A traitor has died

[98valk]

how many POWs suffered or died because of Morley Safer?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok I give. How many ?

[MP]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

[hubcapsc]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

[MP]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

Did you read my link to the story?  If so, you can see that all he mentioned was the burning.  Not the WHY. ie, fighters using those for fighting, tunnels, killing US soldiers.  Morley ignored ALL of that, and JUST talked about US burning down a village, ignoring it was a base for fighters killing us.

Traitor?  Subjective.  You make the call.  No more subjective than Bergdal.  Some of us think desertion, and going over to the other side is a traitor.  A number in the current Liberal Administration think he is a hero, and have his folks over for a tet-a tet on the front lawn of the WH.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

Did you read my link to the story?  If so, you can see that all he mentioned was the burning.  Not the WHY. ie, fighters using those for fighting, tunnels, killing US soldiers.  Morley ignored ALL of that, and JUST talked about US burning down a village, ignoring it was a base for fighters killing us.

Traitor?  Subjective.  You make the call.  No more subjective than Bergdal.  Some of us think desertion, and going over to the other side is a traitor.  A number in the current Liberal Administration think he is a hero, and have his folks over for a tet-a tet on the front lawn of the WH.

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

[98valk]

http://www.historynet.com/what-really-happened-at-cam-ne.htm


https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/treatment-american-pows-north-vietnam

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=23857689

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Prisoners_of_War_during_the_Vietnam_War

The aim of the torture was usually not acquiring military information.[10] Rather, it was to break the will of the prisoners, both individually and as a group.[10][12] The goal of the North Vietnamese was to get written or recorded statements from the prisoners that criticized U.S. conduct of the war and praised how the North Vietnamese treated them.[10] Such POW statements would be viewed as a propaganda victory in the battle to sway world and U.S. domestic opinion against the U.S. war effort.

such as what morley reported piece meal about the conduct of the war.

I have worked with some Nam vets over the yrs they are all retired now. The first I ever met told the stories of him and his patrols going into the villages. He said they never knew if they would be attacked or not. one day they are all friendly, next day one of them has a grenade and tosses it at them, etc., etc. or they get up in the morning and the village is empty, they would high tail it out of there cause the mortars were coming, etc., etc.

[scooperhsd]

If you haven't - you really need to read "When Hell was in Session" - about the treatment of our POWs under the North Vietnamese.

[Atl-Jerry]

A little disappointed, thought maybe Hanoi Jane got her just dues.

[Oss]

that was my hope as well

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

A little disappointed, thought maybe Hanoi Jane got her just dues.

Yep

[MP]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

Did you read my link to the story?  If so, you can see that all he mentioned was the burning.  Not the WHY. ie, fighters using those for fighting, tunnels, killing US soldiers.  Morley ignored ALL of that, and JUST talked about US burning down a village, ignoring it was a base for fighters killing us.

Traitor?  Subjective.  You make the call.  No more subjective than Bergdal.  Some of us think desertion, and going over to the other side is a traitor.  A number in the current Liberal Administration think he is a hero, and have his folks over for a tet-a tet on the front lawn of the WH.

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

I am not calling him a traitor.  Just referencing for you why some might think so. 

Traitor or not?  As someone once told me,  Perspective.

[hubcapsc]

He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?



Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."



Does that make him a traitor ?

I wasn't going after that angle... we should see what he saw...
He shouldn't lie... but if he had been in Dresden in 1945 would he
have said that WWII was all about boiling children in water towers?

-Mike

[Patrick]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

Did you read my link to the story?  If so, you can see that all he mentioned was the burning.  Not the WHY. ie, fighters using those for fighting, tunnels, killing US soldiers.  Morley ignored ALL of that, and JUST talked about US burning down a village, ignoring it was a base for fighters killing us.

Traitor?  Subjective.  You make the call.  No more subjective than Bergdal.  Some of us think desertion, and going over to the other side is a traitor.  A number in the current Liberal Administration think he is a hero, and have his folks over for a tet-a tet on the front lawn of the WH.

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Well, again we differ.

And I didn't think much about safer. The ones I hated were fonda and rather.  Whatever was being reported led back to treatment of POWs.

[Varmintmist]

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article 3 sec 3 US constitution
By selectively reporting only the things that made the US look bad, he aided the NVA which directly affected the actual war fighting. It is not a stretch to say that he was engaged in the propaganda arm of the war on the NV's side thus levying war against the US because he was engaged in knowingly reporting half truths.
Reporting the village burnt is OK, IF you complete the story stating that the village was a known haven for VC or NVA or a supply dump.

 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article 3 sec 3 US constitution
By selectively reporting only the things that made the US look bad, he aided the NVA which directly affected the actual war fighting. It is not a stretch to say that he was engaged in the propaganda arm of the war on the NV's side thus levying war against the US because he was engaged in knowingly reporting half truths.
Reporting the village burnt is OK, IF you complete the story stating that the village was a known haven for VC or NVA or a supply dump.

 

And you know what Morley Safer knew at the time ? I understand this is close to the hearts of you guys who fought over there. But if we are going to start accusing our journalists of treason because their reporting doesn't comport with what we see we are no better than some Banana Republics.

[98valk]

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article 3 sec 3 US constitution
By selectively reporting only the things that made the US look bad, he aided the NVA which directly affected the actual war fighting. It is not a stretch to say that he was engaged in the propaganda arm of the war on the NV's side thus levying war against the US because he was engaged in knowingly reporting half truths.
Reporting the village burnt is OK, IF you complete the story stating that the village was a known haven for VC or NVA or a supply dump.

 

And you know what Morley Safer knew at the time ? I understand this is close to the hearts of you guys who fought over there. But if we are going to start accusing our journalists of treason because their reporting doesn't comport with what we see we are no better than some Banana Republics.

it's very clear from your posts u do not read the links provided to u other wise u would know that safer knew exactly what was going on with that burning of the village. he and his bosses decided to twist it to make Americans look bad. just like kerry did.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article 3 sec 3 US constitution
By selectively reporting only the things that made the US look bad, he aided the NVA which directly affected the actual war fighting. It is not a stretch to say that he was engaged in the propaganda arm of the war on the NV's side thus levying war against the US because he was engaged in knowingly reporting half truths.
Reporting the village burnt is OK, IF you complete the story stating that the village was a known haven for VC or NVA or a supply dump.

 

And you know what Morley Safer knew at the time ? I understand this is close to the hearts of you guys who fought over there. But if we are going to start accusing our journalists of treason because their reporting doesn't comport with what we see we are no better than some Banana Republics.

it's very clear from your posts u do not read the links provided to u other wise u would know that safer knew exactly what was going on with that burning of the village. he and his bosses decided to twist it to make Americans look bad. just like kerry did.

I quit following your links 5 or 6 conspiracy theories back. 

[98valk]

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article 3 sec 3 US constitution
By selectively reporting only the things that made the US look bad, he aided the NVA which directly affected the actual war fighting. It is not a stretch to say that he was engaged in the propaganda arm of the war on the NV's side thus levying war against the US because he was engaged in knowingly reporting half truths.
Reporting the village burnt is OK, IF you complete the story stating that the village was a known haven for VC or NVA or a supply dump.

 

And you know what Morley Safer knew at the time ? I understand this is close to the hearts of you guys who fought over there. But if we are going to start accusing our journalists of treason because their reporting doesn't comport with what we see we are no better than some Banana Republics.

it's very clear from your posts u do not read the links provided to u other wise u would know that safer knew exactly what was going on with that burning of the village. he and his bosses decided to twist it to make Americans look bad. just like kerry did.

I quit following your links 5 or 6 conspiracy theories back. 

That's ashame.  cause the well informed realize they are not theories. and I wasn't the only one who posted links, you Meathead you! in my best archie bunker voice. 

[DK]

 Woody Allen saying - "Paranoia is knowing all the facts".

 

[Dragunslayer]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm


One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

I don't know if the reporting was one sided or not. I wasn't there. But to say he was a traitor is a huge misstatement. He was a reporter reporting what he saw, would you have him lie ?

Morley Safer saw Marines level Cam Ne, burn it down.
Morley Safer said: "This is what the war in Vietnam is all about."

-Mike

Does that make him a traitor ?

Did you read my link to the story?  If so, you can see that all he mentioned was the burning.  Not the WHY. ie, fighters using those for fighting, tunnels, killing US soldiers.  Morley ignored ALL of that, and JUST talked about US burning down a village, ignoring it was a base for fighters killing us.

Traitor?  Subjective.  You make the call.  No more subjective than Bergdal.  Some of us think desertion, and going over to the other side is a traitor.  A number in the current Liberal Administration think he is a hero, and have his folks over for a tet-a tet on the front lawn of the WH.

Morley Safer was a journalist. Bergdahl was active duty military. Big differences in my opinion. He may have gotten the story of Cam Ne wrong, he may have not reported everything he knew. I don't know. Regardless I don't see how either could possibly make him a traitor.

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

[The emperor has no clothes]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

[Patrick]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

One of our leaders a traitor,  LBJ comes to mind. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

One of our leaders a traitor,  LBJ comes to mind. 

Besides his being a Democrat, how so ?

[Gental Gaint]

CBS has always been ANTI-GUN..............

[98valk]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

One of our leaders a traitor,  LBJ comes to mind. 

Besides his being a Democrat, how so ?

lbj and ted kennedy changed the immigration laws which put us into the illegal alien problems we have today. plus he gave us the social welfare problems of today.

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965
LBJ signing a bill that was passed by the House and Senate makes him a traitor ? You know people were coming across the border long before this ? I'm beginning to see that if a person is not a far right God fearing man, in your opinion they must be a traitor. 

[baldo]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

One of our leaders a traitor,  LBJ comes to mind. 

Besides his being a Democrat, how so ?

lbj and ted kennedy changed the immigration laws which put us into the illegal alien problems we have today. plus he gave us the social welfare problems of today.

 

[Medina]

Ok I give. How many ?

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 

+1  No tears here for that person, nor when Jane Fonda dies.

[Patrick]

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/zippo_raids.htm

And now we know why your name on the forum is MEATHEAD. If you don't know after reading anything pertaining to this then you will never know and you are part of the problem in America today. But I don't know if that makes you a traitor. I'll bet you think all unarmed blacks that have been shot were racially profiled.

One sided reporting that turned opinion unfairly against the American soldier.  Collateral damage, made to look like it was the main intent of the soldiers.  How many lost?  Hard to say.  But, losing public opinion always costs lives of soldiers. 





Dragunslayer, I assume this was your post. The way you put it in the quotes makes it hard to determine. Dude you know very little of me. I know nothing of you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. As I'm sure you are aware there many mistakes in the undeclared war we call Vietnam. They were made by many, least of not our leaders. Civilian and Military. Would you call them traitors also ? As far as your comment about unarmed blacks, I have no idea what you are getting at. So I will let that one slide until you care to clarify. If you have any question about my loyalty to my country that just highlights my statement that you know very little about me.

One of our leaders a traitor,  LBJ comes to mind. 

Besides his being a Democrat, how so ?

How so ? Really ?

The escalation of Vietnam for one.
His stupid 'great society' for two.
His statements about giving the -------- [ I won't use the word] what they want and we'll have them voting democrat for 200 years. Thats three.
He was just a crude drunk. There's four. Not that being crude is all that bad, or, being a drunk is too bad. Its just the combination of those wrapped up in one person in such a position that bothers me.

I'm guessing you weren't too old way back then.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Patrick, I understand you don't like him. But that doesn't come anywhere close to treason.

[Patrick]

Patrick, I understand you don't like him. But that doesn't come anywhere close to treason.

Once again, we can disagree



Lets just go and have a beer and see what else we can ague over.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Patrick, I understand you don't like him. But that doesn't come anywhere close to treason.

Once again, we can disagree



Lets just go and have a beer and see what else we can ague over.   

How bout a coffee, it's way too early for me. 

[Robert]

I believe who ever had relatives that died at Vietnam would say that one more life lost was to much. That all who came back from Nam were looked upon as murderers was a travesty for this country. It was not a declared war that we sacrificed our men and women to achieve, what exactly. I think the politicians who sent our men and women there should have been in jail. I know one girl who just died at 33 who's father was in Nam and went through agent orange and she was born with one kidney and a host of other problems. So I understand how some could consider this treason considering the lack of support for men and women who did not want to be there and blaming these soldier for doing their job. A shameful page in US history, yet when we went in bombed the daylights out of them and it was over thats what should have happened from the beginning. What lives could have been saved???

If my son, father, husband had died in Vietnam and I heard the crap coming out of this mans mouth I would say he was a traitor also. I am old enough to remember being in the draft but fortunate enough to not be called. Thank you for those who serve in our military, in ALL wars and actions and I am sorry for those who dont appreciate the value of a life or moral support to those who have to serve. For those who came home some did ok but others though physically ok mentally had some major problems. There was no support and even to this day have to deal with issues.

I dont know how anyone justifies the cost of American lives so easily or not give support to those in harms way.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I believe who ever had relatives that died at Vietnam would say that one more life lost was to much. That all who came back from Nam were looked upon as murderers was a travesty for this country. It was not a declared war that we sacrificed our men and women to achieve, what exactly. I think the politicians who sent our men and women there should have been in jail. I know one girl who just died at 33 who's father was in Nam and went through agent orange and she was born with one kidney and a host of other problems. So I understand how some could consider this treason considering the lack of support for men and women who did not want to be there and blaming these soldier for doing their job. A shameful page in US history, yet when we went in bombed the daylights out of them and it was over thats what should have happened from the begining. What lives could have been saved???

If me or my son had died in Vietnam and I heard the crap coming out of this mans mouth I would say he was a traitor also. I am old enough to remember being in the draft but fortunate enough to not be called. Thank you for those who serve in our military, in ALL wars and actions and I am sorry for those who dont appreciate the value of a life or moral support to those who have to serve.

I agree with some of what you say. But I'm confused about "When we went in and bombed the day lights out of the and it was over" . I remember it as us bombing the day lights out of them for long periods to not much effect. I remember us leaving Vietnam without victory.

[hubcapsc]

to achieve, what exactly.

I think it was one of a number of "proxy wars" between the super
powers that emerged after WWII. While not better than "no war",
they were a lot better than nuclear war.

Besides having read about it, I have friends who have told
me about the attitudes they were subjected to when they
came back... kinda makes my blood boil   .... I was about
14 when the last man was drafted, I probably had a paper
route or worked at the car wash then, it all went over my head
at the time...

-Mike

[Robert]

I believe who ever had relatives that died at Vietnam would say that one more life lost was to much. That all who came back from Nam were looked upon as murderers was a travesty for this country. It was not a declared war that we sacrificed our men and women to achieve, what exactly. I think the politicians who sent our men and women there should have been in jail. I know one girl who just died at 33 who's father was in Nam and went through agent orange and she was born with one kidney and a host of other problems. So I understand how some could consider this treason considering the lack of support for men and women who did not want to be there and blaming these soldier for doing their job. A shameful page in US history, yet when we went in bombed the daylights out of them and it was over thats what should have happened from the begining. What lives could have been saved???

If me or my son had died in Vietnam and I heard the crap coming out of this mans mouth I would say he was a traitor also. I am old enough to remember being in the draft but fortunate enough to not be called. Thank you for those who serve in our military, in ALL wars and actions and I am sorry for those who dont appreciate the value of a life or moral support to those who have to serve.

I agree with some of what you say. But I'm confused about "When we went in and bombed the day lights out of the and it was over" . I remember it as us bombing the day lights out of them for long periods to not much effect. I remember us leaving Vietnam without victory.

The B52's started to carpet bomb relentlessly and that is when the end came. Every time they stopped the negotiations would pause every time they bombed negotiations started and the last time they kept it up till a peace was signed. It drove them to the table. There was outcry over the civilians getting killed instead of the US lives saved. That is why today we have limited war with precision bombing. It was a Limited war used as a negotiation tool.

You are right that there was no victory, so why did we lose so many?

I like the quote from OSS that was from the movie war games
The only winning move is not to play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

We have never fought a nuclear war because no one wants to pay the price that is the way all war or actions should be viewed.

1972
Nixon announces start of “Christmas Bombing” of North Vietnam

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nixon-announces-start-of-christmas-bombing-of-north-vietnam

http://www.123helpme.com/purpose-of-the-vietnam-war--view.asp?id=158177
When he took office in 1961, President John F. Kennedy vowed not to allow South Vietnam fall to communism.


Yet today we have Bernie and Hillary and even O proclaiming the joys of communism or really socialism and we fought wars not to allow that in countries.

So now we have by choice what could not be achieved by war with the American mostly liberals accepting the values of this system and wondering why all the older generations are against it. What a screwed up world.


Democratic Socialists
http://www.dsausa.org/

[The emperor has no clothes]

to achieve, what exactly.

I think it was one of a number of "proxy wars" between the super
powers that emerged after WWII. While not better than "no war",
they were a lot better than nuclear war.

Besides having read about it, I have friends who have told
me about the attitudes they were subjected to when they
came back... kinda makes my blood boil   .... I was about
14 when the last man was drafted, I probably had a paper
route or worked at the car wash then, it all went over my head
at the time...

-Mike