Charlottesville (VA) 'Unite the Right' rally

[Savago]

I have being following the news, as they come, on what happened in Charlottesville (VA) this weekend.

The photos of neo-nazis and white supremacists walking in the streets and engaging in unruly behavior and brawling in a park are disturbing. The nazi and confederate flags are now all around the world in the newspapers and TV.

Some murderer from Ohio used his car to maul people who were walking in the street, claiming the life of a 32 years old american woman. Last time I checked, that was the favorite M.O. of terrorists in Europe.

Yesterday my daughter asked me: " _ Why are there such bad people in USA?".

I thought about it for whole 5 seconds and answered to her that this are very angry and deeply misguided people, whose behavior is exactly the opposite of the American values. That hopefully the criminals would face justice and this sad event could be used for people to think about what is wrong in America today and what could be done to fix it.

Funny thing: it was thanks to USA that the nazis were beaten. It puzzles me how someone can be a neo-nazi/white supremacist and at same time claim to be patriotic.

What are you guys thoughts on the subject?

[Savago]

A co-worker from Cambridge (UK) sent me this link:


Needless to say that the British are not particularly fond of the jerries (or nazis, being american or not)...

[Savago]

Her name was Heather Heyer:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/heather-heyer-charlottesville-victim.html

Her last FB post: " _ If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

[Robert]

Many people are touched by this, but I wonder why with anifta and all the hate groups against Trump stirring up trouble has no one on the left seemed to be touched about those hurt from that? I am in no way condoning Violence on either side is not the way to do things. But we have seen so much violence in the form of Ferguson, all the black lives matter movements, killing of cops, hating white males, the declaring war on the US history and monuments, where is the outrage over this, just to name a few. I also did not see the police as in so many other protests stepping in and stopping and arresting anifta or other people, why? People are going to protect their own right to free speech and holding rallies, anifta did not have to be anywhere near that protest and should have been separated.

I dont see you answering a question like, what was she doing there? Was she a member of anifta?

Here is a message from anifta that says we are in a war, so they are openly declaring war.

There are casualties in war and even in actions of war they are openly declaring war on the monuments that have noted American history that people want also. They are also declaring war on white males even in this video. The phrase never let a crisis go to waste and using this girl in publicity is exactly what her life was worth to those that protest.

ANIFTA Message to America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMR0ZbMY0WM


While her death is tragic so is what is happening in the US with all the riots and hate from blue lives matter to hating white males to just stirring up trouble. We have seen these funded hate groups do this very same thing in other countries to change the structure of the country. Maybe Savago that is why you wanted to leave your country. 

What I find particularly disturbing is the Police stand down, the funding of these groups and no one is charged, since the funders are complicit in this girls death either by the Rico act or just by condoning and being a part of this. That means the corruption goes up the ladder of either government or into higher society that has the money. As we see and maybe confirm that public statues are taken down by government officials without a vote by the public, also not a democratic way.

One more thing that makes me wonder, they declared the protest by these white groups as unlawful even when they went and got a permit and it was upheld in the courts but why did they not declare anifta unlawful when they did not get a permit and did not go to court? Laws are supposed to be unbiased.

These questions beg to ask who is the real hate group here?

[Oss]

please correct me if I am wrong but was this the chronology?

Political correctness attempts to destroy history
Hate group asks for permit to march or assemble as protected by 1st amendment
Permit granted
Permit revoked by police
Demonstration anyway
counter demonstration allowed without permit and violence ensues

Yes there is enough hate there to go around for everyone
No there was not enough common sense or courtesy for anyone

That anyone would want to carry a nazi flag tells me they are
both ignorant of history and full of hate & bigotry.
Bet u none of the protesters on the hate group  side fought in WWII or understand it or lost a loved one in that war
An anti fascist fascist is an interesting concept but I really think their methods are the same as the fascists at present, wish they put their energy into all the true enemies of democracy such as the media, the people committing terrorists acts as well as peaceful protests.

[Robert]

One more thing Where today do we see the destruction of monuments that have historical significance, YES thats right ISIS, enough said. A society that seeks to deny its past is one that is doomed to fail.

One last thing

I was looking at the headlines today and see that this dead girl is the poster child for BLM and anifta now. BLM A group that historically does nothing for the blacks and the crime, drugs, violence present in the black community.

You know what I want to see in the news today ++++++++++++++++++++

Hillary Clinton arrested along with James Comey and two former DOJ attorney generals NOW THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING THE US BETTER.

[The emperor has no clothes]

One more thing Where today do we see the destruction of monuments that have historical significance, YES thats right ISIS, enough said. A society that seeks to deny its past is one that is doomed to fail.

One last thing

I was looking at the headlines today and see that this dead girl is the poster child for BLM and anifta now. BLM A group that historically does nothing for the blacks and the crime, drugs, violence present in the black community.

You know what I want to see in the news today ++++++++++++++++++++

Hillary Clinton arrested along with James Comey and two former DOJ attorney generals NOW THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING THE US BETTER.

Classy 

[Robert]

Classy 

Thanks I thought so 

I would have told my daughter that these are two of the many hate groups and people in the US that are trying to threaten, harass, and kill people to change the US instead of the correct way through laws and petitions. That the reason we have police and controls to stop these type of things from happening and allowing US citizens to have a say in their government by the correct channels is so there is an orderly process for people to get the changes they want. Stay away from these type of groups and people knowing they are mislead and in error and want to destroy the current system of government with anarchy. Just like a pen and paper or threats or violence there is always someone to come along with a bigger pen or bigger threats and only united and standing by the laws and constitution afforded the US citizen can law and order be maintained through changing the desires of the people. We as a nation have always stood up to bullies from other nations now we need to stand up to bullies again only inside the US. Also if you are around these bad people when they are causing violence you may get blamed or hurt also so stay away and know the right way to do things, so you don't end up like this poor girl. If you want a current example of what happens when corruption is in government and hateful people are in and the rule of law breaks down then look at Venezuela.

[98valk]

actually there have been a few car attacks in the last 7 yrs. attacking different races of peoples, some by muslims, which the media covers up real quick and non-muslims.  recently in NY 5/17, muslim convert, and yrs ago down south one of the first reported.
this nut job is a non-muslim white guy, media and race baiters are drooling at this one, and if he is a gun owner, Nirvana!

"Friends described her as a passionate advocate for the disenfranchised"
 that's kinda of funny because if u read about the groups she was protesting against, they feel as a white race, "disenfranchised" and that their white race is being destroyed and attacked on many fronts.
some of it is true and some is not.   some of it stems to the assault on men in general on many fronts, including recent medical news sperm counts are very low aka low testosterone, caused by the soy industry, soy is in many, many foods and the synthetic xenoestrogens and in many, many things, soaps, fertilizers etc.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So, how was she supposed to "stand up to these bullies" ? She was walking down the street showing protest against neo-Nazis, KKK.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOCKING UP CLINTON, OR ANY OTHER OPPOSITE YOUR POLITICS.

[nomoreharleys]

Wasn't this started over the removal of the General Lee statue in Va?

[hubcapsc]

I represent the tail end of generations of people who have revered The
Confederate Battle Flag ever since the first one was sewn up. It is my
flag, and I didn't give it to Dylann Roof or the car guy from Charlottesville.
Did you?

I'm glad I'm old and don't have children and that I know Oss and Rdabull
and Sinkhead and Smokin' Joe and others like them...

-Mike

[98valk]

how about that un news media?, calling it a domestic terrorist act, but crickets when a black man was shooting police officers in dallas.

[Serk]

[Valkorado]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

[Robert]

So, how was she supposed to "stand up to these bullies" ? She was walking down the street showing protest against neo-Nazis, KKK.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOCKING UP CLINTON, OR ANY OTHER OPPOSITE YOUR POLITICS.

I will answer but with hesitation

She is not innocent to be there, I would not go to those protests and not expect trouble. She is the poster child for a corrupt organization that should be held responsible in her death since there was no reason for them to be there.

The media and government will use this as a reason/excuse to take the statue away instead of doing the right thing and allowing a vote on it. Hence trampling on all those rights of those who think the statue is ok, me included. This is ruling by intimidation not by law and is not a democratic process. This is special interest just like Hillary and Comey getting off and does not follow the rule of law. I would also say that the whole south racist thing is a false flag also since if you know history it was not about one issue. It was also about the south not making money from cotton and being taxed twice on it.

Normal people have to follow the rule of law these people don't. This is the short answer.

We as US citizens have fought intimidation on all levels so why do you think this or any other corrupt special interest would be a welcome thing pushing one groups rights above another?

Ferguson let them blow off steam don't arrest them  remember those words by the Mayor?

If you want a peaceful example and how to stop hate look at the PGR and the Westboro Baptist church

[old2soon]

MAYBE by erasing history in a couple generations you can change some perceptions of history. A FACT that can NOT be changed is the Civil War was fought as many other wars have been fought. Removing statues plaques monuments Flags and desecrating graves and Holy sites will NOT in any way shape or form CHANGE History one iota. Personally I can Not comprehend the mind set for any of the violence that is ongoing here in the U S of A and around the world. I do NOT agree with the removal of the statue that on the surface appears to be the root cause of all the violence in VA. The Stars and Bars do Not offend me. It IS a part of the fabric that IS Our-U S of A-History. Denying it does NOT change it. Someone mentioned isis as using similar tactics to remove "stuff" they do not agree with. My neighbor-until Mother Nature tore it up-ASKED me and the neighbors if his Stars and Bars would offend us-NOBODY denied him his Flag-it flew til the weather took It's toll. Funny part is-I'm on my 3d Stars and Stripes cuz of the weather. I Hope and PRAY that weather is the ONLY thing that ruins MY Stars and Stripes. RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

[Willow]

...  
I'm glad I'm old and don't have children and that I know Oss and Rdabull
and Sinkhead and Smokin' Joe and others like them...

Sinkhead?  Oh, that's cold.  LOL!

Concerning the original post and thread, the death of anyone by unjustified violence is tragic and deplorable.  The outcry would be more meaningful if the denouncers had included BLM, antifa and other hate groups.  Hate, or at least a generalized hate to a group or race, is wrong regardless of to whom the hate is directed.  To publicize actions by one side while turning a blind eye to another is wrong.

It was also wrong to decide to destroy the monument to American history and an American hero.  That was what sparked the conflict between these two side.  Make no mistake there were good people and hate groups present on both sides of this conflict.

What is somewhat ironic is that if one took the time to read the works of Robert E. Lee one would find he was not a racist.

[Serk]

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

So then would it be fair to say that Micah Xavier Johnson is representative of everyone in the BLM movement, right?

Hate begets hate, this isn't helping us move forward as a nation, from either "side"...

[old2soon]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

              I prefer to think of it as a Seriously misguided individual. IT-NOT him-a male of the species-NOT a man. He has a GOD given Right to his views. He has NO right to kill murder or eliminate anyone. He will have a lot of friends in prison. He WILL also have a lot of enemies in prison. RIDE SAFE.

[hubcapsc]

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

To me he is representative of the stupidest of murderers, do you equate them? Or is it something else?

-Mike

[Valkorado]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

I wouldn't know I can't stand them.  Who do the hateful and violent counter rioters represent?  The guy in the Challenger was obviously -- challenged -- for lack of a better word.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So, how was she supposed to "stand up to these bullies" ? She was walking down the street showing protest against neo-Nazis, KKK.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOCKING UP CLINTON, OR ANY OTHER OPPOSITE YOUR POLITICS.

I will answer but with hesitation

She is not innocent to be there, I would not go to those protests and not expect trouble. She is the poster child for a corrupt organization that should be held responsible in her death since there was no reason for them to be there.

The media and government will use this as a reason/excuse to take the statue away instead of doing the right thing and allowing a vote on it. Hence trampling on all those rights of those who think the statue is ok, me included. This is ruling by intimidation not by law and is not a democratic process. This is special interest just like Hillary and Comey getting off and does not follow the rule of law. I would also say that the whole south racist thing is a false flag also since if you know history it was not about one issue. It was also about the south not making money from cotton and being taxed twice on it.

Normal people have to follow the rule of law these people don't. This is the short answer.

Ferguson let them blow off steam don't arrest them 

If you want a peaceful example and how to stop hate look at the PGR and the Westboro Baptist church

She did nothing wrong. You can try to spin it however you want.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

To me he is representative of the stupidest of murderers, do you equate them? Or is it something else?

-Mike

The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

I wouldn't know I can't stand them.  Who do the hateful and violent counter rioters represent?  The guy in the Challenger was obviously -- challenged -- for lack of a better word.

I can't stand them either.

[Robert]

She did nothing wrong. You can try to spin it however you want.

She just happened to be in the area sight seeing 

Your bias/prejudice is the exact reason this happened, BTW.

Can you say distraction from real news like the process to prosecute Hillary or look at Loretta Lynch.

[hubcapsc]

What is somewhat ironic is that if one took the time to read the works of Robert E. Lee one would find he was not a racist.

In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge,
that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is
useless to expatiate on its disadvantages... I think it however a greater evil
to the white than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted
in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The
blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically.
The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a
race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation
may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.

Robert E. Lee, 1856

"racist" is such a loaded word...

-Mike

[Robert]

The top U.S. military officer says the United States wants to peacefully resolve a deepening standoff with North Korea but is also ready to use the "full range" of its military capabilities in case of provocation.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wasn't aware anyone said Robert E. Lee was a racist.

[The emperor has no clothes]

She did nothing wrong. You can try to spin it however you want.

She just happened to be in the area sight seeing 

Your bias/prejudice is the exact reason this happened, BTW.

Can you say distraction from real news like the process to prosecute Hillary or look at Loretta Lynch.

Peaceful protest is not illegal. We should have more of it.

[Serk]

Peaceful protest is not illegal. We should have more of it.

Antifa, BLM and the other racist/communist groups that were counter-protesting are not known for being particularly peaceful, and she would have known this going in.

NOT justifying her death, but I will stand by my statement that both sides are violent useless idiots in this kerfuffle.

[Varmintmist]

Yes there is enough hate there to go around for everyone
No there was not enough common sense or courtesy for anyone

That anyone would want to carry a nazi flag tells me they are
both ignorant of history and full of hate & bigotry.
Bet u none of the protesters on the hate group  side fought in WWII or understand it or lost a loved one in that war
An anti fascist fascist is an interesting concept but I really think their methods are the same as the fascists at present, wish they put their energy into all the true enemies of democracy such as the media, the people committing terrorists acts as well as peaceful protests.

Two sides, same coin. Both hate groups, the only difference is that one wears white sheets and the other wears black masks.

[Rams]

https://crowdsondemand.com/

YMMV

[Willow]

I wasn't aware anyone said Robert E. Lee was a racist.

The statue of Robert E. Lee was being destroyed for claimed reasons of racial equality.

[Rams]

Racism???

Hmmm.......  Pretty sure that goes all directions, no finger pointing here.   Evidence of other perspectives is readily available.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=57182

[Moonshot_1]

We got a bunch of fools descending on Charlottesville with the goal of removing all doubt that they are indeed fools.

We got a bunch more fools descending on Charlottesville with the goal of removing all doubt that they are fools by thinking they can "peacefully" confront such fools.

The people of Charlottesville get caught in the crossfire.

Yeah, I condemn both and all the fools involved.

As to the woman who was killed and the driver who caused her death.

The woman may have been one of the people from Charlottesville caught up in the crossfire of the weekend. Or not.

What we do know is that this guy drove a car into a crowd and it resulted in injuries and a death.
We are making an assumption that this was related to the events of day.

Maybe some white supremacist called him ugly and stupid and he got mad about it and went nuts.
Maybe his girlfriend broke up with him.

Seems odd that a "white supremacist" would kill and injure a bunch of random white people.

I believe the catalyst for much of this is social media. Lots of reports being based on Facebook pages and tweets and such. Folks go out into the real world and do stupid things to get approval from their virtual friends. Lots of stupidity fueled by egos.

The death of the woman in Charlottesville is a tragedy.
The driver must be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. This will require an investigation to ensure what the motive and intent was in this heinous criminal act.

The simple fact that must be understood here is that no side came to Charlottesville to do anything peaceful. This was about confrontation and violence. If they wanted to make a peaceful statement a counter rally in a different town or city would have been the choice.

Nope, everyone came to Charlottesville looking for a fight and the city and people of Charlottesville lost.

I condemn all those involved in this travesty.





  

[MP]

The idiot who drove the car into the crowd does not represent white supremacists any more than the nutcase who shot up the republican lawmakers' baseball practice represented the Democratic party.  Neither reflect our shared values, and both were fueled by deranged individuals.

In this case the protests got way out of hand, and as others have said the police should have done a better job planning and separating the groups.  It was known well in advance there would be large groups of protesters and counter protesters.  Obviously, there were some in both groups who did not come to peacefully protest.  There were people in both groups who came to whoop chili.

Trump said (paraphrase) the hatred and bigotry on many sides is unacceptable and condemned it in the strongest of terms.  Is that really such an awful statement?  He said we need to respect each other.  He said ideally we should love each other, but we must strive to respect each other.  

The nerve of the guy...

I beg to differ. The guy in the Challenger is representative of White Supremacists.

REALLY?  ALL White Supremists, who I DETEST by the way, are planning on killing people with their cars?

That means EVERY black who attends a BLM rally, believes white people should be killed, as a number of BLM leaders have stated such.

Do you REALLY believe that meathead?  If you do, my opinion of you drops a LOT.  Even though we disagree a lot, I do respect most of your opinions.  I surely do NOT respect that one.

And, only a tiny percentage of the original march, was made up of white supremists.  They basically invaded the original march.

[Rams]

We got a bunch of fools descending on Charlottesville with the goal of removing all doubt that they are indeed fools.
.
I believe the catalyst for much of this is social media. Lots of reports being based on Facebook pages and tweets and such. Folks go out into the real world and do stupid things to get approval from their virtual friends. Lots of stupidity fueled by egos.

The death of the woman in Charlottesville is a tragedy.
.
The simple fact that must be understood here is that no side came to Charlottesville to do anything peaceful. This was about confrontation and violence. If they wanted to make a peaceful statement a counter rally in a different town or city would have been the choice.

Nope, everyone came to Charlottesville looking for a fight and the city and people of Charlottesville lost.

I condemn all those involved in this travesty.
  

Agreed.....

[Varmintmist]

We got a bunch of fools descending on Charlottesville with the goal of removing all doubt that they are indeed fools.

We got a bunch more fools descending on Charlottesville with the goal of removing all doubt that they are fools by thinking they can "peacefully" confront such fools.
  

There was never any intent on the part of some of them to peacefully confront anyone. The ANTIFA and BLM have shown in every "protest" that they are willing to assault anyone and there has not yet been a place where they are called on the carpet as hate groups. The KKK is better behaved than these entitled dirtbags.