Mall Stabbing

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

So, one of Obama's refugees goes to a "gun-free zone" and stabs unarmed/disarmed victims while shouting about allah and asking what religion his victims are.

And he continues to stab people until he is shot by an NRA certified firearms instructor who is carrying a concealed handgun inside the mall. And the local police chief praises the shooter for saving lives.

Do you think any liberal heads are exploding about this one?

[Wizzard]

Even our own POTUS cannot bring himself to say it. He stated that its a "possible Islam terrorist"

[The emperor has no clothes]

So, one of Obama's refugees goes to a "gun-free zone" and stabs unarmed/disarmed victims while shouting about allah and asking what religion his victims are.

And he continues to stab people until he is shot by an NRA certified firearms instructor who is carrying a concealed handgun inside the mall. And the local police chief praises the shooter for saving lives.

Do you think any liberal heads are exploding about this one?

My head was still attached when I looked. The article I read said he was a 20 year old Somali who came here at 3 months old. I don't think Obama was even a Senator then. 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

So, one of Obama's refugees goes to a "gun-free zone" and stabs unarmed/disarmed victims while shouting about allah and asking what religion his victims are.

And he continues to stab people until he is shot by an NRA certified firearms instructor who is carrying a concealed handgun inside the mall. And the local police chief praises the shooter for saving lives.

Do you think any liberal heads are exploding about this one?

My head was still attached when I looked. The article I read said he was a 20 year old Somali who came here at 3 months old. I don't think Obama was even a Senator then. 

Damn Meathead, you're always confusing me with the facts. Our local news channel tied him in with Obama's refugees so I thought he was one of Obama's imports. So it was the first Clinton that imported this guy when he was just a baby terrorist? Who'd a thunk it. And now Monica's boyfriend's wife wants to bring in 60,000 more.......

[The emperor has no clothes]

So, one of Obama's refugees goes to a "gun-free zone" and stabs unarmed/disarmed victims while shouting about allah and asking what religion his victims are.

And he continues to stab people until he is shot by an NRA certified firearms instructor who is carrying a concealed handgun inside the mall. And the local police chief praises the shooter for saving lives.

Do you think any liberal heads are exploding about this one?

My head was still attached when I looked. The article I read said he was a 20 year old Somali who came here at 3 months old. I don't think Obama was even a Senator then. 

Damn Meathead, you're always confusing me with the facts. Our local news channel tied him in with Obama's refugees so I thought he was one of Obama's imports. So it was the first Clinton that imported this guy when he was just a baby terrorist? Who'd a thunk it. And now Monica's boyfriend's wife wants to bring in 60,000 more.......

I just did a quick read of it. I don't know if his family were refugees or just immigrants. But you do know Reagan and both Bush's had refugees also ? Facts are a funny thing aren't they ?

[Moonshot_1]

I'm thinking most Administrations, at least in modern times, have brought refugees into our country.

It's just that with this current crop of refugees there is way too much of Helter Skelter amongst them (some make Charles Manson look like a normal guy) and not many willing to assimilate into or embrace the western culture. They want to bring their's here and intently "share" it with everybody. That is a fairly recent dynamic. 

[Gavin_Sons]

I jeard je was also on the FBI watch list. His dad reported him as maybe being a terrorist. Then they took him off and he stabbed people. The only way to stop bad guys is good guys with guns. Carry at all times and practice, practice, practice. I like to use those targets that look like terrorist. Seems I have blew away several hundred over the last couple years.

[bscrive]

I read about the stabbing.  The guy who shot him was a part time cop and the police force's firearm's instructor.
As for the perp, I highly doubt he was a terrorist.  More like someone in a dead end job, no pun intended, and more than likely was on something.  He wasn't screaming anything about 'allah'.  The witnesses said the guy 'looked blank in his eyes', so it is a pretty good indication that if he wasn't on something then he was a manic depressive, or had some sort of mental problem that he hid. 
Don't be so quick to judge.  When you do that you just give more power to the real sh!t head terrorists.
Also, as for wishing that more people had guns.  I could see a situation like this turning out a lot worst with all kinds of bullets flying around I am sure some innocents would have been hit by their bullets.  Leave it to the professionals, like the guy who got the job done.

[Moonshot_1]

I read about the stabbing.  The guy who shot him was a part time cop and the police force's firearm's instructor.
As for the perp, I highly doubt he was a terrorist.  More like someone in a dead end job, no pun intended, and more than likely was on something.  He wasn't screaming anything about 'allah'.  The witnesses said the guy 'looked blank in his eyes', so it is a pretty good indication that if he wasn't on something then he was a manic depressive, or had some sort of mental problem that he hid. 
Don't be so quick to judge.  When you do that you just give more power to the real sh!t head terrorists.
Also, as for wishing that more people had guns.  I could see a situation like this turning out a lot worst with all kinds of bullets flying around I am sure some innocents would have been hit by their bullets.  Leave it to the professionals, like the guy who got the job done.

Yup leave it to the professionals, when seconds count they're only minutes away.

[bscrive]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

[Gavin_Sons]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

Where was this guy the other times terrorist have struck?   
I'll not wait for the "professionals" to protect me. By the time they get there they will need an entirely different set of professionals to carry the body away.

[Gavin_Sons]

You must get an entirely different news feed than I get. You must get the PC news.

[Moonshot_1]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

[Oldfishguy]

Just to set the facts staight, I live about 20 miles from this mall:

The mall attacker was not on any "watch list" known as of yet.  (I think you ar referring to the New York bomber that happened at about the same time.)

The off duty police officer that shot the attacker was in the mall shopping for a present for his daughter.  The mall is a gun free zone, but this rule does not apply to police officers.  This police officer is VERY part time, not even scheduled to work in the next two months in a small town near by.  He was a former chief of police in another small town nearby.  His current income appears to be with his gun range and training facility; he trains private citizens and police officers at his facility.  The officer also competes in "Three Gun" competitive shooting events.  I personally have never seen another armed police officer in that mall.

  The attacker did make "religious" remarks during the initial attack. He was a high school grad, and had attended some college although not since last Spring (Computer Science classes).  He had worked as a security guard until last spring; no work history known since. Since he had not worked as a security guard recently, it is odd the attacker was wearing his security uniform . . . uniform was probably planned for some reason.  

Somehow this young man appears to have been radicalized in a narrow time period.  Time will tell as investigators  look at his past and acquainteses.  That is the real question, how and why?

Everyone in the mall was very fortunate for the well trained armed officer nearby.  And his business phone is probably ringing 24/7 now with classes filling up.

[Hook#3287]

Also, as for wishing that more people had guns.  I could see a situation like this turning out a lot worst with all kinds of bullets flying around I am sure some innocents would have been hit by their bullets.  Leave it to the professionals, like the guy who got the job done.

I don't know, maybe you have a CMP on every corner up there, but I've learned to fend for myself.

Hanging around waiting on some professional to show up, ain't gonna cut it.

[bscrive]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

Man, you guys live in a dream world where you are Dirty Harry and only the perp gets shot.  Switch to reality.....dozens of shots are fired, sure the perp goes down, but so do other 'collateral damage' victims.  Face it guys, you are not as good as you think you are.  If you don't have military or police type of training with a firearm then you will probably be scared as sh!t and not thinking properly.  You would empty your magazine before you know it and still be pressing the trigger before you realize you are out.  Maybe you are as good as the cop that stopped him, but I doubt it.  Personally, if I am there, I will take my chances with the perp with the knife rather than try to dodge your bullets.
As reported by Time magazine: 'According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time', and they have training for this kind of crap.  That means, if you have a 15 round magazine, only 3 - 5 rounds would hit the guy.  What happened to the other 10 - 12 rounds.  Probably in a wall or someone else.   Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  

[Hook#3287]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there.  

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

Man, you guys live in a dream world where you are Dirty Harry and only the perp gets shot.  Switch to reality.....dozens of shots are fired, sure the perp goes down, but so do other 'collateral damage' victims.  Face it guys, you are not as good as you think you are.  If you don't have military or police type of training with a firearm then you will probably be scared as sh!t and not thinking properly.  You would empty your magazine before you know it and still be pressing the trigger before you realize you are out.  Maybe you are as good as the cop that stopped him, but I doubt it.  Personally, if I am there, I will take my chances with the perp with the knife rather than try to dodge your bullets.
As reported by Time magazine: 'According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time', and they have training for this kind of crap.  That means, if you have a 15 round magazine, only 3 - 5 rounds would hit the guy.  What happened to the other 10 - 12 rounds.  Probably in a wall or someone else.   Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  

Actually, I think you may have the Dirty Harry thing going on.

I know for a fact I will only use force in DEFENCE, if cornered, in a perp attacking myself of someone near me situation.  I will NOT be jumping up and shooting like some gang banger with my gun held sideways.  My defence will be as close as I can get it.  And then I hope to get away before anyone knows what happened.  But more than that, I hope it never happens.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just to set the facts staight, I live about 20 miles from this mall:

The mall attacker was not on any "watch list" known as of yet.  (I think you ar referring to the New York bomber that happened at about the same time.)

The off duty police officer that shot the attacker was in the mall shopping for a present for his daughter.  The mall is a gun free zone, but this rule does not apply to police officers.  This police officer is VERY part time, not even scheduled to work in the next two months in a small town near by.  He was a former chief of police in another small town nearby.  His current income appears to be with his gun range and training facility; he trains private citizens and police officers at his facility.  The officer also competes in "Three Gun" competitive shooting events.  I personally have never seen another armed police officer in that mall.

  The attacker did make "religious" remarks during the initial attack. He was a high school grad, and had attended some college although not since last Spring (Computer Science classes).  He had worked as a security guard until last spring; no work history known since. Since he had not worked as a security guard recently, it is odd the attacker was wearing his security uniform . . . uniform was probably planned for some reason.  

Somehow this young man appears to have been radicalized in a narrow time period.  Time will tell as investigators  look at his past and acquainteses.  That is the real question, how and why?

Everyone in the mall was very fortunate for the well trained armed officer nearby.  And his business phone is probably ringing 24/7 now with classes filling up.

thanks for the info. I hope the guy gets more customers than he knows what to do with.

[art]

I'll bet the Rifleman would have got him with one shot. Lets ban knives. Knives kill people.

[MP]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

Man, you guys live in a dream world where you are Dirty Harry and only the perp gets shot.  Switch to reality.....dozens of shots are fired, sure the perp goes down, but so do other 'collateral damage' victims.  Face it guys, you are not as good as you think you are.  If you don't have military or police type of training with a firearm then you will probably be scared as sh!t and not thinking properly.  You would empty your magazine before you know it and still be pressing the trigger before you realize you are out.  Maybe you are as good as the cop that stopped him, but I doubt it.  Personally, if I am there, I will take my chances with the perp with the knife rather than try to dodge your bullets.
As reported by Time magazine: 'According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time', and they have training for this kind of crap.  That means, if you have a 15 round magazine, only 3 - 5 rounds would hit the guy.  What happened to the other 10 - 12 rounds.  Probably in a wall or someone else.   Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  

So, the cops hit rate is 18%, and you think that is who you want there?  At most, I can be only 18% worse!

So, let me get this straight.

You, your wife, and two daughters are at the mall.  There are no armed cops there, but if you call, they are nearby, they can be there in only 5 minutes.  A man attacks you and your family with a knife or a gun.  He is 18,  6'3", 240#.  You are not.

Tell me again, how YOUR best defense, is to get out your phone, call 911, and WAIT 5 minutes for the posse to get there?

Really?

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there. 

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

Man, you guys live in a dream world where you are Dirty Harry and only the perp gets shot.  Switch to reality.....dozens of shots are fired, sure the perp goes down, but so do other 'collateral damage' victims.  Face it guys, you are not as good as you think you are.  If you don't have military or police type of training with a firearm then you will probably be scared as sh!t and not thinking properly.  You would empty your magazine before you know it and still be pressing the trigger before you realize you are out.  Maybe you are as good as the cop that stopped him, but I doubt it.  Personally, if I am there, I will take my chances with the perp with the knife rather than try to dodge your bullets.
As reported by Time magazine: 'According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time', and they have training for this kind of crap.  That means, if you have a 15 round magazine, only 3 - 5 rounds would hit the guy.  What happened to the other 10 - 12 rounds.  Probably in a wall or someone else.   Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  

I'm curious as to where this bravado came from? I failed to see it in any of the above posts. Are you talking about someone here, someone you know personally or some instance you have seen in the news that I have missed? I've carried a firearm for more years than I can count, yet I've never drawn it and pray that I never need to. Carrying a gun is like carrying tools and a spare tire. You don't leave home without them and you hope you never need to use them.

In this area, around 1 out of every 10 citizens has a carry permit. Yet, we don't the problems you speak of. Do you live in an area that does have this problem? If not, where are these walls being filled with bullets at?

[Gavin_Sons]

Just another anti-gunner blabbing his mouth about things he knows nothing of. I'll keep carrying and protecting myself. I have carried nearly every day for 13 years and have never had to draw my weapon. Like Frye, I also hope I never do. If it comes down to me protecting my family in the moment or telling the bad guy to hold on and let me call the cops, you can bet your ass I will shoot first and then call the cops to bring the body bag. I'm glad you read all this stuff in magazines.  You must be an expert. Even if you are highly trained you still dont know how you will react. I think the police 30% is way high. How many times do you hear about 3 or 4 of the shooting 100 rounds at someone and only hitting them 2 or 3 times? Too often.

[Sorcerer]

The gun on an officers belt is only a tool. As is mine. The gentle man in MN, in general was just your average joe. A well trained joe though. A channel 5 reporter tried to put her anti gun nose into the interview with him by asking if he was trying to wound or kill. She admitted she asked twice and both times he told her that he was " shooting to stop the threat". If you read the acount of the shoot out with the suspected bomer in NY, he was hit 3 times, none in center mass. That was not by choice on the part of the officers. They are just not that good. Most LEO do not train as the officer has in MN. Shoot to qualify once a year and they are standing at a firing station not out in a mall.

[Gavin_Sons]

The gun on an officers belt is only a tool. As is mine. The gentle man in MN, in general was just your average joe. A well trained joe though. A channel 5 reporter tried to put her anti gun nose into the interview with him by asking if he was trying to wound or kill. She admitted she asked twice and both times he told her that he was " shooting to stop the threat". If you read the acount of the shoot out with the suspected bomer in NY, he was hit 3 times, none in center mass. That was not by choice on the part of the officers. They are just not that good. Most LEO do not train as the officer has in MN. Shoot to qualify once a year and they are standing at a firing station not out in a mall.

But the anti-gunners dont understand this. Just because a cop qualifies once a year means he is a professional. My training every couple weeks does not count. I shoot more ammo in one day than most cops shoot in 5 years. Or even 10 years. But im the non professional. I will not carry a gun unless I have fired 1000 rounds through it so I know it is trustworthy to save my life. If I is a jam box then it gets traded off for something else.

[Trynt]

Just to set the facts staight, I live about 20 miles from this mall:


The off duty police officer that shot the attacker was in the mall shopping for a present for his daughter.  The mall is a gun free zone, but this rule does not apply to police officers.  This police officer is VERY part time, not even scheduled to work in the next two months in a small town near by.  He was a former chief of police in another small town nearby.  His current income appears to be with his gun range and training facility; he trains private citizens and police officers at his facility.  The officer also competes in "Three Gun" competitive shooting events.

  

  I can verify all of this. I have a son that lives in Sartell (a St Cloud suburb). This guy was my son's instructor in his recent carry renewal class. He has declined news interviews and the only statement he issued said he wasn't injured in the incident. SO much for bravado.

[Gavin_Sons]

Smart man, as soon as he says he was shooting to kill the media would hang him.

[MP]

There are tens of thousands of defensive uses of firearms a year by private citizens.  Countless lives saved, yet, the anti gunners REFUSE to admit this.

[Psychotic Bovine]

You say that Moonshot, but that guy was there.  

Yes, but, the first victim was stabbed, then more were stabbed, then the professional killed him. Time from first stabbing till the guy was killed? Not long. Probably a couple of Minutes.

Man, you guys live in a dream world where you are Dirty Harry and only the perp gets shot.  Switch to reality.....dozens of shots are fired, sure the perp goes down, but so do other 'collateral damage' victims.  Face it guys, you are not as good as you think you are.  If you don't have military or police type of training with a firearm then you will probably be scared as sh!t and not thinking properly.  You would empty your magazine before you know it and still be pressing the trigger before you realize you are out.  Maybe you are as good as the cop that stopped him, but I doubt it.  Personally, if I am there, I will take my chances with the perp with the knife rather than try to dodge your bullets.
As reported by Time magazine: 'According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time', and they have training for this kind of crap.  That means, if you have a 15 round magazine, only 3 - 5 rounds would hit the guy.  What happened to the other 10 - 12 rounds.  Probably in a wall or someone else.   Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  

Actually, real life doesn't bear you out.  Sounds like you are getting your facts about defensive uses of firearms from Mother Jones or Huffington Post.
I have heard of no innocent people being hurt when a lawful concealed carrier engages a perp (the NY police should have that kind of record).  It just doesn't happen, or if it does, it's statistically insignificant.  FBI studies and other people without an agenda have indicated nearly a million instances a year of lawfully owned firearms being used in defense of people.  Most times shots aren't even fired; the presence of the firearm de-escalates the situation.  Most police officers polled prefer the lawfully armed.
Sorry that the truth doesn't fit your views.

[MP]

A number of years ago read the following.

When incident happens, and cops come, they have NO IDEA who the bad guy is.  So, everyone gets treated the same.  Make a mistake, and you are shot, even being the good guy.

However, if you are there, and see the incident, you KNOW who the bad guy is, so are less likely to make a mistake.

The stats shown in that article were that citizens shot FEWER innocents than officers did, simply because they KNEW who the bad guy was.  Cops do NOT, at least at the moment they arrive.

[solo1]

 Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  QUOTE by bscrive.

You have NO idea of what is going on.  That is a pure blanket statement  and grossly misinformed.

I've been an NRA instructor for over 50 years.  I've tried to teach safety and a sense of responsibility, along with acting in self defense.  You are speaking as a citizen of a country that that does not trust its people with firearms.  Your thinking is right in line also with the antigunners here.

Yes, most of us do not know exactly how we would react unless we've been exposed to a dangerous situation. However,  we train ourselves, accept the responsibility that comes with wielding a dangerous weapon. and will NOT stand by if a bad situation presents itself.

Bravado has nothing to do with it. In fact I would be extremely reluctant to do something unless necessary but do something I would. 

I most certainly, will not be a rabbit when a predator comes.

[MP]

Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  QUOTE by bscrive.

You have NO idea of what is going on.  That is a pure blanket statement  and grossly misinformed.

I've been an NRA instructor for over 50 years.  I've tried to teach safety and a sense of responsibility, along with acting in self defense.  You are speaking as a citizen of a country that that does not trust its people with firearms.  Your thinking is right in line also with the antigunners here.

Yes, most of us do not know exactly how we would react unless we've been exposed to a dangerous situation. However,  we train ourselves, accept the responsibility that comes with wielding a dangerous weapon. and will NOT stand by if a bad situation presents itself.

Bravado has nothing to do with it. In fact I would be extremely reluctant to do something unless necessary but do something I would. 

I most certainly, will not be a rabbit when a predator comes.

Amen.

Seems like the anti gunners lump all gun owners into some false John Wayne stereotype.  "Shoot first, question later.  Be a He man."

In fact, the opposite is true. Carrying carries a great responsibility.  I, and everyone I know who carries, would much rather NOT have to use the gun.  I do pray that, if the time ever comes when it is needed, I will be as responsible as possible.  One never knows just how he will react, until in a life and death situation.  Training, and thinking about it ahead of time helps, I hope.

[3fan4life]

Sorry, but, your bravado falls flat.  QUOTE by bscrive.

You have NO idea of what is going on.  That is a pure blanket statement  and grossly misinformed.

I've been an NRA instructor for over 50 years.  I've tried to teach safety and a sense of responsibility, along with acting in self defense.  You are speaking as a citizen of a country that that does not trust its people with firearms.  Your thinking is right in line also with the antigunners here.

Yes, most of us do not know exactly how we would react unless we've been exposed to a dangerous situation. However,  we train ourselves, accept the responsibility that comes with wielding a dangerous weapon. and will NOT stand by if a bad situation presents itself.

Bravado has nothing to do with it. In fact I would be extremely reluctant to do something unless necessary but do something I would. 

I most certainly, will not be a rabbit when a predator comes.

Amen.

Seems like the anti gunners lump all gun owners into some false John Wayne stereotype.  "Shoot first, question later.  Be a He man."

In fact, the opposite is true. Carrying carries a great responsibility.  I, and everyone I know who carries, would much rather NOT have to use the gun.  I do pray that, if the time ever comes when it is needed, I will be as responsible as possible.  One never knows just how he will react, until in a life and death situation.  Training, and thinking about it ahead of time helps, I hope.

You're exactly right!

The last thing that responsible gun owners want to do is shoot someone.

My Dad taught me that you never point a gun at anything that you DON'T intend to kill, PERIOD.

Three times in my life I have had to pull a gun on someone.

Thankfully,  that diffused the situation and I did not have to shoot anyone.

But, I was prepared to do so.

I have spent a lifetime saving the lives of others but you can bet that if someone was trying to harm me or my family I would do whatever was necessary to STOP them.

Again, NO responsible gun owner wants to take a person's life!

But, most are prepared to do so if necessary.

What those who scream that it should be left to the "professionals" fail to comprehend is that when seconds count, the "professionals" are minutes away.


It has also been my experience that many police officers have great difficulty hitting their target.

Two episodes from my days in EMS come to mind:

1) A man with a shotgun entered into a standoff with police. When he pointed the shotgun directly at him the officers opened fire. The man was hit 9 times. The rock wall that he was standing in front of was hit over 100 times.

2) A young man was fleeing from several police officers on foot. When he turned and pointed a gun at them they opened fire. He was hit four times. There were more than 40 spent shell casings on the ground.

[Gavin_Sons]

But they are professionals    

I do know several that I would not want to run from because of their skills with a gun. One was a sniper and I deer hunt with him. The other is just an average joe but shoots every single day he is off duty. He also shoots competitively. These are your 1% officers thatncan actually shoot well. Then you have your 20% officers that are average shooters then the other 79% that do just enough to qualify every year. Yes I made these numbers up so don't go looking for a link.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

But they are professionals    

I do know several that I would not want to run from because of their skills with a gun. One was a sniper and I deer hunt with him. The other is just an average joe but shoots every single day he is off duty. He also shoots competitively. These are your 1% officers thatncan actually shoot well. Then you have your 20% officers that are average shooters then the other 79% that do just enough to qualify every year. Yes I made these numbers up so don't go looking for a link.

You may have made them up but that pretty well sums up my experience  too.

[RP#62]

I wouldn't be too critical of the police on this.  Shooting aimed shots at paper at the range is not the same as shooting at a target that is shooting back at you and is determined to kill you.  Police are trained to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.  From the time a fatal shot is fired until the time the recipient actually dies is often plenty of time for them to take out the cop.  Cops know this so they fire until the target stops or they're out of bullets, whatever comes first.

I read a real good article on this a while back (that I can't find now), but there are several stories similar to this on line:

https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

-RP

[bscrive]

You guys may think that I am anti-gun, but that is the furthest thing from the truth.  I love target shooting when I get the chance.  There was a time where I spent hours target shooting. Don't have the time these days.  I used to have many rifles and shotguns, but I sold them because I just didn't have the time to shoot them.
I just don't think that citizens should be carrying guns in public places.  Have as many as you want, just leave them at home.
Maybe I have a different perspective because I live in Canada.  I have been all over Canada and the US and at no time did I ever feel the need to have a weapon on me.  If I did, I think I would move somewhere safer.
I see what you guys write and realize that no matter what people say, it is you that just don't get it. 
I'll bet that you don't really read what is printed here, but will react before you really know what I am saying.

[gordonv]

This is one reason we have our current firearm act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_L%C3%A9pine

I remember when this happened. It was said that he spent so much time doing this atrocity, that he could have used a musket loader.

I also have heard the same thing about our local RCMP, from the firearms officer at our local firing range, when it was closed for the officers annual qualifying shoots. Most police did not need to shoot any better than we did. But then, most members of the range shot better than them, as they did more training.

I remember when I had more time, and a place to reload, I used to go through about 5K primers ever 3 months (the max amount I was able to import into Canada from the US, before 9/11). I had qualified on holster carry, and concealed carry (this is for on range use only, not on the street).

It's been about 3 years now since I've shot my hand gun. But once in a while I take it out and practice holster/draw/aim/dry fire, for mussel memory refreshing. No more Tactical practice. Motor cycles instead.

I was looking for the incident where the women was raped after a 911 call, and police never responded. She sued, and the court dismissed the case. Something like the one I found, for the same reason. Police do not owe anything to an individual, but are there for the public at large (?   ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

[3fan4life]

You guys may think that I am anti-gun, but that is the furthest thing from the truth.  I love target shooting when I get the chance.  There was a time where I spent hours target shooting. Don't have the time these days.  I used to have many rifles and shotguns, but I sold them because I just didn't have the time to shoot them.
I just don't think that citizens should be carrying guns in public places.  Have as many as you want, just leave them at home.
Maybe I have a different perspective because I live in Canada.  I have been all over Canada and the US and at no time did I ever feel the need to have a weapon on me.  If I did, I think I would move somewhere safer.
I see what you guys write and realize that no matter what people say, it is you that just don't get it. 
I'll bet that you don't really read what is printed here, but will react before you really know what I am saying.

Maybe crime just doesn't exist in Canada.

Here in the US we have crime.

The funny thing is that it is at its worst in the cities with the strictest gun laws.

Here's the thing about concealed carry;

1) It's like fire insurance........... you can't afford to be without it and you pray to God that you never need it.

2) If it isn't needed......... NO-ONE should ever know that you have it.

[MP]

I see what you guys write and realize that no matter what people say, it is you that just don't get it. 
I'll bet that you don't really read what is printed here, but will react before you really know what I am saying.

We do not get it?  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

And, I really DID read what you wrote, did NOT react until it sank in.  You are still wrong!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/04/woman-accused-in-downtown-toronto-stabbing-now-charged-with-1st-degree-murder_n_9153712.html

Huff Post no less.  Woman stabbed to death another, IN CANADA, in a DRUG STORE in a MALL!

Just think, if you had been there, in that store, and were armed, there is a good chance that YOU, yes YOU, could have saved that womans life!

But, you would prefer to let your finger do the dialing, call 911, and watch the woman bleed to death.

That is your plan, and you are sticking to it.  I would hope and pray that my plan, and others here, would result in a different outcome.

[Gavin_Sons]

Yep, it's just us that don't get it.  ever think you may be the one that does not get it? It's a choice and i choose to protect myself and family no matter what. And yes, i choose to protect them with a gun instead of a phone. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.