Media ignoring 1 crucial factor in Florida school shooting

[98valk]

http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/
In the case of Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old Florida mass-shooter, his mother’s sister, Barbara Kumbatovich, told the Miami Herald that she believed Cruz was on medication to deal with his emotional fragility.

This is strikingly similar to reports right after the 2013 school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, when Mark and Louise Tambascio, family friends of shooter Adam Lanza and his mother, were interviewed on CBS’ “60 Minutes,” during which Louise Tambascio told correspondent Scott Pelley: “I know he was on medication and everything, but she homeschooled him at home cause he couldn’t deal with the school classes sometimes, so she just homeschooled Adam at home. And that was her life.” And here, Tambascio tells ABC News, “I knew he was on medication, but that’s all I know.”
Fact: A disturbing number of perpetrators of school shootings and similar mass murders in our modern era were either on – or just recently coming off of – psychiatric medications. A few of the most high-profile examples, out of many others, include:

    Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox – like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of antidepressant drug called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999 during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves. Luvox manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox – that’s one in 25 – developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.
    Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, California, in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban “semiautomatic assault weapons” in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.
    Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Oregon, and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.
    In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Illinois, killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the antidepressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.
    In Paducah, Kentucky, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school’s lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.
    In 2005, 16-year-old Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota’s Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.
    In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Kentucky, killing nine. Prozac-maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.
    Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danysh’s description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: “I didn’t realize I did it until after it was done,” Danysh said. “This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun.”
    John Hinckley, age 25, took four Valium two hours before shooting and almost killing President Ronald Reagan in 1981. In the assassination attempt, Hinckley also wounded press secretary James Brady, Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy and policeman Thomas Delahanty.
    Andrea Yates, in one of the most heartrending crimes in modern history, drowned all five of her children – aged 7 years down to 6 months – in a bathtub. Insisting inner voices commanded her to kill her children, she had become increasingly psychotic over the course of several years. At her 2006 murder re-trial (after a 2002 guilty verdict was overturned on appeal), Yates’ longtime friend Debbie Holmes testified: “She asked me if I thought Satan could read her mind and if I believed in demon possession.” And Dr. George Ringholz, after evaluating Yates for two days, recounted an experience she had after the birth of her first child: “What she described was feeling a presence … Satan … telling her to take a knife and stab her son Noah,” Ringholz said, adding that Yates’ delusion at the time of the bathtub murders was not only that she had to kill her children to save them, but that Satan had entered her and that she had to be executed in order to kill Satan.Yates had been taking the antidepressant Effexor. In November 2005, more than four years after Yates drowned her children, Effexor manufacturer Wyeth Pharmaceuticals quietly added “homicidal ideation” to the drug’s list of “rare adverse events.” The Medical Accountability Network, a private nonprofit focused on medical ethics issues, publicly criticized Wyeth, saying Effexor’s “homicidal ideation” risk wasn’t well publicized and that Wyeth failed to send letters to doctors or issue warning labels announcing the change.And what exactly does “rare” mean in the phrase “rare adverse events”? The FDA defines it as occurring in less than one in 1,000 people. But since that same year 19.2 million prescriptions for Effexor were filled in the U.S., statistically that means thousands of Americans might experience “homicidal ideation” – murderous thoughts – as a result of taking just this one brand of antidepressant drug. Effexor is Wyeth’s best-selling drug, by the way, which in one recent year brought in over $3 billion in sales, accounting for almost a fifth of the company’s annual revenues.
    One more case is instructive, that of 12-year-old Christopher Pittman, who struggled in court to explain why he murdered his grandparents, who had provided the only love and stability he’d ever known in his turbulent life. “When I was lying in my bed that night,” he testified, “I couldn’t sleep because my voice in my head kept echoing through my mind telling me to kill them.” Christopher had been angry with his grandfather, who had disciplined him earlier that day for hurting another student during a fight on the school bus. So later that night, he shot both of his grandparents in the head with a .410 shotgun as they slept and then burned down their South Carolina home, where he had lived with them. “I got up, got the gun, and I went upstairs and I pulled the trigger,” he recalled. “Through the whole thing, it was like watching your favorite TV show. You know what is going to happen, but you can’t do anything to stop it.” Pittman’s lawyers would later argue that the boy had been a victim of “involuntary intoxication,” since his doctors had him taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft just prior to the murders.

Paxil-TWPaxil’s known “adverse drug reactions” – according to the drug’s FDA-approved label – include “mania,” “insomnia,” “anxiety,” “agitation,” “confusion,” “amnesia,” “depression,” “paranoid reaction,” “psychosis,” “hostility,” “delirium,” “hallucinations,” “abnormal thinking,” “depersonalization” and “lack of emotion,” among others. The preceding examples are only a few of the best-known offenders who had been taking prescribed psychiatric drugs before committing their violent crimes – there are many others.

Whether we like to admit it or not, it is undeniable that when certain people living on the edge of sanity take psychiatric medications, those drugs can – and occasionally do – push them over the edge into violent madness. Remember, every single SSRI antidepressant sold in the United States of America today, no matter what brand or manufacturer, bears a “black box” FDA warning label – the government’s most serious drug warning – of “increased risks of suicidal thinking and behavior, known as suicidality, in young adults ages 18 to 24.” Common sense tells us that where there are suicidal thoughts – especially in a very, very angry person – homicidal thoughts may not be far behind. Indeed, the mass shooters we are describing often take their own lives when the police show up, having planned their suicide ahead of time.

Never lost a lawsuit

Pharmaceutical manufacturers are understandably nervous about publicity connecting their highly lucrative drugs to murderous violence, which may be why we rarely if ever hear any confirmation to those first-day reports from grief-stricken relatives who confide to journalists that the perpetrator was taking psychiatric drugs. After all, who are by far the biggest sponsors of TV news? Pharmaceutical companies, and they don’t want any free publicity of this sort.

The truth is, to avoid costly settlements and public relations catastrophes – such as when GlaxoSmithKline was ordered to pay millions of dollars to the family of 60-year-old Donald Schell who murdered his wife, daughter and granddaughter in a fit of rage shortly after starting on Paxil – drug companies’ legal teams have quietly and skillfully settled hundreds of cases out-of-court, shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars to plaintiffs. Pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly fought scores of legal claims against Prozac in this way, settling for cash before the complaint could go to court while stipulating that the settlement remain secret – and then claiming it had never lost a Prozac lawsuit.

Which brings us back to the key question: When are we going to get official confirmation as to whether Nikolas Cruz, like so many other mass shooters, had been taking psychiatric drugs?

Get David Kupelian’s latest blockbuster, “The Snapping of the American Mind: Healing a Nation Broken by a Lawless Government and Godless Culture.” Also available in e-book, audiobook and autographed versions.

[John Schmidt]

What I keep hearing in many of the cases mentioned and again with the Florida shooting; "did we miss something?"  After reading what and how the clues were followed up on ahead of time, I'm beginning to think it's more like the clues were "dismissed" rather than "missed." Just my opinion.

[old2soon]

I am sorry this turd went off and killed all these innocent folks. But as USUAL the "media" is blaming the weapon. As I understand it he purchased his weapon with out problem. A drug to help you quit smoking as I recall mentioned on the T V ad about mental episodes as a possible side effect. Also reported after the doer left the scene of carnage he created he went shopping. We also KNOW there are "folks" who can NEVER let a good crisis go to waste!  Course lotsa "folks" ain't interested in facts. Let's just use the same old knee jerk reactions we always use. I too am tired of young lives being cut short for any reason. More laws will NOT in any way shape or form keep an unbalanced or determined doer from doing harm to others if the doer so desires. Certain factions choose trucks others choose explosives still others choose fully automatic weapons and others use poisin gas. If ANYONE has a Good workable plan to thwart a doer BEFORE he goes off I've yet to see or hear of it. My heart goes out to the Families of the victims in this latest tragedy. Parents should Not bury their children.  RIDE SAFE.

[rainman]

Don't tell me it's a gun control issue. Don't attempt to even hint that it's the NRA or Trump that is causing this. This.. THIS is a mental health issue that is NOT being addressed in America. We all had bullies in school, we had "weird" kids but they didn't gun down other students. THIS is directly related to a combination of mental health, and not following the laws we already have.
 Poor parenting, and the pussy-fication of this nation. When our children don't know what bathroom to use, are offended by everything, and see that they are exonerated from their actions because they can blame it on others.. THAT In itself IS the problem. Murder is illegal. Drugs are illegal. Yet they still happen. Calling for stronger gun laws isn't the answer. We arll ready have alot of gun laws it is the system's start inforcing and follow the ones we already have. Do you kown there is a law that can stop a person from buying a single bullet. didn't think you did because no one inforces it. It isn't the gun.. start applying the laws we already have

[hubcapsc]

I was eating lunch in Clemson yesterday. The folks at the
table next to me were talking about how it is time to melt
down all the guns that they think other people shouldn't have.

I didn't hear any of them talking about how they were going to
be the ones to collect the guns for melt down though...

-Mike

[Gavin_Sons]

I was eating lunch in Clemson yesterday. The folks at the
table next to me were talking about how it is time to melt
down all the guns that they think other people shouldn't have.

I didn't hear any of them talking about how they were going to
be the ones to collect the guns for melt down though...

-Mike

I would hate to be on the collecting end of that scenario. 

[Serk]

I was eating lunch in Clemson yesterday. The folks at the
table next to me were talking about how it is time to melt
down all the guns that they think other people shouldn't have.

I didn't hear any of them talking about how they were going to
be the ones to collect the guns for melt down though...

-Mike

Five easy steps to a gun free America...

(Language warning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoFKskvSq4

[Moonshot_1]

I would agree that the increase in pediatric psycho. medication use and teen violence, school shootings in particular, is not coincidental. Add to that the prevalence of social media, violent video games, gang culture, and other violence based exposures.
Most folks, including teens can handle such things fine. But the ones who have had the psych meds, maybe not so much.

[Savago]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

[Jess from VA]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault rifle is just fine...
 

In my day, you could be drafted to serve and die in Vietnam at 18, but not drink alcohol till 21.  But the draft is long gone.

You can buy rifles and shotguns at 18, but handguns only at 21.  I'm not sure if making it 21 for all firearms would solve anything, but I'd be willing to listen.

And lets be clear, a semiauto AR 15 is not an assault rifle (requires full auto, all the time or by selector switch (and 21) - those are highly regualted).  

[RDAbull]

In a free society there are many rules:

There are some rules that are stupid,
  A. not addressing mental health problems because it might "label" someone.
There are some rules that you live by,
   A. the Bill of Rights.
And there have to be some rules that you have to be willing to die for.
   A. The Bill of Rights.

Come take my rights at your own risk.

[Serk]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault rifle is just fine...
 

I don't know many 18 year olds that can afford the $20,000+ that an assault rifle costs.

[Gryphon Rider]

[Serk]

That give me an idea... My drill might have been born as an AR15, but it identifies as a drill now, and should be treated as one!

[Gavin_Sons]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

So it's ok with you that 18 year olds can go to war and kill but not buy their own weapon to protect themselves here at home? How many kids die each year in car wrecks? Lets ban getting your drivers license until you're 21 also. This is not a gun issue no matter how bad you liberals want it to be.

[98valk]

1965
   

With the passage of Medicaid, states are incentivized to move patients out of state mental hospitals and into nursing homes and general hospitals because the program excludes coverage for people in “institutions for mental diseases.”



1967
   

The California Legislature passes the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act, which makes involuntary hospitalization of mentally ill people vastly more difficult. One year after the law goes into effect, the number of mentally ill people in the criminal-justice system doubles.

1977
   

There are 650 community health facilities serving 1.9 million mentally ill patients a year.

1980
   

President Jimmy Carter signs the Mental Health Systems Act, which aims to restructure the community mental-health-center program and improve services for people with chronic mental illness.

President Jimmy Carter Library of Congress

1981
   

Under President Ronald Reagan, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act repeals Carter’s community health legislation and establishes block grants for the states, ending the federal government’s role in providing services to the mentally ill.  Federal mental-health spending decreases by 30 percent.

President Ronald Reagan Library of Congress

1984
   

An Ohio-based study finds that up to 30 percent of homeless people are thought to suffer from serious mental illness.

1985
   

Federal funding drops to 11 percent of community mental-health agency budgets.

1990
   

Clozapine, the first “atypical” antipsychotic drug to be developed, is approved by the FDA as a treatment for schizophrenia.

2004
   

Studies suggest approximately 16 percent of prison and jail inmates are seriously mentally ill, roughly 320,000 people. This year, there are about 100,000 psychiatric beds in public and private hospitals. That means there are more three times as many seriously mentally ill people in jails and prisons than in hospitals.


2009
   

In the aftermath of the Great Recession, states are forced to cut $4.35 billion in public mental-health spending over the next three years, the largest reduction in funding since deinstitutionalization.

2010
   

There are 43,000 psychiatric beds in the United States, or about 14 beds per 100,000 people—the same ratio as in 1850.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/timeline-mental-health-america/

[Bighead]

When a bomb kills people they blame the bomber.
When a drunk kills someone while driving they blame the Drunkard.
When a gun kills someone they blame the gun.


A very liberal guy at work yesterday brought up the idea of gun bans...he was me with the pther 6 people in the room,probing him about all manner of questions on what a total gun ban would do. His answers were so  stupid we all had to leave the poor man alone.

I simply ask if he wanted to ban water because people drown in it
Also told him I could run over waaaay more than 17 in my truck before being stopped so why not ban motor vehicles?
Also ask if guns were banned should LEO's still have them and he said yes...I ask why no one else would have them  he had no answer
Dont get me wrong this event is tragic but that gun did NOT GO TO THAT SCHOOL and randomly start shooting kids......it was the idiot holding it.... that is what they dont understand....cocaine is illegal look how well that law works
The gov cant stop drugs or people from getting here across boarders why would one think guns couldnt do the same ? The criminals will ALWAYS have them no matter what that is why they are criminals they dont care what the law says.

[98valk]

When a bomb kills people they blame the bomber.
When a drunk kills someone while driving they blame the Drunkard.
When a gun kills someone they blame the gun.


A very liberal guy at work yesterday brought up the idea of gun bans...he was me with the pther 6 people in the room,probing him about all manner of questions on what a total gun ban would do. His answers were so  stupid we all had to leave the poor man alone.

I simply ask if he wanted to ban water because people drown in it
Also told him I could run over waaaay more than 17 in my truck before being stopped so why not ban motor vehicles?
Also ask if guns were banned should LEO's still have them and he said yes...I ask why no one else would have them  he had no answer
Dont get me wrong this event is tragic but that gun did NOT GO TO THAT SCHOOL and randomly start shooting kids......it was the idiot holding it.... that is what they dont understand....cocaine is illegal look how well that law works
The gov cant stop drugs or people from getting here across boarders why would one think guns couldnt do the same ? The criminals will ALWAYS have them no matter what that is why they are criminals they dont care what the law says.

u should ask him if he would ban the chemical Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO)  which kills 1000s of people each yr and is one of the main causes of child death 6 months to 2 yrs old.

[Jess from VA]

Vaquero, all those facts are relevant.

But the single biggest issue is that mental health commitments, whether criminally or civilly driven, were historically for indeterminate periods (unlike jail sentences).  You were committed so long as the institutions thought you should be.  And while many should have been kept, how many were kept because the institution received taxpayer (and/or private) money based on their head-counts?  And it was shown that the vast majority of those committed long term were not really being provided any ongoing treatment in the real medical sense, beyond being drugged into oblivion in perpetuity.  

These long term psychiatric institutions then became nothing more than prisons for mentally impaired people, with indeterminate sentences to confinement (whether insane, or simply disturbed).  So the Federal courts began holding that this was a violation of all mental patients so confined fundamental rights to due process of law.  Prison terms are determinate (they may have some flexibility built in, like a 2-10yr sentence, but there were always due process rules on the books, that had to be followed, and the prisoner can read them, and have some right to present evidence and argument in his behalf).  

The federal courts said, in the absence of actual ongoing medical treatment (beyond dope), these people had to all be let go, unless they could make a case (one by one) that this or that patient was an IMMEDIATE danger to self or others.  And these institutions lacked the resources to hire teams of lawyers, and start going through the legal system to keep tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of mental patients confined.  

So the upshot was that over a few years, the vast majority were released to become homeless wanderers and a burden to any community they habituated, or to commit other crimes to be imprisoned (where most of the worst ended up, I think). The non-violent non-criminal ones used to at least have a somewhat clean place to stay and three meals and a bed, but then they had nothing (except freedom to wander and become disease and bug inesfested and starve...but still free).  In the meantime, hundreds of the big longstanding long-term mental health facilities (private and public) went under and out of business, never to arise again.  

From a constitutional fundamental right proposition, this was absolutely the right decision.  But from the overall mental health of the country proposition, it was a terrible decision (for the rest of us to live with).   Showing to the satisfaction of a judge that someone is an IMMEDIATE risk to self or others is not easy, and it costs money.

Harken back to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.   Old McMurphy (Jack Nicholson), was not mentally impaired at all (beyond say personality disorder), but thought life in a mental hospital had to be better than in a prison, so he finagled his transfer.  He acted up and caused all kinds of problems, until he discovered that they could keep him for the rest of his natural life (and not just for the remainder of his criminal sentence).  Surprise.  And when he punched out Nurse Ratchet  (and boy did she have it coming) they lobotomized him and then kept him for the rest of his natural life.

Doc I know that girl was underage, but she was 13 going on 27, if you know what I mean.  

So national mental health is a serious ongoing problem resembling the choice between a rock and a hard place.  Statistically, there will always be so many defective units per 100,000.  Not only does the population continue to rise, so does the rate of defective units per 100,000.



Ken Kesey's book of the same name (Cuckoos Nest) was written in 1959 and published in 1962 in the midst of the civil rights movement and deep changes to the way psychology and psychiatry were being approached in America.  The 1960s began the controversial movement towards de-institutionalization of psych patients in general.  And was also critical of common practices in the looney bins of the day.  For instance, electro shock therapy, despite its apparent barbarity to the layman, often worked wonders for the right patients (long tern depressives) even though they really didn't understand why it worked, but it was likely used much more often as a severe punishment for the unruly who needed to be taught a lesson, but in the name of supposed medical treatment.



This freak, did not have much of a technical diagnosis beyond Asperger's syndrome (which often causes only small cognitive impairment).  His divorced parents had money and his mother by all reports did everything she could to take care of him and provide him a good home.  There came a time he could no longer attend public schools.  

His mother finally appears to have reached the end of her rope, and was again going to seek assistance in having him committed for long term treatment (but showing he was an immediate threat to himself or others was going to be very difficult as he didn't have a criminal history).  It's almost certain she began to talk to him about this, and it's almost certain this was the driving set of circumstances that caused Adam Lanza to decide to shoot 20 first graders, and himself.... rather than being committed to an institution (where he clearly belonged).  

Understanding how screwed up he was, he probably thought his being sent to one was a lock, whereas in truth, it was going to be nealy impossible to commit him, beyond a 21 day period of observation and reporting.  Whereupon, in the absence of any shooting, he most likely would have been released.

Of course, his mother, his first shooting victim, failed miserably in allowing him access to firearms.  

[Savago]

[Savago]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

So it's ok with you that 18 year olds can go to war and kill but not buy their own weapon to protect themselves here at home? How many kids die each year in car wrecks? Lets ban getting your drivers license until you're 21 also. This is not a gun issue no matter how bad you liberals want it to be.

Maybe there is something wrong with the government that sends the youth to die in foreign countries in wars that Americans can't even find in the map...

Plus that freak in Florida wasn't a veteran, right?

[phideux]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool, the assault moniker is the intent of the person holding or using that tool.
If I got a generic semi-auto 22 target rifle, took the stock off and added some plastic stuff to it to make it look scary to some liberal asshat, does that make it an assault rifle??? No. But if someone took it and shot several people with it and assaulted them with it, that makes it an assault rifle.

When I was growing up, there were guns around, but you know what was different?? After school what happened?? We went home, changed our clothes and Mom sent us outside to interact with our friends, after supper, same thing, you went outside, you interacted with your peers, you ran around, you did stuff.. You played games like cops and robbers, War, cowboys and Indians, where you used pretend guns to kill the bad guys. Nowadays, the vast majority of kids come home, lock themselves in their rooms alone and stare for hours at TV screens, Computer screens, video games, whatever. No more playing, running around, interacting.
Back then if you acted out in school the nuns would rap you across the knuckles with a ruler, the principle would paddle you, then when you got home Dad would spank you and you would be punished. We had ADD and ADHD when I was growing up, the nuns beat it out of you. Nowadays, you act up in class you see the counselor who sends you to the therapist who starts doping you up, here little snowflake, take your pills. We need to bring discipline back into the schools and homes, get your kids faces out of the screens their every waking moment, don't drug your kids, discipline them.

This is the generation where our kids eat Tide Pods and don't know which bathroom to use, Guns ain't the problem.

[Robert]

Savago you may not be able to make sense of your position after seeing this video. I find your views on many things seem to mirror the values of a country you came from rather than the values that a good percentage of the Americans have. While I do not endorse military actions I will say that without the US being involved in many places throughout the world it would be a drastically different place today.

What part of choice in life play in all of this, One decides to take lives, other decides to save lives. That is the moral question like why cannot people with good morals own guns? Why do we have to take away our freedoms from those that are good people to satisfy the sick ones? Why do we have the choice on abortions???? yet those very same people say take away the guns because we are killing people.

Reality Check: More Minnesotans Own Guns, Violent Crime Remains Low

https://youtu.be/qhI5fzpm7Rg

As for the military I think we need to honor a few students


Military Members Rally To Honor Peter Wang, JROTC Hero Killed During Florida School Shooting

https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2018/02/17/military-members-rally-honor-peter-wang-jrotc-hero-killed-florida-school-shooting/

Peter Wang is a hero, and members of our military are rallying online to honor him and support his family.

Wang, a 15-year-old freshman and cadet in the JROTC program at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, was killed during the shooting at his school last week.

Multiple witnesses describe Wang wearing his gray JROTC shirt and helping hold open the door for his fellow classmates, allowing them to escape before him, when he was shot and killed.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/17/student-florida-shooting-coach-gun/

Colton Haab, a 17-year-old student at Stoneman Douglas High School, was a hero in his own right during Wednesday’s shooting. Haab, a junior ROTC member, told Fox News that he shielded his classmates with bulletproof kevlar mats as the shooter swept the halls.

A ROTC student who survived the Parkland, FL shooting said the hero football coach who shielded students could have stopped the shooter if he had a firearm.

[The emperor has no clothes]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool

Yes, the AR-15 is just a tool. A tool designed and purposed for the efficient killing of people.

[Skinhead]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool

Yes, the AR-15 is just a tool. A tool designed and purposed for the efficient killing of people.

ALL guns are designed for killing, some do it more efficiently than others, But none of them can kill on their own.  All you bleeding hearts that say we don't need such an efficient weapon in the hands of civilians, take a look at what YOUR government agencies are packing when they come to visit.  Ruby Ridge. Waco, and the Bundy incident in NV.  They are packing full auto versions of the weapons they say are too dangerous for we subjects.  That is the essence of the intent of the second amendment, for citizens to be able to stand up to a tyrannical government.  You have the freedom of choice to buy a muzzle loader if the AR15 is too scary for you, I prefer to get the best tool I can afford and legally own for a job.

[phideux]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool

Yes, the AR-15 is just a tool. A tool designed and purposed for the efficient killing of people.

You can say the same for almost anything. The recent attack in China shows that Meat Cleavers are an efficient killing tool, so are knives, rocks, hammers, automobiles, baseball bats, etc.
I can take any one of my guns, load it up and leave it out in the middle of my living room. It will not hurt anyone until someone picks it up and uses it to hurt someone. We don't have a gun problem, we have a bad person problem.

[The emperor has no clothes]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool

Yes, the AR-15 is just a tool. A tool designed and purposed for the efficient killing of people.

You can say the same for almost anything. The recent attack in China shows that Meat Cleavers are an efficient killing tool, so are knives, rocks, hammers, automobiles, baseball bats, etc.
I can take any one of my guns, load it up and leave it out in the middle of my living room. It will not hurt anyone until someone picks it up and uses it to hurt someone. We don't have a gun problem, we have a bad person problem.

If you can’t see the differences in efficiencies of a meat cleaver and multiple 30 round magazines in an AR type of weapon, I give up.

[Skinhead]

If you can’t see the differences in efficiencies of a meat cleaver and multiple 30 round magazines in an AR type of weapon, I give up.

Thank God!  It's about time.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If you can’t see the differences in efficiencies of a meat cleaver and multiple 30 round magazines in an AR type of weapon, I give up.

Thank God!  It's about time.

oh, I'm not giving up on my head brother. There is still hope for you. 

[Skinhead]

If you can’t see the differences in efficiencies of a meat cleaver and multiple 30 round magazines in an AR type of weapon, I give up.

Thank God!  It's about time.

oh, I'm not giving up on my head brother. There is still hope for you. 

That's me, The Great White Hope.

[shavdog]

And tell me again why the avg joe(other than military) needs access to assault style weapons??...I don't get that....I served three yrs in the army including one yr in the 101st infantry carrying an m16 and machine gun and I can't come up with a reason why I would need that kind of weapon....because of the mental health issues in this country I believe theres more of a reason for a major change in our gun laws...I'm all about hunting and outdoors activities...I suppose this will be another brushover by the great politicans of our country....time for a real change....

[The emperor has no clothes]

And tell me again why the avg joe(other than military) needs access to assault style weapons??...I don't get that....I served three yrs in the army including one yr in the 101st infantry carrying an m16 and machine gun and I can't come up with a reason why I would need that kind of weapon....because of the mental health issues in this country I believe theres more of a reason for a major change in our gun laws...I'm all about hunting and outdoors activities...I suppose this will be another brushover by the great politicans of our country....time for a real change....

I have given up hope of these politicians doing ANYTHING. Maybe if the Congress switches hands in November. But even that is a long shot.

[Gavin_Sons]

And tell me again why the avg joe(other than military) needs access to assault style weapons??...I don't get that....I served three yrs in the army including one yr in the 101st infantry carrying an m16 and machine gun and I can't come up with a reason why I would need that kind of weapon....because of the mental health issues in this country I believe theres more of a reason for a major change in our gun laws...I'm all about hunting and outdoors activities...I suppose this will be another brushover by the great politicans of our country....time for a real change....

  if anyone should know the difference between a m16 machine gun and a civilian ar15 it should be you. Out of all the gun people I know, I only know ome with a m16 machine gun. It cost him ober 20k to get. Took 8 months to get after he paid for it. So, dont tell me how easy a machine gun is to get. Again, this is not a snuggling gun problem.   I hope all of you anti gun crazies sign up to come take them away from us. 

[phideux]

There is something wrong with the law if you are not old enough to buy a beer but buying an assault damn rifle is just fine...
 

There is no such thing as an assault rifle. That is just a term made up by the liberal press to apply to a gun that looks scary. I have a couple of AR-15s, along with other stuff. I have several hunting rifles that are much more powerful and more accurate than any AR-15. The rifle is just a tool

Yes, the AR-15 is just a tool. A tool designed and purposed for the efficient killing of people.

You can say the same for almost anything. The recent attack in China shows that Meat Cleavers are an efficient killing tool, so are knives, rocks, hammers, automobiles, baseball bats, etc.
I can take any one of my guns, load it up and leave it out in the middle of my living room. It will not hurt anyone until someone picks it up and uses it to hurt someone. We don't have a gun problem, we have a bad person problem.

If you can’t see the differences in efficiencies of a meat cleaver and multiple 30 round magazines in an AR type of weapon, I give up.

I do know the difference and yes the AR is a more efficient tool, but it is just that. Alone it is a benign entity. It is the intent of the person that uses the tool that makes it an assault weapon. I have an old Remington 742, it's older than me. I've used it for hunting once, it was handed down to me by my uncle. They make a 10, 20, and 30 round magazine for it if you want one. It has a heaver bullet with more velocity than an AR round, more kinetic energy, and much more range. It also will shoot as fast an an AR. It has a nice wood stock, a scope and is definitely a more efficient killing weapon than an AR. Should I not be allowed to have this either??? It doesn't look scary like an AR so it should be OK right???

[phideux]

This is OK.


But this isn't??


Same gun, bottom one has some scary Black assault stuff added to it.

Is it better if we take the scary Black stuff off the AR-15???

[Robert]

    Number of deaths: 2,626,418
    Death rate: 823.7 deaths per 100,000 population
    Life expectancy: 78.8 years
    Infant Mortality rate: 5.82 deaths per 1,000 live births

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2014, tables 1, 7, 10, 20[PDF – 4.4 MB]
CDC the Number of deaths for leading causes of death:

    Heart disease: 633,842
    Cancer: 595,930
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
    Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
    Diabetes: 79,535
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 57,062
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 49,959
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193

The drug overdose rate, for example, was almost 20 deaths per 100,000 last year, up from 16.3 in 2015.

The death rate for diabetes was about 25 per 100,000 people; cancer was 185 per l00,000, and heart disease about 196 deaths per 100,000 people.


In the U.S. every year, statistics show that about 11,000 gun homicides and 21,000 gun suicides occur.

But statistics also show that 1.2 million abortions occur in the U.S. every year. It’s not 12,000 abortions—it’s 1.2 million.

So yes, let’s ask: What if killing people by the use of firearms was as hard as killing babies by the use of abortions? That would result in only about 30,000 abortions every year. That would be 30,000 too many, but in a country of more than 300 million people, that would be a drastic reduction.

[The emperor has no clothes]

This is OK.


But this isn't??


Same gun, bottom one has some scary Black assault stuff added to it.

Is it better if we take the scary Black stuff off the AR-15???

I care nothing what a gun looks like. I do care about magazine size.

[MAD6Gun]

And tell me again why the avg joe(other than military) needs access to assault style weapons??...I don't get that....I served three yrs in the army including one yr in the 101st infantry carrying an m16 and machine gun and I can't come up with a reason why I would need that kind of weapon....because of the mental health issues in this country I believe theres more of a reason for a major change in our gun laws...I'm all about hunting and outdoors activities...I suppose this will be another brushover by the great politicans of our country....time for a real change....

 The M16 is at assault rifle. The AR15 is NOT. It is a sporting rifle.

 Tell me why the average "joe" needs a Corvette. Should only professional race car drivers be only allowed to own them? You don't need to go faster that 80 mph but this car and many like it can. Cars kill far more people a year then guns. See how stupid that sounds. Cars are not protected by the constitution guns are.

 You talk about hunting and outdoor activities. The AR can be used for hunting. Have you ever heard of three gun shoots? That is an outdoor activity. The AR15 is used primarily in this type of shoot because of it ability to carry more rounds. Action/three gun matches are tests of speed and accuracy. Reloads take time so the fewer you do the faster you can shoot the targets. So just BECAUSE you don't see a use for an AR15 a lot of us do. I don't play golf but I would never say you don't have the right to play if you want. So why can't I do what I enjoy just because you don't like the tool I use to do it?

 So what you are saying is because of the mental health problem in this country we have outlaw these guns? HUH. Do you know how stupid that sounds. Wouldn't it make more sense to get these wackos help (and take THEIR  guns) before they go nuts?

[Serk]

I care nothing what a gun looks like. I do care about magazine size.

Good luck with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY16r6EkUNY

Freedom will prevail, one way or another.

[MAD6Gun]

 So tell me meathead. If it's all about magazine capacity. Does that include the 25 round mags that fit the Ruger 1022? You do realize that there are a lot of gun that accept high cap mags not just the AR15?