP]

While I fully understand the fact that the Muslim joke was indeed a joke you have to wonder why it is so easy to have Muslims be at center stage in a joke.  
Maybe if I heard more about how pissed off the mainstream Muslim is about those in their religion beheading, burning, drowning, hanging, etc. those who differ from them the jokes would taper off and the needle on the respect meter would go up.

Insert sound of crickets chirping here.......

Am thinking that the Netherlands and Australia got tired of waiting.....or listening to the crickets...one or the other.

The way I think about it is that I will give anyone a chance until they prove me wrong. Am still at Reagan's "Trust but verify" stage I guess.
Here is the point where DO will go out of his way to call me a racist (again) while ignoring his chances in the second sentence.


Edit - On the topic of another section in the forum. On the ADVRider site, down at the bottom, they have a section called "Head Explody" which is reserved for threads like the ones that get deleted.

News showed millions of Muslims all over the world celebrating in the streets when they learned of the 9-11 attacks.  But, after about 12 hours, they magically disappeared!  The PC cops got to them!

Here is just one link to actual news casts of the street celebrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE

If you google it, you can come up with MANY more.

So, don't tell me that only just a tiny radical fraction of Muslims think the same way.

MP

[3fan4life]

Steve and Baldo, I appreciate your posts. 

Get A Room!

[Alien]

What do you call a cow with no legs?  Ground beef.  Now, that's a joke! 

Ride Safe,

Alien

[Gavin_Sons]

What do you call a cow with no legs?  Ground beef.  Now, that's a joke! 

Ride Safe,

Alien

You just offended every person from India. 

[Jopson]

What do you call a cow with no legs?  Ground beef.  Now, that's a joke! 

Ride Safe,

Alien

You just offended every person from India. 

And farmers, we detest vile, hate filled jokes like that.

[Gavin_Sons]

What do you call a cow with no legs?  Ground beef.  Now, that's a joke! 

Ride Safe,

Alien

You just offended every person from India. 

And farmers, we detest vile, hate filled jokes like that.

where is the outrage for the poor defenseless, legless cows? 

[Jopson]

Don't worry Gavin_Sons, some idiot from PETA will be along any minute now.....

[six2go #152]

I think this whole thread needs to be transferred over to the "Ever notice how some folks have to get the last word in?" thread. 

[baldo]

Don't worry Gavin_Sons, some idiot from PETA will be along any minute now.....

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1652

[Warlock]

2015 the year ever thing offended everbody

[Patrick]

Muslims celebrating after 9/11 ?  I've told the story before about getting caught in the near aftermath of that day. There is a big muslim population at the colleges in Buffalo [ I'm not far from there] and the muslim students were dancing and celebrating in the streets that day !
Are we really supposed to feel sorry or show respect for them, well, not me.

[Oss]

They were on tv dancing in Newark and burning our flag as well

Six2go I have no objection to Admin sending the threads into my ever notice thread

How much bandwidth would be needed for that to be a separate board anyway
even if called OH NOT THIS AGAIN BOARD

[old2soon]

Muslims celebrating after 9/11 ?  I've told the story before about getting caught in the near aftermath of that day. There is a big muslim population at the colleges in Buffalo [ I'm not far from there] and the muslim students were dancing and celebrating in the streets that day !
Are we really supposed to feel sorry or show respect for them, well, not me.

Kinda like when Saigon fell? Need to go back to the tapes and deport the revelers that were so happy after 9/11.  RIDE SAFE.

[Gryphon Rider]

Like I said earlier, I saw the original thread and about a page of responses to it, and saw how it turned into a bunch of yuck.  I was one of the people who flagged it to the moderators with a message something to the effect of, "This entire thread has no redeeming value."  While my message didn't ask that the thread be deleted, the implication was that I thought it should be deleted or locked or some other kind of action should be taken.  Here are some of my thoughts:

1.  The joke may or may not have been written with bigoted intent, but wasn't actually bigoted if you think about it.  I did a quick Google search for the joke, and the earliest appearance of it (or one very similar) that I could find was posted on July 29th, here (contains the F word).  I don't think it's bigoted to say that someone of faith Y, operating a bookstore that is obviously in support of faith Y, would get upset at someone who, after seeing the content of the bookstore, would ask for a book that is specifically intolerant of people of faith Y.  The intensity of the storekeeper's response says more about his state of mind and the level of offence he perceived than about his faith.

2.  Let's assume that the joke actually was bigoted.  When someone does something that is offensive, it is always better to point out the offence as being offensive, than to label the offender as offensive.  Doing the first is discussing ideas.  Doing the second is a personal attack that judges a person's heart.  This rarely leads to the offender rethinking his position or actions, even if the declaration about him is true.  Ad hominem attacks don't lead to solutions.

3.  I don't think the way to make an offensive joke better is to tell a bunch of jokes that offend everyone else, so that we (or in this case, our faiths) are all equally smeared.

4.  I don't think that for jokes to be funny, they automatically have to denigrate the dignity of someone else, or even oneself.  Humour can certainly be found in stories (jokes) that have race or gender or faith or nationality as a key part of the story, but it doesn't have to depend on trampling on that race, gender, etc.

5.  I know that many here don't share my view, but I don't find humour in stories or situations that have ugliness (violence, foul language, bigotry, etc.) at their core.  So while I didn't find the joke in question bigoted, I didn't find it funny.  Many will say that means I don't have a sense of humour.  I say it means I find humour in different things than they do.

[crow]

Actions speak louder than words, just not as often....

[G-Man]

..........I find it hypocritical that those who think I should be banned for calling members racists or bigots are the same people that call me a wide variety of names.

That's because you have no idea what the EFF you are talking about when it comes racism or bigotry.  You've thrown around those "names" as you call call them with ease.  I call them what some use to think themselves morally or intellectually superior to others, which by definition is BIGOTRY. 

You called me a racist, yet you knew absolutely nothing about me, about my life, my profession, my education, my beliefs, etc.  All you knew is that I disagreed with you about the president (because anyone who disagrees with him hates black people) or about a racial issue (and anyone disagreeing with the left on minority issues has to be racist).  So because I disagreed with you, I am racist.

Since the left likes to get their information from comedians..... here's how Black people feel about race........ It's the media!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

[G-Man]

Think about this for a moment.  I call racist people racist.  

Then you must be looking into a mirror when doing so.

[G-Man]

Biologically speaking, there is no such thing as race.  Race is a social construct.  A racist is a person using social construct to deem a population (usually ethnic group) as morally, intellectually, or physically inferior to another, and to treat said population differently (discriminate) based on the idea that everyone in that ethnic group is the same.

Guess you were looking into the mirror, especially when you wrote this one.   

[Patrick]

We'll never change a mind of anyone like that. They have convinced themselves they are superior to everyone and like to mention it.  There are just some people that never think they are wrong and don't need to listen to anyone. The only reason they have to look in a mirror is to keep from cutting themselves while shaving.

[DirtyDan]

Jumping in again here



Racist ???

This IS the group with the rebel battle flag

Freedom of speech begins with go &!:@ off

If someone can't handle it they should leave

This board or this country

Some people should get some thicker skin

Dan

[dreamaker]

I have a question! First, allot of interesting input, but what are we, what have we, or what will we accomplish from all this. Have we learned anything, have we solved anything yet.  Is it time to put this a to bed and play nice?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have a question! First, allot of interesting input, but what are we, what have we, or what will we accomplish from all this. Have we learned anything, have we solved anything yet.  Is it time to put this a to bed and play nice?

Hell no ! This should rage on for days so that every last member is pissed off. . (If you're not sure I'm being sarcastic)

[DirtyDan]

Sometimes it's good too let some steam out......lest it simmer

If a small spark starts a big fire it's the fuel to blame not the spark

Dan

[Willow]

Sometimes it's good too let some steam out......lest it simmer

If a small spark starts a big fire it's the fuel to blame not the spark  

Whoa!  That's deep, Dan.  Would you attribute that depth to your much learning or just to your racially superior genetics?  

So here's a question for us.  An expert has declared that racism is believing that a race (or ethnic group) is physically, intellectually or morally inferior.  Are the pygmies physically inferior to the much taller (on the average, of course) Watusi?  If so, are the folks that are unable to acknowledge that somehow more brilliant than others or just mentally myopic?  

[_Sheffjs_]

Sadly, this argument will probably play out more and more in American culture as time goes on.  

I just can't agree with this liberal left.  

[GiG]

The Watusi are superior, they won the dance-off with the way far-est cool dance moves...




I know this makes me a pygmy bigot and white kids dancing racist and all kinds of mean nasty evil things...  

[DirtyDan]

Thank you willow I do try

For many its the inability to see things from outside Themselves

Movie.  Con air,,,,,,definition of irony singing leonard skynnard on a distressed airplane

Irony 2 rebel flag flyers complaining about. Bigiotry

Superiority is determined by survival

There was. Deep reson I put that patch on. Its funny on it's face.....its also deep.

How deep ?

Down to the mohorovitchic discontinuity.....where the crust turns ton mantle

Dan

[Moonshot_1]

I have a question! First, allot of interesting input, but what are we, what have we, or what will we accomplish from all this. Have we learned anything, have we solved anything yet.  Is it time to put this a to bed and play nice?

How can we solve anything if we "put this to bed"? If we put this to bed we'll never know if we could have solved anything. WE WOULD NEVER KNOW!!

This could lead to WORLD PEACE! BUT NOOOOOOoooooooo, "we hafta put dis to bed"
WORLD PEACE DAMMIT! WORLD PEACE! An accomplishment within our grasp! And you would have that opportunity just go "phsssst" for wanting people to play nice.

And we have learned something in all this. We've learned that "phsssst" is not a real word. At least not yet. That is something we can accomplish.