used car shopping

[cookiedough]

what a joke today.  Wife took off work so we went used car shopping in that 3-5K range for a good, cheap, reliable small 4 cylinder car for my daughter in college needing a car after summer break.  Had my eyes today to look at a scion xa hatchback,  toyota matrix, pontiac vibe, honda civic, and toyota corolla.  All 4 cylinders good mpg and supposedly reliable engine/tranny overall in general that is for say a 2003-2006 model year say 120-140K miles. 

Well, between one car on dealer lot not starting, one having a flat tire unable to drive,  one car leaking oil off engine block and just in general trashed, while the other one NOT even at the dealership even though talked to him 30 minutes before arriving said it was there but had a cracked front plastic bumper in the body shop being painted when we showed up unable to see it even, and another one driveable but pretty much junk and way overpriced,  we decided shopping for a good, reliable, cheap car at a dealership was pointless.

Going tomorrow to a private party sale on a 2004 pontiac vibe 140K miles,  ONE owner owned for all 13 years by their mom and was stored in garage with new tires, new brake pads, new coolants all around, and new serpentine belt, will see how that one pans out.  Wife was pissed today wasted entire day and tomorrow as well since is near 2 1/2 drive one way but pics appear good but you never know until you get there and test drive/look it over.  3 minor issues he said: minor exhaust leak, mom backed into the red vehicle they own taking paint off the plastic gray left rear fender wheel well about 15 inches long x 1 inch wide, and battery bracket broke he said when he replaced the battery last year due to rusted bolt/bracket with battery now being held in place by 2 bungee cords.  WHY not go to junkyard and just get a 5-10 dollar battery bracket BEFORE selling???  If people want stuff sold, do the right thing and spend 10 bucks so the new owner does not have to waste 10-15 bucks in gas as well driving to nearest junkyard, agree?

I think private party is the way to go though will be 1-2K cheaper than dealers and so far,  dealers cars were JUNK today all 4-5 of them would not drive them even if I could on some of them.  Dealers say they inspect them for safety but from what I drove today,  they did NOT, and all that old are AS IS NO warranty, so the heck with overpriced dealerships and am sure most of them were bought on the cheap side at an auction so NO history on them and from what I have seen, CARFAX reports are pretty much useless not showing much besides registration and oil changes.

[Jess from VA]

we decided shopping for a good, reliable, cheap car at a dealership was pointless.

You don't say.  

The only thing going to a dealer used lot is good for is to 1) see a lot of cars in a short time, and 2) to possibly learn something about some of them (positives and negatives).  (and getting an upset stomach, and homicidal tendencies)

I suppose it's technically possible you could get a good car for a good buy at a dealer....... although that goes against a lifetime of personal experience.

Private sales is the way to go, but it takes more time, and you can only hope you deal with honest people.

The dream car for me was always that fantasy of getting a 20 yr old car with low miles in great shape that was owned by a little old lady.   So what if it was a Ford Granada or Fairmont (gag).

One other point.  If she does not travel far to and from school, I would not be so interested in a tiny 4 cylinder go cart.  Some of the bigger cars may be safer and more reliable (like in snow) and a better overall deal, even if the mileage is half that of the go cart.

[cookiedough]

thought about a V6 chevy impala, etc. but parking is an issue on campus and that is a pretty big car on campus parking.  Plus, most of her driving is going to be in town so want a 4 cylinder for 30 mpg vs. any V6 in town is about 22-23 mpg is all, not needing a V6 engine. 

V6 engines only shine on the hwy. doing 55 mph on up getting say 30 mpg tops vs. a 4 cylinder on hwy. 33-38.  I did talk to a mom/pop old guy dealership and he said he knows he can get a silver 2008 chevy impala V6 with gray interior for 3800 bucks with only 111,000 miles on it supposedly in good shape though.  And YES,  a mid to near full sized car is safer if ever involved in an accident which I totally agree with you on. 

Just really pissed us off today 7 hours of putzing around to see at several dealers supposedly safety inspected a broken outside rearview mirror, oil leaking from engine and power steering,  flat tire,  trim lower body mouldings coming off with plastic clips not holding easily seen,  nasty stains on headliner all over,  softball sized dents and rust,  dead battery, bad brakes needing rotors turned pulsating badly, etc, etc. ALL things that should be fixed/cleaned BEFORE putting on the lot for sale especially at their already OVERINFLATED pricing all about 1K OR MORE over what the car is really worth as it sits.

Been thru this gammit before 3 years ago when we wanted a good used 3-4 year old 4 door sedan dealers asking 13K when new same car was 16.5K and NOT going down any on their asking price.  So, ended up buying NEW was not worth it to save 3 grand on a 3-4 year old car with 40-50K miles on NO warranty either. 

If tomorrow does not pan out wasting a whole day for this pontiac vibe private party sale,  at least in the future ONCE IT WARMS UP MORE, is a good opportunity on weekends to drive the Valkyrie around looking at used cars.  There is one out there, just gotta get lucky I guess.  On all cars we seen today, I would for sure take my 1986 caprice classic (fix the brakes) with 165K miles on it before all these 2002-2005 vehicles by far even though that boat caprice is technically only worth 1K tops.   Due to heaviness, a junk yard will give us 200 bucks and NO dealer wants a 1986 caprice classic on their lot.  I still remember my dad when alive went to trade it in on a 1996 caprice classic way back when with say 130K miles on it and dealer only offered 50 bucks trade in being about 15-20 years ago now.  Dad was insulted as he should be kept driving it until 2008 when he died.   

Been meaning to sell the caprice to someone, but have to get the brakes fixed first then would be a good car for someone for say 800-1000 bucks.   Sure beats what we all saw today for 4K or so.

[BF]

You're a grown man by now...aren't you?  You should know by now that the only good feeling that you're gonna get from a dealer is going to be applied with some lube...and not oil either. 

If you want to drive 2 and a half hours ONE WAY to go and see a used car, well, that's up to you.  That's gonna be at least a 6 to 7 hour day.  And btw....why in the hell can't you call this guy to ask him about a stupid battery tray BEFORE you drive 2 and a half hours to see a broken battery tray? 

Perhaps he's a clutz and has no clue how to turn a wrench....they are out there ya know.  ALSO, the same type of person that can't seem to get around to ever fixing a battey tray is probably gonna be the same type of person that never ever got around to changing the oil either....hint...hint. 

Surely you can find a decent used little car for 3 to 4 grand around your house somewhere can't you?  Do you live in the middle of nowhere?

Don't they have Craigslist up there in WS?  There has to be SOMETHING to go look at within and hours drive. 

Please look for a decent little Civic.  Good ones ARE out there.  You can't kill them...they'll run forever and if they haven't been trashed, make a great little used car. 

Oh, and OS....You actually can find those little old lady deals.

My wife's Accord came from a 96 year old little old lady that had died and seriously had only driven it to the store and church.  It only had 11 thousand on it, AND it still smelled brand new (still does) and had every option available on it. 

Turned out her son had it...and had it in storage for just short of a year before deciding what to do with it.  He was an only son and his only daughter didn't want it and neither did his wife (she already had a brand new SUV)....so he sold it....AND had it listed for 5 grand less than book.  I couldn't pass that deal up with a 10 foot pole. 

[BF]

Please tell me that you're not going to drive 2 and a 1/2 hours to go and see a Pontiac Vibe.  Please no. 

And that Caprice is simply too old.  Don't do that either. 

[3fan4life]

I have a 2009 Toyota Matrix that I bought on Craigslist.

I got it for enough under retail that the DMV wouldn't believe the price and gave me a hard time when I registered it.

I'm sure that you know that the Vibe is the same car.

Don't be afraid to look at cars that are newer than what you're thinking.

I always look at cars priced up to $1,000 more than I'm willing to pay.

Sometimes people will come down if they realize that you are serious about buying.

Heck, the last Valk that I bought was entirely by accident.

I lowballed the guy expecting him to tell me to get lost and he took it.


I really like my Toyota's, My Matrix has almost 200,000 mi and runs just as good as the wife's 2016 Camry that has 25,000 mi.

I also have a 1996 Geo Prizm with 300,000 + mi that runs like a top.


Come to think of it, If you want her to have a larger car for safety you can't go wrong with a Camry.   

[cookiedough]

this vibe though looks well taken care of  one owner family and 1 grand or more below what a dealer would charge, if not 2 grand lower. 

The moms kid guessing into late 20s I talked to when replacing the battery this winter snapped the rusted out bracket and has not taken the time to get a bracker bar for battery.  He has done most else needing done for a 13 year old car with 140K miles, thus the reason 2 1/2 hour drive.  NO,  NONE around me closest others are 1 1/2 hour drive I live in rural area and anywhere I would go is at least 1 hour drive for sure unless get super lucky which I doubt will find one under 1 hour drive on anything.  His kid must be somewhat mechanically inclined since he installed himself an upgraded aftermarket bluetooth touch screen radio since fairly common read up on the vibes loosing the light on the stock radio going out.

Saw a honda civic was not impressed being 2002 4 door sedan not well taken care of so wasted that time yesterday on that one as well 45 minutes away.  Yah, those are out there as well but gotta get lucky.

I want to take cycle down there with wife but in lower 40s now and wife is warmer weather rider must be above 50 for her. 

Trying to find route to avoid IL tolls on interstate - darn IL tollway system probably going to add 30 minutes onto our drive but near same mileage.

[art]

My last five used dealer bought cars/trucks were junk except for one, a GMC Sonoma which lasted about eight years. The others, a Dodge van lasted 6 months and I lost $10000 due to selling at a big loss and repairs. A Kia lasted a year and I had to repair a blown spark plug,$800 an then a oil pump( had the engine and front Diff all in pieces,POS. I bought my wife a Buick from craigslist for $1500 four years ago and had to replace a starter switch with new key. I bought a Ford F150 for $1500 four years ago and still have it, also bought from craigslist. Oh an another POS was from a dealer, a Chrysler Concord. A beautiful car. I ended up giving it to my married Daughter. It lasted about one year. Another $8000 loss,The engine went out and had to be junked.

[cookiedough]

My last five used dealer bought cars/trucks were junk except for one, a GMC Sonoma which lasted about eight years. The others, a Dodge van lasted 6 months and I lost $10000 due to selling at a big loss and repairs. A Kia lasted a year and I had to repair a blown spark plug,$800 an then a oil pump( had the engine and front Diff all in pieces,POS. I bought my wife a Buick from craigslist for $1500 four years ago and had to replace a starter switch with new key. I bought a Ford F150 for $1500 four years ago and still have it, also bought from craigslist. Oh an another POS was from a dealer, a Chrysler Concord. A beautiful car. I ended up giving it to my married Daughter. It lasted about one year. Another $8000 loss,The engine went out and had to be junked.

dang, got some bad luck there for sure.  

Well,  the drive was not so bad 2 1/2 hours easy driving good roads with so-so traffic though once into IL suburbs of Chicago.  Took car though not the Valk like I wanted to with my wife who is cold blooded.  AS figured, the vibe private party sale was too good to be true about 10 things needed fixing on it and overall not worth buying for 3.2K with 140K miles could see it being a quick money pit investing 500 into it ASAP.  

However, on way back home decided to cross lanes to zoom on into a Toyota dealer who sells new Toyota and older used cars.   Was about to leave when a nice older gent very polite showed us what he had in that 4K range, actually 5K on up.  A nice dark blue 2005 camry 3.0L V6 with 171K miles.  took it for a spin some 8 miles or so and ran VERY nice and smooth and quiet.  ONLY issue is mileage one owner vehicle but ran VERY NICE with that high of mileage on it and the fact there are about 5-6 car keyed 2-3 feet long huge scratches thru to white primer on dark blue color.  ASking 5K.  sales guy said what will it take to sell me that car, I thought I low balled him at 4K thinking No way would they discount it 1 grand off asking price.  They did, now have to decide if 171K is too much mileage for what appears to be a good running 2005 toyota V6 camry in otherwise good shape besides major scratches and will demand the outside rearview mirror being cracked all over replaced if they want a sale even if for only 4K, plus B.S. dealer 160 doc. fee and of course taxes, etc.  being total 4.6K out the door.

I thought for sure 4K would get me outta there quickly since had enough car shopping driving mostly on that disappointing vibe, them thought coming back at 4.5K since my limit is 4K.  NADA guide lists it as avg. clean retail tad over 5K with trade in 3.3K or so with 171K miles still.   About 75% of all camrys are base 2.4L 4 cylinder so not many 3.0L as in the 2005 model or newer 3.3L or now I think 3.5L V6 engine camrys sold.  it ran very well and quiet and no odd sounds or bad brakes or bad shifting/steering and NO rust or many dents much to my surprise.  ONE owner and car fax was clean no accidents just tons of major scratches thru the paint is all.  Newer tires and brakes/rotors as well as belt, looks nice and clean inside and out despite 171K miles and with some major scratches thru paint.  Dealer had to stick 500 in minor repairs on it mostly front fender is all and apparently light bulbs for taillights go out fairly common on that car for some reason?  Supposedly (key word for a dealer) is safety inspected and ran thru their authorized toyota shop, but as said, being so old,  sold AS IS  (minus the drivers side mirror lense I will demand being replaced on their dime for safety reasons it should be fixed regardless if he said NO will not do today)

It has possibilities.  I know any 4 cylinder will be louder and not as smooth running in that 4K range so might get it and take my chances it lasts another 4-5 years for daughter when having over 200K miles on it???  Driving now 2 days and over 400 miles to look at nothing but junk under 5K has me thinking driving VAlkyrie in all future potential car buying deals, at least that way is funner driving home being disappointed after in car shopping.  

Past used car sales buying I am 50/50 one VERY good deal drove the wheels off it over 10 years not costing me a dime besides tires mostly, the other was very low mileage buick regal 3.8L V6 in the 80s was a P.O.S. dealer sold it to me knowing full well it was a clunker which I figured out 2-3 months later paid 5000 thinking low mileage will last me forever, sold for 2500 less than 5 months later, got burned on that one.  

Any older used car regardless where you buy even if knowing it runs well at the time nothing wrong with it can go bad just hope it goes bad 4-5 years from now anything major.  

Looked online all over at even 4 cylinder 2005 camrys and similar mileage 150K on up still going for over 4K so I think a dealer at 4K is not too bad considering a V6 engine.  I think high mileage and tons of scratches thru paint all over is why so cheap, or so I hope?  

Any good/bads from anyone on a 3.0L V6 2005 (or say 2004-2006) camry engine/tranny?   I read up and seems older 1999-2002 3.0L V6 toyota camry engine had excessive sludge buildup ruining engine but mostly due to not keeping up on routine oil changes and in 2003 the toyota 3.0L V6 was slightly improved to cope with owners doing improper long overdue oil changes to reduce sludge build up in motor. 

3.0L V6 is 190hp plenty adequate power for our needs and it ran very quiet and smooth shifting/solid as well for 171K miles being more than I care to have on any used car purchase.  Seen some 2004/05 4 cylinder camrys with 200K on up going for 2800 or so private party, but no V6's must be pretty rare guessing 20-25% of all camry sales. 

[Jess from VA]

Cookie, when you narrow down to one possible car you might buy (say with high mileage), then it is worth your time to Google the year, make model, engine (add the word reviews) and start opening windows (just a search on the particular engine might also bear fruit).  There are often multi year/use reviews of older cars to be found, and (make/model) forums discussing them (and repairs and problems), consumer reports, recalls, etc.

If that 3 liter Camry is somewhat rare for the engine, hopefully you might find some comments on their longevity.  Up or down.

I don't know what if any warranty you can get, but at least try to get 30 days on engine/trans and drive train.  If you guys can't stand behind something for a lousy 30 days, why should I buy it?  I'm not driving it to CA, it will just be a local commuter.  Without 30 days, I might as well go to Craigslist. 

[pais]

    Cookie,
      Here is a web site I've used over the years. Found it to be very helpful and informative.
      http://www.carcomplaints.com
  I've found that about 80+ percent of the time. The info they give you on models is dead nuts on. Hope it helps!
   

   It's good to start looking early and not be in a rush. Good luck!

[cookiedough]

thanks for the tips all.   Not finding much on internet on 3.0L V6 toyota camry engine most are 2.4l 4 cylinders with excessive oil consumption.  Like said, 3/4ths or so are 4 cylinder engines in that 2003-2006 timeframe not many 3.0L V6 engines out there.  I looked up the price difference to get that V6 over base 4 cylinder and is like 3 grand more.  NO wonder why so many 4 bangers.

[cokebottle10]

If you like Toyotas then I would look at the Solara. These are two door Camrys. Most of these had the V6-3 liter with timing belts. Later they went to 3.3 liter with timing chain. They also had the 2.2 four cylinder. All good motors. These cars appealed to mostly older women so they usually are well taken care of with low miles.

When I search Craigslist. I look for "garage kept" That is where this year I found my one owner 2002 Impala with 54K miles. She had stop driving at 90 and her son did not want the car. It was very clean. I paid $3500. But did have to put new tires on it because they were dry rotted with low miles.

Myself I would not buy a car from the rust belt. The first thing I look at is the aluminum on the motor. If it is pitted then I will look for more rust. Rust = no buy to me. If I find a used car I like, then on the test drive I go to a place that will lift it up to take a look under it. That is where you can see if it has been driven hard or well taken care of. $10 to $20 bucks to lift it.

Thanks, David in Fletcher NC.

[cookiedough]

unfortunately in upper midwest (WI/MN area)  is where the rust belt is where I live hard to avoid NO rust.  Also have a lead on a 2008 chevy impala V6 with 111K miles on it for 3800.  Those old lady cars NOT many mileage cars exists, but are few and far between gotta get lucky.

[BobB]

Last spring, I trained in the car you may have wanted.  When the wife was upgraded to a 2015 Toyota Avalon, we got next to nothing for my 2001 Honda Civic Coupe with 140k on the odo.  It was a five speed, in good shape and garage kept.  I'm now driving a four cylinder 2002 Canary that we have had since 2005...

[cookiedough]

Last spring, I trained in the car you may have wanted.  When the wife was upgraded to a 2015 Toyota Avalon, we got next to nothing for my 2001 Honda Civic Coupe with 140k on the odo.  It was a five speed, in good shape and garage kept.  I'm now driving a four cylinder 2002 Canary that we have had since 2005...

what kind of car is a Canary?        Just kidding, I know you meant camry. 

yah,  your 2002 camry is same exact body style as what I saw at dealer for 4K with 171K miles being a 2005 camry LE 3.0L V6 though.  Mileage concerns me at 171K a lot though but is pretty darn cheap at 4K asking 5K at a dealership. 

If it wasnt for the 5 speed in the 01 honda civic coupe,  would make you an reasonable offer on it MORE than what any dealership would give you for sure on a trade in.  My guess is that traded in 2005 camry with 171K the person got TOPS traded in price of 2800 to 3K, if that even,  so they are making near 1K off of the sale still. 

If it had 140K miles and less MAJOR scratches all over thru the paint,  I would be jumping at 4K sale price.

[cookiedough]

drove to local town nearby and for heck of it drove thru car lot and much to my surprise had a 2007 Saturn Auro 3.6L V6 4 door sedan in MINT CONDITION all black with black interior loaded even having 18 inch wheels and power heated DUAL front cloth seats and very fancy chrome rims was like NEW condition with ONLY 111K miles on it.  Asking price 5800 so even though Saturn NO longer in business, going over tomorrow to see if 5K cash deal will have it sold.

I know the dealer pretty well and my guess is NOT, but am going to find out tomorrow before that car is gone.  It is the size of a chevy cruze pretty small but is VERY sharp looking and fairly low mileage NO rust looks like a 3 year old car with 50K miles on it.  Someone took GREAT car on that car inside and out.   No dents and very few minor scratches is all for 10 years old and 111K miles. 

Even if Saturn car company is no longer in business since around 2009, I would hope parts from a GM division  dealer would still be around????????  It appears to be same size as the Pontiac G6 and chevy malibu and guessing buick regal?

[f6john]

You're too generous with your first offer to a dealer. Tell them you would be interested at $3900.00 to get their reaction. I assure you they have plenty of cushion in the price and it's just a hunk of metal to them.

[cookiedough]

You're too generous with your first offer to a dealer. Tell them you would be interested at $3900.00 to get their reaction. I assure you they have plenty of cushion in the price and it's just a hunk of metal to them.

Yep, next time I will keep my mouth shut.

Might have to postpone looking for a used car for awhile.  My 16 year old at 9 p.m. came home after calling me bawling he almost hit a deer with our newer car coming home and ran off the road entirely ripping out the very bottom plastic trim piece on entire side of car, cracking the front fascia in front, and worse of all bending the left front quarter panel around left front wheel so it does not align in the front of the door panel.  Is driveable, but am sure over 1000 in repairs us having a 1000 deductible as well for insurance hoping for the best tomorrow running around yet again for repair estimates.   I sure hope since no paint damage,  a body shop can bend that left front quarter panel in line with the drivers door or is going to be am sure over 1 grand in repairs.

He says it drives fine but is dark out now and will worry about it tomorrow.  He also scuffed the aluminum rim pretty bad and has a ton of weeds and dirt below the entire car in spots.  I hope NO underbody damage judging by the amount of dirt and weeds sticking up under the car had to bottom it out with these new low riding cars only has about 5 inches of ground clearance.

My 18 year old then 16 also did the same darn thing avoiding a deer doing minor damage at night.  She did in high school, along with my son now will NOT be driving at night anymore unless absolutely necessary.  My daughter agreed to it and now so will my son.  Kids nowadays think they can go anywhere at night visiting friends when I was a kid never had a car to drive and never did go out when age 16 or 17 at night anyways.  Prom next week might be out as well, oh well. 

I guess could be lots worse,  he said he was about 1 foot from hitting a utility pole off the road going about 40 mph am sure would be in the hospital right about now and car being totalled.  Or hitting the damn deer doing more damage to our 13K car. 

[f6john]

Been there and done that. I have a 1967 Chevelle that has been sitting in the same spot in the garage since 1997 when my then 16 year old son drove it off into a ditch. I couldn't say much as I wrecked my dads new 1969 Dodge Charger when I was 16 years old. Biggest difference is Dad had full coverage on his Charger but I only had liability on my Chevelle. Everybody survived ok so that's all that matters.

[cookiedough]

Been there and done that. I have a 1967 Chevelle that has been sitting in the same spot in the garage since 1997 when my then 16 year old son drove it off into a ditch. I couldn't say much as I wrecked my dads new 1969 Dodge Charger when I was 16 years old. Biggest difference is Dad had full coverage on his Charger but I only had liability on my Chevelle. Everybody survived ok so that's all that matters.

Maybe I am lucky, but no accidents being my fault anyways in over 30 years driving, nothing I had to pay anyways out of pocket on.  Got quote for new rocker panel and align front quarter panel to match door and will be tad under 1 grand - OUCH.  That plastic rocker panel under both doors on the side is 375 fricking bucks plus labor plus having to repaint it, plus labor involving aligning front quarter panel just a smidge around wheel well to match front door trim opening.    When did plastic and about 10 clips cost 375 fricking dollars?  I was thinking 300 tops.  Knew it was going to be over 600 bucks, but not pushing 1 grand. 

I am hoping the one shop said he could possibly find a used bottom rocker panel for 1/2 price that has all the clips in tact to knock off close to 150-200 bucks which would be great since all it is is plastic being painted to match the gray car. 

Inner fender skirt around front wheel may also have to be replaced, not sure yet is buggered up on very bottom may be able to bend plastic somewhat by heating it up.  That alone in the 900+ price is 150 bucks right there OEM.  I had to replace one once and went aftermarket for 1/2 price of new (so 50-60 bucks) and found out that the OEM fender skirt fits better and is 2xs the thickness as aftermarket knock offs, but then again is just plastic but 1/2 the thickness could easily crack more next time if not OEM being thicker and probably better fitting as well.   For 60 bucks more, is worth buying OEM I think since plan on keeping the car 2-6 more years or so, who knows?  But, for 200 bucks maybe less on a used rocker panel if all clips there and them anyways having to repaint new or used,  I think since is just plastic will go that route.  That is the only repair shop suggested and will see if they can find a used rocker panel to save near 200 bucks of the 900+ bill.  Still OEM, just used one is all.  He said hardest part is making sure all 10 plastic clips are in tact and work.  Then again is plastic and if used say 5-6 years old,  plastic becomes brittle over time of many years and might just be best to get NEW plastic rocker panel for 150 or so bucks more?

[Gryphon Rider]

For body parts that can be unbolted or unclipped to be replaced, as opposed to cutting and welding, I will always get used if I am footing the bill.  If you have a common car in a common colour, you may even get lucky and find one that doesn't need painting because it's already the right colour.

Incidentally, I would not hesitate buying a Saturn in good shape if it were priced right.  I finally sold mine, a '96 SL1, this winter with around 530,000 km on it.  Yes, parts needed replacing over the years, but there was nothing I had to replace over and over again, other than fluids and filters.

[art]

That's too bad about the accident but if they come home in one piece all is good. I've had more than my share of accidents. Most were just car damage but one there were two fatalities,Not good. Another time I ran my Dad new dodge Dart into a fire hydrant. That was not good. The hydrant was OK. He always said ,if you make it to 21 years old you pretty well got it made.

[cookiedough]

For body parts that can be unbolted or unclipped to be replaced, as opposed to cutting and welding, I will always get used if I am footing the bill.  If you have a common car in a common colour, you may even get lucky and find one that doesn't need painting because it's already the right colour.

Incidentally, I would not hesitate buying a Saturn in good shape if it were priced right.  I finally sold mine, a '96 SL1, this winter with around 530,000 km on it.  Yes, parts needed replacing over the years, but there was nothing I had to replace over and over again, other than fluids and filters.

Yep, might just get lucky today.  I called a salvage yard somewhat local and they had the rocker panel in black for my car for 75 bucks vs. buying new for 375 - OUCH,  plastic is expensive.  I am going to pick tomorrow whom I want it repaired at and ship that part to them free of charge since they go to the body shops weekly.  If all 10-12 plastic clamps are in tact and function, I just saved 300 bucks so almost 1/3rd of the cost. Still has to be painted either new or used so crossing my fingers to save 300 bucks out of over 900.   If it does not work if clamps missing, etc.  then still out nothing since repair shop will have them pick it up in another week or so free of charge as well. 

Told salvage yard to hold it until tomorrow so they created a work order for it so technically is mine for a day anyways.

Just wish the inner fender plastic black liner around left front tire I could find used as well.  That piece is also 117 bucks new,  am sure used if not cracked is only 50 bucks tops.  I have put aftermarket inner fender liners on another car once and was pretty flimsy and thin plastic material, but worked for 1/2 price as well.

[cookiedough]

As far as the 2007 fully loaded Saturn Aura 3.6L V6,  I think I will pass after my test drive today.  Dealer asking too much 5.8K thinking of it highly but after driving it, needs front end alignment,  wheel when turning most times make a HUGE knock in the steering shaft not once but twice when straightening out the wheel again after turning.  Plus, over 60 mph the wheel vibrates/shakes enough to notice and when apply brakes at that speed, the wheel also shakes rapidly a smige back and forth.

Sales guy noticed it as well while me driving it all on smooth country roads outside of town.

I would not give 5K for it as it sits and after seeing others in that low mileage same car for 5K asking, dealer can keep it for now will not be for me until they fix whatever is wrong with it. PLUS, 3 owners already on it for 112K miles.

Plus,  one of the body shops I stopped at today told me the Saturn Aura only made 3 years from 2007-2009 cost more to repair since parts are becoming hard to find on a Saturn not made for very long until the demise of Saturn mfg. in 2009.  Thus,  from what I see online that model is cheaper for the most part under 5 grand with under 100K miles on it.

That 2005 Camry LE 3.0L V6 is still high on my list for 4K even though tons of scratches all over body and high mileage of 171K at a dealer.  Rode nice and was good mechanically I think overall.  Some say they will go 300K miles but if it goes 50K and 4-5 years with no issues, I will be happy.

[phideux]

Too bad you ain't closer to the East side of the country, I could have made you a deal on a 2011 HHR. Great car. I personally put 90K miles on it with it needing nothing but brakes and a crank sensor($15.00 and 10 minutes to put it in and clear the code.)

I drive almost 80 miles each way to work, and that thing got mid to high 30s/MPG. A couple months back, going to work, a girl made a left in front of me, long story short, it ended up being a hood, grill, fender and bumper cover. Frame and everything else fine. They fixed it, while I was waiting, I bought a new car.

Anyone near the East coast looking for a car???

[cookiedough]

Never knew a chevy HHR with their 4 cylinder got high 30s for mpg. I can see their versatility though being a somewhat square box car with room inside much like that PT cruiser.   I drove a PT cruiser though and did not care for the ride (loud engine and short wheelbase harsh ride-no power) or skinny and slippery flat leather seats it had in it. 

[phideux]

Never knew a chevy HHR with their 4 cylinder got high 30s for mpg. I can see their versatility though being a somewhat square box car with room inside much like that PT cruiser.   I drove a PT cruiser though and did not care for the ride (loud engine and short wheelbase harsh ride-no power) or skinny and slippery flat leather seats it had in it. 

Yeah that HHR is killer on gas. It sucks around town, gets mid 20s but going to work, 55MPH highway most of the way, cruise set on 60MPH it got mid 30s, plus like you said, lots of room inside. Unlike the PT cruiser though it is alot longer, handles good, the engine is quiet and has plenty of get up and go for a 4 cylinder. I thought the insurance co was gonna total it and bought a new Rogue, but they fixed it. According to their valuation fixing it was $3,000.00 which they said was 40% of the value, which according to them makes it a $7,000.00 car. I wish I could sell it for that. Looking around they are going in the $4500-$5500 range. Anyone on here want to check it out, I'll sell it to a fellow Valk person for $4,000.

[cookiedough]

opinions:  if same year say 2003 thru 2005 honda accord 4 cylinder vs. toyota camry 4 cylinder 4 door sedan both in same condition, same mileage, which one would you get?

See two":  2003 honda accord and 2003 toyota camry same mileage, etc.  both around 3900 in price with 120K or so mileage.

The honda accord owner says both good cars but the accord has a timing chain vs. a timing belt in the camry which needs replacing he said every 100K miles or so, vs. NO issues with timing chain on the accord.  Not sure if true or matters?  Camry is a couple inches longer and larger trunk and interior, but not by much.

will try to pick which one is in better condition and runs better is the key.

[solo1]

i read cookiedough's thread on looking for a used car and it reminded me of my search for a Miata two years ago.

Before I started my search I enrolled for a months worth of Autocheck.  Similar to Carfax but I heard it was better for older used cars.

I knew what I was looking for, a NB Miata.  Second generation of Miatas. NA was first (bugeye), NB 1999 to 2004, NC 2005 to 2015, ND newest.  I knew my price range. I did ALL of my looking online, by checking vin numbers, and running them through Autocheck.

A BIG eye opener.! Per Autocheck, many were lease returns, some were even SALVAGED and on the market again., some were owned by private individuals.  Most were at least two owners.  I looked for maintenance records, mileage, and 'red flags'  

At the end of three weeks of non productive and noting pissed off overselling and lying, I finally found one at a big dealer in Columbus Ohio.  This dealer was a Mazda, Ford, and Chrysler place with 78 acres of used cars and almost 100 used car salesmen!. I was leary.  The pic of the Miata was good. It was advertised as a 2002 standard model with a five speed manual and low mileage at 29,000 miles.  It was priced much higher than blue book. Auto check said it had three previous private owners and two previous loans.  the service record was good, no accidents either. I did a couple of calls and talked to a salesman and decided to drive 150 miles to take a look............I'm glad that I did.

I drove the car. Mileage was correct.  however, it was an LS with a six speed manual, limited slip diff, and all the bells and whistles . The dealer didn't know what he had. The dealer had performed a Mazda 20 point check.  The tires were dry rotted and the dealer had replaced them before I even drove it,  with new UHP summer tires, no rim protectors here!

The tires told me that this car probably had the origianl tires and, even with three owners, hadn't been driven hard.  The clutch had a slight judder but that disappeared after warmup.  I knew that some 2002's had it but no big deal, just a quirk.

I offered less than their the price but they wouldn't budge. I went over the car again. no signs that it had ever been driven in winter, everything looked new, even the radiator was still black (the plastic top and bottom tanks would turn greenish brown if they was brittle, a common problem). Theo nly thing that I found was that the exhaust heat shield was slightly rusted.

I bought it and drove it home in a heavy rain, no leaks anywhere,  The ride was harsh, but at home I found that the tires had 35psi, not the 26psi recommended by Mazda for this 2300 pound car.

Overall, I'm well satisfied.  It took a month to find and lots of online looking but the car is everything that I thought it would be. So ends this very longwinded discussion about buying a used car. LOL

[cookiedough]

Yep, I talked to a car salesman seemed very knowledgeable and he too just told me yesterday that autocheck is more accurate and usually has more information on older cars vs. just carfax.    Most dealers have carfax reports vs. autocheck records.  Most carfax reports ONLY list from what I have seen is a few oil changes and maybe brake pads/rotors or belt replacement and of course the numerous registrations every year, NOT much else. 

by the way, he did have a nice looking 2003 corolla for 4K with only 120K miles and of course he called me back and it SOLD yesterday.  This is the 3rd car sort of been interested in for that 3-4K range that sold with lower 120K miles or so in that 2003-2005 range.  Currently have my eye on a 2003 honda accord 4 cylinder 128K asking 3900 for only one rust spot and very dirty drivers seat private party sale.  I talked to him on phone and he is getting a front end alignment done today and having shop check the brakes being private party sale.  Will see I guess if can look at it before that one is gone since it also has remote start which would be nice for my daughter in college able to start car from dorm room to warm up in parking lot before she gets to the car in cold WI winters?  KBB and Nadaguides have say a 2003-2005 camry or accord avg. clean retail listed at around 5K with trade in 3500 tops so I do not think 4K tops is too bad spending if runs well.    Another dealer has a 2008 chevy impala V6 with 111K miles for 3900 as well being newer same mileage almost though. 

That nice looking very clean 2007 saturn aura asking too much at 5.8K (am sure will not go below 5K having to stick steering shaft in it now)  is out with nice 3.6L V6 252hp.  dealer called me back though after test driving it 2 days ago and agreed, they ordering new steering column shaft (or part of it) since when drove with salesman,  turning wheel knocked SEVERELY almost every turn plus pulled to left and steering wheel shuddered some braking and NOT braking over 60 mph.  And YET the dealer put it on lot said on sticker everything checked out - Dealers do NOT do crap to the vehicles prior to selling.  Same as that 2005 camry 3.0L V6 at larger toyota dealer with 171K miles would let me have it for 4K.  I said fix the broken outside mirror on drivers side (50 bucks for broken lense) and fix/adjust the drivers door window track since catches and bangs severely going up into track out of whack for sure.  Salesman said sorry,  being sold AS IS.  I said both are safety issues fix and then I will consider buying for 4K.  If dealer is NOT willing to spend 200 bucks on a 4K sale, piss on them as well. 

[solo1]

As you probably have found out, don't trust salesmen and car dealers.

BTW, a four cylinder isn't all that bad.  Better to go that route if you can get a good car cheaper.  I also think that big cars would not be suitable for your daughter.

I was a Toyota fan but I'm now a Mazda fan, same excellent reliability but, since they are a smaller mfr, people tend to ignore them.   I also like their Zoom zoom, better handling.  You might try for a Mazda 3 or 6.

[cookiedough]

As you probably have found out, don't trust salesmen and car dealers.

BTW, a four cylinder isn't all that bad.  Better to go that route if you can get a good car cheaper.  I also think that big cars would not be suitable for your daughter.

I was a Toyota fan but I'm now a Mazda fan, same excellent reliability but, since they are a smaller mfr, people tend to ignore them.   I also like their Zoom zoom, better handling.  You might try for a Mazda 3 or 6.

I thought about a used older mazda since I like the looks of them, but I think, do not quote me, older mazdas had a joint venture with ford in some models or were owned partially by ford joint venture.  Also,  my neighbor is now bitching his newer 2014 mazda CX-5 is shot not once, but twice now with only 65K miles just out of 60K tranny warranty going on 2nd tranny all hwy miles first one was replaced under 36K warranty, not 2nd one at 65K.  Plus, his 2015 mazda 3 hatchback he is thinking tranny is now going out on that only 45K miles or so. 

I do agree 4 cylinder smaller car is best for daughter in college tight parking spots in town driving mostly.   corolla, civic or possibly older camry or accord.  If it stops raining tomorrow, I might take cycle 40 miles drive later in the day and look at a guys 2003 honda accord LX grey 4 door sedan with 128K miles has a lot of new parts on it and sounds like his moms car well taken care of with 2.4L 4 cylinder engine with only 1 rust spot on right rear fender, typical rust spot here in WI.  He is even today he said getting a front end alignment and brakes checked out at the same time asking 3900 seems reasonable?  The drivers light grey cloth seat though is filthy dirty but hopefully the cloth seat can use carpet foam cleaner and get some of the dirt up off it???

[solo1]

Sounds like you might've found a nice car for her. Hondas are good. About your neighbor's problem with Mazdas, I've had no problem and I'm on my fourth Mazda.  Two used Miatas , one Mazda Three and the Mazda Six.  Granted, I traded in the Three for the Six at low mileage.  I regularly talk to my Mazda tech and he says no out standing problems with Mazdas in general.

Awhile back I helped my son-in-law buy a new Toyota truck.  The tranny went out just out of warranty.

S*** can happen with any product.

[Ramie]

I wouldn't be afraid to look at anything with GM's 2.2 L engine.  I've had a saturn and currently have an 05 malibu with that engine.  175,000 and still runs great, uses a little oil but still get 30 to 35 MPG.

[cookiedough]

like Solo said,   _hit can happen with any vehicle.  What some mazdas go good for one, the other like my neighbor has 2 transmissions go out both each around 30K miles, bad luck for sure.

As far as GMs 2.2L engine, same thing.  One person has great luck, others like me buying a brand new chevy cavalier in mid 1990s for under 10K and the engine was junk at 20K miles had to have a new engine put in it and got rid of that car soon afterwards..

everyone has their good/bad stories.  So far since 2007,  I have had super good luck with toyota and as of 2014 as well with hyundai vehicles. 

Anyone can drive a used car off the dealer lot or private party sale,  then in 3 weeks something major goes wrong unexpectedly or it may last another 100K miles with no issues.

[cokebottle10]

When I get cloth seats that are badly stained I will remove all the seats and use simple green. I will soak them with the simple green and then hose them down until no more dirt comes out. Then use the wet/dry vacuum to get most of the water out. After that lay them out in the sun to dry completely. On a sunny warm day they will dry in less then eight hours. If they are power seats then you can remove the seats from the power rack.  You can also pull the carpet and do the same to it. Afterward use some type of Scotch Guard or they will stain easily.

I have also cut the hog rings and pull the covers off when they were really bad. Then reinstalled new hog rings to get them back on when dry.

Thanks, David in Fletcher NC

[cookiedough]

When I get cloth seats that are badly stained I will remove all the seats and use simple green. I will soak them with the simple green and then hose them down until no more dirt comes out. Then use the wet/dry vacuum to get most of the water out. After that lay them out in the sun to dry completely. On a sunny warm day they will dry in less then eight hours. If they are power seats then you can remove the seats from the power rack.  You can also pull the carpet and do the same to it. Afterward use some type of Scotch Guard or they will stain easily.

I have also cut the hog rings and pull the covers off when they were really bad. Then reinstalled new hog rings to get them back on when dry.

Thanks, David in Fletcher NC

Not sure I am that ambitious to take out seats in front to clean them as you say.  Well,  had appt. at private party sale at 6 p.m. yesterday on a  2003 honda accord 4 cylinder 128K miles asking 3900.  Talked to him yesterday and said I would call him between 4:30 and 5 p.m. to make sure he will be home at 6 p.m..  I texted and called both before 5 p.m. asking him to call me back or text me to make sure he will be home since 1 hour drive and he was not sure what time he will be home so we agreed on me calling him up before 5 p.m. so can be there at 6 p.m. one hour away.  He never responded so at 5:15 p.m. texted him back saying getting too late can come up today, he never responded and saw this morning the accord is now off craigslist.  He sold it from under me am sure.  Jerk!  Glad I did not make a drive up there or I would have chewed his butt off for wasting 2 hours and 15 bucks in gas for nothing.  simple phone call would have been nice - Jerk!  I say honor first call and appt. especially since 6 hours away from talking to him is all.  I can see next day if someone comes that same day to sell it, but only 6 hours away and HE had plans could not make it (or so he says) until after 5 p.m.


Oh well, got a lead on a newer 2007 honda civic 4 door sedan LX with more mileage at 151K silver color appears to be in good shape at dealer but NO info. on it but 3 owners is all I know which was leased vehicle originally until 20K miles and then last owner only owned it 1 1/2 years so that makes me iffy on buying it.  NO records or anything at all so sort of iffy at best.  ISSUE is 2 1/2 hour drive away and wanted 4900, I said 4K is my limit, he came back at 4.3K, I said NO, but he said cannot do 4K but then I said sight unseen 4.1K tops since 2 1/2 hour drive one way or not going to come down.  Sales mgr. agreed to sell at 4.1K which according to Nada or kbb is worth 5K or so.  Private party sale is 3.8K range or so and dealer sales guy they never ran it thru the shop at all which IS ALSO A RED FLAG IF YOU ASK ME an authorized GMC/buick dealership (not honda) did not want to even bother safety inspecting it or anything.  

Most reputable dealers at least look it over for 1-2 hours going thru the basics and this dealer is NOT doing it on this 2007 civic - that makes me wonder why not????????????  He said reason is because set price at auction pricing and they normally do not sell older cars like this at their dealership with 151K miles on it so set price at auction pricing to flip it quickly or send it to auction soon.  

I am not taking car or truck down ONLY my Valkyrie and ONLY if not raining which it appears it will be on monday and tuesday MORE DARN RAIN.  I need to put MORE miles on my cycle and NOT my vehicles.  

Pics seem decent but not until I test drive a TON will I know if worth it making sure brakes and steering good and NO oil/fluid leaks or ripped panels or major dents or cracks in body or interior all badly scuffed or stained.  Sales guy assured me is very clean and well kept for a 3rd owner car but NO mechanical record at all, not even oil changes or brake pads/rotors (both of which can be done easily myself) - YAH, HAVE HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE...  ???  Plus,  he threw in on phone today a 170 document fee but they said I would have to to pay the WI sales tax since in different state but they can title it for me but I would have to pay the sales tax to state of WI, NOT to the dealer.  That MAKES ME WONDER WHY DOING IT THAT WAY AS WELL?  A document fee is FOR ALL PAPERWORK TO BE DONE AT THE DEALER, INCLUDING PAYING WI SALES TAX for me, me paying dealer.  Seems fishy to me.   doc fee he said is for title transfer but if doing title transfer, then that is also paying the WI sales tax to state of WI, correct??  I will not pay 170 bucks for a bogus document fee since they are doing NO paperwork besides their purchase contract is all stating AS IS NO warranty and guessing just signing off on the back of the BETTER BE CLEAR title,  then me having to take that title to WI DMV to get a WI license plate/new title-registration fees.    170 document fee to me means DEALER DOES ALL THE DOCUMENTS, NOT ME.  Rip off if you ask me.  I think I will hold firm at 4K then.

[3fan4life]

opinions:  if same year say 2003 thru 2005 honda accord 4 cylinder vs. toyota camry 4 cylinder 4 door sedan both in same condition, same mileage, which one would you get?

See two":  2003 honda accord and 2003 toyota camry same mileage, etc.  both around 3900 in price with 120K or so mileage.

The honda accord owner says both good cars but the accord has a timing chain vs. a timing belt in the camry which needs replacing he said every 100K miles or so, vs. NO issues with timing chain on the accord.  Not sure if true or matters?  Camry is a couple inches longer and larger trunk and interior, but not by much.

will try to pick which one is in better condition and runs better is the key.

Both are good cars and you can't go wrong with either one.

If they were absolutely equal cars I might go with the Honda because of the timing chain instead of the timing belt.

This site has info about which cars have timing belts and which ones have timing chains:

http://yourcarangel.com/2012/06/toyota-timing-belt-and-chain-list/

It looks like a 2003 Camry 4cyl has a chain while a 2003 V6 has a belt.

I really love my Toyota's but I would avoid any of their V6 engines.

According to this 2002 was the last problem year:

http://www.autosafety.org/toyota-broadens-sludge-repair-program/

If I were looking at a 2003 model I would use the vin # to determine if it was made in late 2002 or late 2003.

[cookiedough]

good info - thanks,  both the 03 accord and 07 civic have the chain, but the 3.0L V6 camry has belt - good to know.

Darn rain tomorrow,  my luck that 2007 honda civic for 4.1K will be gone.  Not a fan of riding cycle in the rain.

Yah, heard about 2002 and under sludge buildup in toyota vehicles supposedly helped fix with new design in 2003.  I think most of that sludge buildup is due to not proper oil changes being done on time as recommended.  

I called another honda dealer today and the sales guy said they have a 2000 accord for 4K but has 180K in a 2 door coupe with leather as well.  I asked if timing belt or chain and he said he got from service dept. timing chain.  He is WRONG thanks to that link above since 2003 on up accords have chains on their 4 cylinders.  Make you wonder if service dept being a HONDA car dealer knows anything?    That link is a little sketchy since does not list say a 2003 honda civic which I found out is belt.   2006 on up model year civics being timing chain. 

I might just blow 300 miles tomorrow on cycle and drive 150 miles one way to look at that 2007 honda civic for 4100 at dealer but has 151K miles on it.