Trump and the NFL?

[Rams]

The simple issue here is the first amendment. Whether the players are disrespectful or not. When a president says there should be repercussions, he doesn't understand the bill of rights. I served (non combat) during Viet Nam. I don't feel disrespected because I understand his cause. They're doing it in a public forum to get attention.

You have a right to your opinion.

I've lost several friends, brothers in arms in Viet Nam, in peace time incidents, in the middle east and one in Central America.   To me, that flag and anthem mean more than my own life.   Many have given more than I.   Failure to show respect to the flag that my brothers in arms gave all for is equivalent to pissing on their graves.   Screw them.   

While I have been a KC Chiefs fan my entire life and I'd love to watch them play, I won't do it.   I sincerely hope these overpaid entertainers lose all their fans.   I know some won't boycott the NFL for reasons that I simply don't understand.   

Those entertainers have huge resources they could dump into education programs, community projects, child care, legal assistance, etc....   for the people they supposedly are protesting for but, they won't take from their own pocket to help those they say need help.    Screw them.   I can survive without the NFL, looks  like I may become a NASCAR observer in the near future.   At least NASCAR fans, teams and owners get it.   

Ron, you would be wrong in your assumptions. There are many who give plenty.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/919472-the-most-charitable-players-in-the-nfl

Didn't say some didn't.   Don't really give a damn either.   

Never said they don't have the right to make assholes of themselves. 

But, I have the right to my opinion, while I may be more vocal than some, many feel the same way I do.   Screw them.   Won't be watching any NFL game.   Roger Goodell said the president's comments showed an "unfortunate lack of respect for the NFL."   Respect is earned and the NFL actions and words are a huge mistake.   Hopefully, their revenues will reflect how Americans feel about it.

While I do think President Trump has a big mouth, I agree with him on this topic.    Based on what I'm reading, I may have to become a NASCAR fan since I'll be having nothing to do with the NFL on the days I'm confined to the house. 

[Hooter]

Don't get into NASCAR, it's screwe'd up now as well.

[bg]

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states:
“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.” .......
I would say this sums it up. So why is there any question as to what should happen.
Remember the NFL yeah good times!

[bagelboy]

I come from a big football family. Watching the NFL for almost 50 years.  After seeing the disrespect to our country, flag and veterans, I've stopped watching. I only saw opening night of Giants Vs Dallas. I have not watched since, and personally it hasn't really been something I regret. I golfed today with my daughter and son in law instead of watching. Last week I met up with some old friends and went cruising on our bikes . I'm tired of the players becoming bigger than the game. When the players become bigger than the game, the game is finished. I'm tired of the NFL putting up with players beating their wives, dog fighting, and disrespecting our flag. Some of my friends told me they are no longer watching anymore after the Steelers sitting in their locker room for the anthem today. The NFL don't care if I watch, and I don't care anymore to watch. Everyone is happy! Hopefully, my friends and I, and more like us will send our own message!

[Hooter]

Have never seen the rules if you will pertaining to the anthem and the NFL. Appears as though the NFL can't even adhere to their own rules.  ONLY to satisfy the few that have brought their own ax to grind into a professional platform where it does not belong. Looks as though endorsers haven't weighed in yet either?  At least not as of yet. Maybe if sales of certain products decline because of this issue it may change? It will be interesting to see where this all goes!

What is this showing the youth of today!?

[Rams]

Have never seen the rules if you will pertaining to the anthem and the NFL. Appears as though the NFL can't even adhere to their own rules.  ONLY to satisfy the few that have brought their own ax to grind into a professional platform where it does not belong. Looks as though endorsers haven't weighed in yet either?  At least not as of yet. Maybe if sales of certain products decline because of this issue it may change? It will be interesting to see where this all goes!

What is this showing the youth of today!?

Advertisers/Sponsors will react when ratings and revenues start to diminish.

I encourage all Veterans and Patriots to tune out the NFL.   This conduct will only drive a deeper wedge in racial issues.   

[MP]

The simple issue here is the first amendment. Whether the players are disrespectful or not. When a president says there should be repercussions, he doesn't understand the bill of rights. I served (non combat) during Viet Nam. I don't feel disrespected because I understand his cause. They're doing it in a public forum to get attention.

No, it is not.  The First Amendment does NOT apply to companies or individuals. It applies to Government.

Businesses have every right to tell employees what they can and cannot say.  Lots of examples in the news almost every day where someone is fired because of what they say on Facebook or Twitter, not even at work. None of these have gone to court, because the employers have that right.

The NFL and the owners also have that right, to tell the players how to respond to the National Anthem, and the results if they disobey.

Perfectly legal. Don't feel bad, surveys have shown about 75% of our citizens get this wrong.

[MP]

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states:
“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.” .......
I would say this sums it up. So why is there any question as to what should happen.
Remember the NFL yeah good times!

I do not have a rule book.  But, it has been said, that this is NOT in the rule book, that it is fake.  Personally, I do not know.  It should be.

[Chrisj CMA]

Go Cowboys. They announced yesterday that any player will be fired if they don't stand and honor the flag.  I turned off SNF last night after that sorry display

[baldo]

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states:
“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.” .......
I would say this sums it up. So why is there any question as to what should happen.
Remember the NFL yeah good times!

Where did this come from? I'm curious to see an official confirmation.

[Hooter]

There is nothing in the 2017 rule book about player position during the National Anthem. 

[Rams]

I went to the NFL rule book and spent some time searching for this rule.   
Couldn't find it.   That doesn't mean it's not there, it's a pretty big rule book.
It also doesn't mean the NFL hasn't recently removed it from observation.   That would not surprise me.

Regardless though, it's still not a first amendment issue.   The NFL can sanction it's teams and players in what they do and say.   The First Amendment applies to the government, not individuals or companies.

[G-Man]

Wouldn't it be better for the country if they didn't play the National anthem at a football stadium? Then, the protesters wouldn't be protesting, instead would be playing happily. Then, the folks who love to watch millionaires play a boys game wouldn't have to see anyone disrespectful and could watch, happily. This should make the whole country happy.

If no anthem is played, then no protest.   So it's the anthem's fault?  

[G-Man]

"Will everyone please stand as you are able or kneel and remove your caps for the playing of our national anthem"

Perfect, brother.  These morons wouldn't know what to do.

[Serk]

Wow, we've truly entered Bizarro World...

The one Steeler player who was man enough to stand, alone, is now taking heat from the head coach of the team for disrespecting the team... by standing for the anthem...

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/25/steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-raps-alejandro-villanueva-for-standing-for-national-anthem.html

[G-Man]

It's a win, win. Everybody involved in playing or watching wins. Players are happy they don't have to be subjected to patriotism and the watchers don't have to pay money to see players disrespect our country. I don't watch myself, but I hate to see people unhappy when it's just a game anyway, isn't it?

Not to pull an example from the show South Park, but what if before the anthem is played, the announcer says.
"Will everyone please stand as you are able or kneel and remove your caps for the playing of our national anthem"

This So called "protest" is obviously about getting attention, remove the physical notion that is causing the controversy and the movement dies. I don't think it's win/lose situation.

That would work for me. They could also say raise your fist, or a middle finger. That would be a nice touch. As long as everyone is happy, is what matters.    I won't be watching.

You do know that part of their protest is that little flaggy thingy you have by your name.  If you want everyone to just be happy, why are you demonstrating disrespect to so many?  

[G-Man]

I agree with Serk,

It is a right for players to do so. Regardless, if player use Trumps remarks to retaliate, I see the NFL ratings dropping more than they already have.

The crap show has already started between the Ravens and Jaguars in London. Kneeling for the national anthem but standing for God Save the Queen.

When the American people don't buy tickets and turn the TV off and it starts to effect wallets, change might happen.

I'm amazed that nobody responded to this, at all.

We fought a war to be free from the tyranny of an oppressive nation and won our independence, yet these morons stood quietly in respect for that nation's anthem while disrespecting, and embarrassing their own country.

I'd like to say, forgive them because they know not what they do, but that just wouldn't be true.  Just one more thing to divide us. 

[Rams]

I saw this in the comments section after an article on a website.....


I need to share this.. I didn't write it.. but it says what our flag stands for so truly!  You want to take a knee?

Take a little trip to Valley Forge in January. If you don't know where that is, just Google it from the sidelines. Hold a musket ball in your fingers and imagine it piercing your flesh and breaking a bone or two. There won't be a doctor or trainer to assist you until after the battle, so just wait your turn.Take your cleats and socks off to get a real experience. Then take a knee.

Then, take one at the beach in Normandy where man after American man stormed the beach, even as the one in front of him was shot to pieces...the very sea stained with American blood. The only blockers most had were the dead bodies in front of them, riddled with bullets from enemy fire.

Take a knee in the sweat soaked jungles of Vietnam. from Khe San to Saigon...Anywhere will do. Americans died in all those jungles.There was no playbook that told them what was next, but they knew what flag they represented. When they came home, they were protested as well..and spit on for reasons only cowards know.

Take another knee in the blood drenched sands of Fallujah in 110 degree heat..Wear your Kevlar helmet and battle dress...Your number won't be printed on it unless your number is up! You'll need to stay hydrated but there won't be anyone to squirt Gatorade into your mouth. You're on your own.

There's a lot of places to take a knee. Americans have given their lives all over the world. When you use the banner under which they fought as a source for your displeasure, you dishonor the memories of those who bled for the very freedoms you have. That's what the red stripes mean. It represents the blood of those who spilled a sea of it defending your liberty.

While you're on your knee, pray for those that came before you, not on a manicured lawn striped and printed with numbers to announce every inch of ground taken...but on nameless hills and bloodied beaches and sweltering forests and bitter cold mountains...every inch marked by an American life lost serving that flag you protest.

No cheerleaders, no announcers, no coaches, no fans...just American men and women...delivering the real fight against those who chose to harm us...blazing a path so you would have the right to "take a knee."

You haven't an inkling what it took to get you where you are...but your "protest" is duly noted. Not only is it disgraceful to a nation of real heroes, it serves the purpose of pointing to your ingratitude for those who chose to defend you under that banner that will still wave long after your jersey is retired...

If you really feel the need to take a knee, come with me to church on Sunday and we'll both kneel before Almighty God. We'll thank him for preserving this country for as long as He has. We'll beg forgiveness for our ingratitude for all He has provided us. We'll appeal to Him for understanding and wisdom. We'll pray for liberty and justice for all...because He is the one who provides those things.

But there will be no protest. There will only be gratitude for His provision and a plea for His continued grace and mercy on the land of the free and the home of the brave. It goes like this...

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[Jess from VA]

 

[signart]

It's a win, win. Everybody involved in playing or watching wins. Players are happy they don't have to be subjected to patriotism and the watchers don't have to pay money to see players disrespect our country. I don't watch myself, but I hate to see people unhappy when it's just a game anyway, isn't it?

Not to pull an example from the show South Park, but what if before the anthem is played, the announcer says.
"Will everyone please stand as you are able or kneel and remove your caps for the playing of our national anthem"

This So called "protest" is obviously about getting attention, remove the physical notion that is causing the controversy and the movement dies. I don't think it's win/lose situation.

That would work for me. They could also say raise your fist, or a middle finger. That would be a nice touch. As long as everyone is happy, is what matters.   I won't be watching.

You do know that part of their protest is that little flaggy thingy you have by your name.  If you want everyone to just be happy, why are you demonstrating disrespect to so many?  

I know ignorance abounds in their protest (and way beyond football it seems) but this American flag flew over slave ships carrying slaves from Africa to the northern U.S. and flew over slavery in this country for 90 years if that's what you are getting at.


I honor my ancestors that carried a flag with St Andrews Cross into battle. My little thingy was never a flag that flew over a country where slavery was legal. My ancestors also carried the U.S. flag into every war in U.S. history.  I will fight whoever over either flag.

[grandpaweaver]

Being born in NE Ohio by default I became a Browns fan, of course back then from the 50's until they moved to Baltimore, They were worth my support. I do not watch their games anymore but heard the whole team did not stand. My thinking then was to fire them all, we would be just as good and win just as many games with replacement players.

GO TRIBE

[Serk]

And now time for a levity break from this ridiculous distraction, er, I mean debate:

[old2soon]

I saw this in the comments section after an article on a website.....


I need to share this.. I didn't write it.. but it says what our flag stands for so truly!  You want to take a knee?

Take a little trip to Valley Forge in January. If you don't know where that is, just Google it from the sidelines. Hold a musket ball in your fingers and imagine it piercing your flesh and breaking a bone or two. There won't be a doctor or trainer to assist you until after the battle, so just wait your turn.Take your cleats and socks off to get a real experience. Then take a knee.

Then, take one at the beach in Normandy where man after American man stormed the beach, even as the one in front of him was shot to pieces...the very sea stained with American blood. The only blockers most had were the dead bodies in front of them, riddled with bullets from enemy fire.

Take a knee in the sweat soaked jungles of Vietnam. from Khe San to Saigon...Anywhere will do. Americans died in all those jungles.There was no playbook that told them what was next, but they knew what flag they represented. When they came home, they were protested as well..and spit on for reasons only cowards know.

Take another knee in the blood drenched sands of Fallujah in 110 degree heat..Wear your Kevlar helmet and battle dress...Your number won't be printed on it unless your number is up! You'll need to stay hydrated but there won't be anyone to squirt Gatorade into your mouth. You're on your own.

There's a lot of places to take a knee. Americans have given their lives all over the world. When you use the banner under which they fought as a source for your displeasure, you dishonor the memories of those who bled for the very freedoms you have. That's what the red stripes mean. It represents the blood of those who spilled a sea of it defending your liberty.

While you're on your knee, pray for those that came before you, not on a manicured lawn striped and printed with numbers to announce every inch of ground taken...but on nameless hills and bloodied beaches and sweltering forests and bitter cold mountains...every inch marked by an American life lost serving that flag you protest.

No cheerleaders, no announcers, no coaches, no fans...just American men and women...delivering the real fight against those who chose to harm us...blazing a path so you would have the right to "take a knee."

You haven't an inkling what it took to get you where you are...but your "protest" is duly noted. Not only is it disgraceful to a nation of real heroes, it serves the purpose of pointing to your ingratitude for those who chose to defend you under that banner that will still wave long after your jersey is retired...

If you really feel the need to take a knee, come with me to church on Sunday and we'll both kneel before Almighty God. We'll thank him for preserving this country for as long as He has. We'll beg forgiveness for our ingratitude for all He has provided us. We'll appeal to Him for understanding and wisdom. We'll pray for liberty and justice for all...because He is the one who provides those things.

But there will be no protest. There will only be gratitude for His provision and a plea for His continued grace and mercy on the land of the free and the home of the brave. It goes like this...

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

                          Damn BRO-whoever wrote this gits it! And I had to dry the ole peepers a time or three cuz the letters were a tad swimmy. Have an Uncle I NEVER knew died at Normandy. Lost a Cousin and a High School Classmate in Nam. Half Brother was occupation forces Japan in War II. He would have been in the first assault wave of landing craft had we not drooped the bombs. So I Believe you could say I'm a LOT invested in Old Glory. I barely checked scores this weekend. I USED to be a football fan. USED to be. RIDE SAFE.

[phideux]

I still don't get it. A bunch of mostly black millionaires, playing a game in an industry that is almost 70% black, protesting about how blacks are so oppressed.
If blacks are so oppressed, how did they make it to where they are????? How did they create an industry where blacks make up almost 70% of that industry, and make millions, when the black part of the population is 13%????? This country is the land of opportunity for everyone, it is what you make of it. If you want to live your life as a welfare breeder, a crackhead, the local alcoholic, go right ahead. If you don't, work hard at your goals, stay in school, don't breed until you can support yourself and a family, don't do drugs.
Sounds to me like the white folks are being oppressed in pro sports. I think we need Affirmative Action in pro sports to make it fair to everyone.

BTW, I will refuse to watch any sport or any other form of entertainment where they allow this blatant disrespect to our flag, country and all those who fought, bled and died for it. You are on the clock to play ball and entertain people, protest on your own time.

[Chrisj CMA]

Simple Solution pass a mandatory salary cap at say 200,000/year.  Most of these cry babies would quit!

[Oss]

NFL

No f ---in loss

Players should protest on their time not MY dime

Commissioner is like the person who never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity

Turn and bend over for people who assault spouses, commit crimes, ignore their own complicity in head trauma, gouge customers, fine players for personal shows of emotion like twerkin in end zone but stand idly by while their own rules and the common DECENCY and RESPECT is demeaned

They are disgusting

Oss

Heard Jerry Jones however say he will fire anyone who doesnt stand.  Thank you Texas

[G-Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM

[Serk]

Heard Jerry Jones however say he will fire anyone who doesnt stand.  Thank you Texas

Supposedly that quote from Jerry Jones is fake.

Guess we'll find out tonight.

[Wizzard]

I do not watch any sport to get political statements or demonstrations. I am done with the NFL, have not watched a single game all season. I will do the same with any other sport that demonstrates the same disrespect. The way I got it figured, they need me, I do not need them at all. You want to demonstrate, then go do it on your own time out somewhere else. Not on the job.

And I do not have a problem with what Trump said. He just said what I feel. 

[DirtyDan]

We have a phrase is pipefitting

"Here is your money now get the $&%+ off the jobsite"

Dan

[gregk]

I have seen my brothers Vets voice their option both ways and will not look down upon them but I will stand as a proud American an never neil.

[Hooter]

Wonder how long it will be before we hear from uncles Jesse and Al?

[specialdose]

    Never been a football fan. Been to lots of Super Bowl parties to do precisely that, party. I salute those who love the game but will not watch because their core values are stronger than

their love for the game.... That is something seriously missing in society today..... Core values.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

Heard Jerry Jones however say he will fire anyone who doesnt stand.  Thank you Texas

Supposedly that quote from Jerry Jones is fake.

Guess we'll find out tonight.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/the-truth-about-what-jerry-jones-said-regarding-the-nfl-national-anthem/

[dreamaker]

Myself I generally don’t pay attention to athletic politics.  Far as Football I would rather watch paint dry.  But on the issue of kneeling during the National Anthem, yes I think it is disrespectful, but I think it is their right to expression. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression is like a door that swinging both ways, we may agree with their views, or we may strongly disagree their views.  But that is the nature of the right to freedom, whether we agree or not.

Far as Trump, saying they should get fired or black listed because of their behavior is totally wrong. That seems like a form of “Censorship” “If you don’t agree with us we will censor you”.  That is like freedom can only be viewed in a positive or popular way, and if we don’t like it, you are gone.  Even though our right to freedom can work in our best interests, it can also produce things we don’t agree with.

I myself would never do something like that or disrespect this country, one thing that they don’t take in consideration. They’re success, wealth, opportunity and freedom has been provided to them by this country, in other countries if the pulled that crap, they just might disappear.  Patience!! Their action will bit them in the ass one day!

[Moonshot_1]

If I were an owner of an NFL team and the players on my team knelt for the Anthem, I'd forfeit the game to show my support of the players.
The players would probably lose out on playoff chances and extra money but what is that compared to their cause?

The whole thing is quite despicable really. Rationalizing disrespect. Dishonoring the game, tradition, and the very people who make them what they are.

Got no time for these guys

[Willow]

I'm amazed at how many people have no idea what the right to free speech means.  It does not mean that I have the freedom to express myself wherever and however I wish.  What id does mean id that the government will have no laws restricting my free speech.

If the President had called for a law to punish the disrespectful athletes for their expression that would be wrong.  He did not.  If a team owner or a slew of fans decides to apply a consequence for the athletes' disrespectful expressions that is not a violation at all of the right to free speech. 

I agree with the President.

[Hooter]

OK, I will throw this out there. Does everybody here believe that all players understand what they are protesting?   "The shooting of a black perp by a white police officer. The officer was exhonerated of all charges.

Kapernick was protesting this situation and it's outcome along with the treatment of all black people in general. Has he ever offered an explanation of his actions? Or, is this his reasonong? Is this the true reason why all are now protesting? Do they really know? Or is this a monkey see monkey do thing? Is this just retaliation against Trumps statement only? People just seem to want to protest anything anymore weather it makes sense or not. They even go to the extreme of burning and destroying their own home towns. I can't get a grip on this mentality, none of it.

[old2soon]

My Brother and I were discussing this kneeling bull crap and both of us have worked some similar jobs. We were Required by the Company-folks who actually made out the paychecks-to follow certain RULES they had laid down even Before either one of us were employed by the Company. We were made privy to these Rules as a Condition of employment. Might be wearing of certain Safety equipment might be How to make Sure/Certain a confined space is safe to enter and one job in particular I had was to be clean shaven when I delivered to a refinery or a chemical plant-so the Scott Air Pak would seal to my face and help prevent toxic "stuff" from killing me. I took this job and promptly removed my facial hair. The Point I'm attempting to make is this-It is Entirely up to the employers of these people to either make this disrespecting our National Anthem Protest go away and disappear forever or to let it go on-as it is/has been-and keep showing the American public zackly How Large a hemarhoid they actually ARE-owners as well as the "team". A rhoid irritates an A-hole and I KNOW I can be and have been an A-hole at times and I am now cuz they are in Fact irritating me. I can NOT in and good frame of my mind condone or forgive them. I buried an E-7 U S Navy Chief the other day that in Death is More of a Hero than ANY of these game players are that now breathe the Free air of the U S of A. That Chief SERVED this Country for 20 years of his Life. All these dumbkoffs do is play a kids game. RIDE SAFE

[da prez]

It used to be that athletes were heros to the younger generation. I read earlier that a little league or young foot ball players were allowed to did-respect the National Anthem.
  I am a veteran and still proud. Sometimes it is hard not to slap someone that really needs it. Give them their rights to be a$$holes because it is in the Constitution. (just ask them , they will tell you)
  Where is the respect going to be in the next few years. I think the military should be manditory for all when they get out of high school. If they drop out , you go into the military right away.
  The younger generation is a bunch of wossies. ( I would say sissies , but do not want to p-o the women) I call a person a friend for only one reason. Would you watch my back in combat , you do not need to fight , but let me know you have my back.

                                              da prez