Mobil 1

[Vman986]

   Bee
N using Mobil 1, 15-50 red cap auto oil in all my bikes for decades. (V-twins, multis, etc.) All brands performed great on it. (No clutch issues) Went to buy a couple jugs at Walmart, and noticed the red cap is now silver. To be sure there's been no formulation change, I called Mobil. First tech (who sounded Indian, could not answer. He transferred me to the "second tier" techs. They weren't sure and said they'd investigate and call me back. They never did, so I rung back today. Today's expert said that some retailers request different cap colors, (???) but he could not advise using auto oil in motorcycles. So, no real answer.
   Do any of OUR in-house experts have any info on M-1 changes to the 15-50? I personally see no obvious changes on the jug. And none of the friction modifiers warnings  in the bottom half of the spec circle. Appreciate any a call input. Mike in Ohio

[Joe333x]

   Bee
N using Mobil 1, 15-50 red cap auto oil in all my bikes for decades. (V-twins, multis, etc.) All brands performed great on it. (No clutch issues) Went to buy a couple jugs at Walmart, and noticed the red cap is now silver. To be sure there's been no formulation change, I called Mobil. First tech (who sounded Indian, could not answer. He transferred me to the "second tier" techs. They weren't sure and said they'd investigate and call me back. They never did, so I rung back today. Today's expert said that some retailers request different cap colors, (???) but he could not advise using auto oil in motorcycles. So, no real answer.
   Do any of OUR in-house experts have any info on M-1 changes to the 15-50? I personally see no obvious changes on the jug. And none of the friction modifiers warnings  in the bottom half of the spec circle. Appreciate any a call input. Mike in Ohio

I've been using Mobil 1 in cars and trucks for years and never seen anything but a silver cap. Maybe you are thinking about Mobil Super? Personally I use Rotella T6 in my bikes, its the only oil you're going to find at Walmart that has the JASO rating for wet clutches.

[ckahler]

I have been using Mobil 1 15w-50 in my V65 Magna for years with no problems. Note in the attached chart the high zinc content of 15w-50. The comments section of the chart states it is designed to protect valve tappets. Zinc is good for tappets and cams, but bad for catalic converters and O2 sensors. For years, oil manufactures have been reducing zinc to protect emission systems. Perhaps 15w-50 has been able to keep the zinc since it is intended for high performance racing motors.

I'm not able to attach a pdf file. Google Mobil 1 product guide sheet.

[Hook#3287]

Personally I use Rotella T6 in my bikes

Yup, and in all my diesels, yard equipment and my Caddy.

I don't use it in my DCT's cause I haven't done the research yet, so I use the Honda juice, but I'll bet it'll be just fine.

[98valk]

   Bee
N using Mobil 1, 15-50 red cap auto oil in all my bikes for decades. (V-twins, multis, etc.) All brands performed great on it. (No clutch issues) Went to buy a couple jugs at Walmart, and noticed the red cap is now silver. To be sure there's been no formulation change, I called Mobil. First tech (who sounded Indian, could not answer. He transferred me to the "second tier" techs. They weren't sure and said they'd investigate and call me back. They never did, so I rung back today. Today's expert said that some retailers request different cap colors, (???) but he could not advise using auto oil in motorcycles. So, no real answer.
   Do any of OUR in-house experts have any info on M-1 changes to the 15-50? I personally see no obvious changes on the jug. And none of the friction modifiers warnings  in the bottom half of the spec circle. Appreciate any a call input. Mike in Ohio

I've been using Mobil 1 in cars and trucks for years and never seen anything but a silver cap. Maybe you are thinking about Mobil Super? Personally I use Rotella T6 in my bikes, its the only oil you're going to find at Walmart that has the JASO rating for wet clutches.

http://www.lngpublishing.com/LNGmagazine/index.cfm
this months issue
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/e9f4b3fd#/e9f4b3fd/1

see article  Two-wheelers love oil too!

JASO spec'd motorcycle oil are basically the same specs as heavy-duty diesel oil standards.
JASO does not test oils, manufactures pay a fee to JASO and state their oil meets the specs.

the Latest Jaso spec for motorcycles greatly reduces zinc and phosphorus levels below 1000ppm, which is below what the Valkyrie and all GL1500 engines were designed to have.

   
New Diesel Oil spec CK-4 not good for motorcycles if also meets SN and SM.
« on: August 26, 2017, 05:59:50 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify Remove messageRemove
This new spec requires below 1000ppm of phosphorus and zinc if the oil also is to meet SN and SM gasoline engine specs. Levels this low will wipe out the cams and rocker arms. Ford has already come against this spec citing excessive wear in powerstroke engines.
http://fordauthority.com/2017/03/ford-launches-new-oil-spec-for-6-7l-power-stroke-diesel/
So far Motorcraft oils have a new Ford specific specification WSS-M2C171-F1 which has higher levels, and early testing shows rotella is maintaining the higher levels and is rated CK-4 but not SN and SM.
All Delos are below the 1000ppm level.
Present CJ-4 spec oils which are above 1000ppm are being phased out. So stock up.
So make sure to check your oil of choice in regards to this new spec.

This site does virgin oil analysis of oils and is starting to post the CK-4 oils.
http://pqiamerica.com/HDEO_Sample_Summary_Dec_2016.html

The diesel oils which will have low phos and lower zinc levels will also meet the auto specs SN, SM and SL.
If the new diesel oil does not it will still have the higher phos and zinc levels. 
So far Delvac and Delo will meet the auto specs also, so no good for motorcycles.

Rotella and Motorcraft will only meet the CK-4 spec and the Ford specification WSS-M2C171-F1 and maintain PPM over 1k for phos and zinc (I'm sure there are others), plus they will also have high levels of Boron to meet the spec, which is a great anti-wear additive.

[hubcapsc]

I think that if you aren't careful about what oil you use your
Valkyrie might only go 400,000 miles...



-Mike

[Joe333x]

  Bee
N using Mobil 1, 15-50 red cap auto oil in all my bikes for decades. (V-twins, multis, etc.) All brands performed great on it. (No clutch issues) Went to buy a couple jugs at Walmart, and noticed the red cap is now silver. To be sure there's been no formulation change, I called Mobil. First tech (who sounded Indian, could not answer. He transferred me to the "second tier" techs. They weren't sure and said they'd investigate and call me back. They never did, so I rung back today. Today's expert said that some retailers request different cap colors, (???) but he could not advise using auto oil in motorcycles. So, no real answer.
  Do any of OUR in-house experts have any info on M-1 changes to the 15-50? I personally see no obvious changes on the jug. And none of the friction modifiers warnings  in the bottom half of the spec circle. Appreciate any a call input. Mike in Ohio

I've been using Mobil 1 in cars and trucks for years and never seen anything but a silver cap. Maybe you are thinking about Mobil Super? Personally I use Rotella T6 in my bikes, its the only oil you're going to find at Walmart that has the JASO rating for wet clutches.

http://www.lngpublishing.com/LNGmagazine/index.cfm
this months issue
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/e9f4b3fd#/e9f4b3fd/1

see article  Two-wheelers love oil too!

JASO spec'd motorcycle oil are basically the same specs as heavy-duty diesel oil standards.
JASO does not test oils, manufactures pay a fee to JASO and state their oil meets the specs.

the Latest Jaso spec for motorcycles greatly reduces zinc and phosphorus levels below 1000ppm, which is below what the Valkyrie and all GL1500 engines were designed to have.

   
New Diesel Oil spec CK-4 not good for motorcycles if also meets SN and SM.
« on: August 26, 2017, 05:59:50 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify Remove messageRemove
This new spec requires below 1000ppm of phosphorus and zinc if the oil also is to meet SN and SM gasoline engine specs. Levels this low will wipe out the cams and rocker arms. Ford has already come against this spec citing excessive wear in powerstroke engines.
http://fordauthority.com/2017/03/ford-launches-new-oil-spec-for-6-7l-power-stroke-diesel/
So far Motorcraft oils have a new Ford specific specification WSS-M2C171-F1 which has higher levels, and early testing shows rotella is maintaining the higher levels and is rated CK-4 but not SN and SM.
All Delos are below the 1000ppm level.
Present CJ-4 spec oils which are above 1000ppm are being phased out. So stock up.
So make sure to check your oil of choice in regards to this new spec.

This site does virgin oil analysis of oils and is starting to post the CK-4 oils.
http://pqiamerica.com/HDEO_Sample_Summary_Dec_2016.html

The diesel oils which will have low phos and lower zinc levels will also meet the auto specs SN, SM and SL.
If the new diesel oil does not it will still have the higher phos and zinc levels.  
So far Delvac and Delo will meet the auto specs also, so no good for motorcycles.

Rotella and Motorcraft will only meet the CK-4 spec and the Ford specification WSS-M2C171-F1 and maintain PPM over 1k for phos and zinc (I'm sure there are others), plus they will also have high levels of Boron to meet the spec, which is a great anti-wear additive.

Great info thanks, glad Rotella is still good stuff, have it in both my bikes and truck right now.

[Led]

I still Have several bottles of the "red cap" around.    15/50.   I believe it was mainly aimed for Diesel use? 
Beats me.......I have not shopped for any, in ages!!
Maybe.....they just eliminated the red caps.....for cost savings, and inventory purposes??

[h13man]

My Valk didn't like the new formula T6. Used for for 11 yrs. with no issues. Mobil 1 10w-40 which reminds me its close to oil change time.

[F6Dave]

It's been many years since they sold Mobil 1 with colored caps. 15W-50 was red, 10W-30 was green, and I think 10W-40 was black. Maybe they stopped the practice because they make Mobil 1 in so many weights these days. There wouldn't be enough colors in a pride flag for all the varieties.

I downloaded Mobil 1 spec sheets for a few years. I still have the PDFs from 2016, 2018, and 2019, but can't find a current one. These sheets list the zinc and phosphorus levels for each grade. For some weights, the levels dropped over that 3 year period. For instance, 4 weights of high mileage M1 were reduced from 1000/1100 (ppm of phos/zinc) to 800/900. Most weights, including the 15W-50 auto and both MC oils did not change.

Regarding the issue of phosphorus damaging catalytic converters, I read some posts by an automotive engineer (GM I think) discussing tests performed back when the EPA was only proposing reductions in ZDDP levels. They found that in engines without serious oil consumption problems, so little contamination made it to the exhaust that there was no damage to the cats. However, the oil manufacturers had already developed formulas using more calcium and less ZDDP so there was little opposition to the rule change.

These days, when I switch oil or filter brands, I run an oil analysis to make sure there were no adverse effects. I switched to the Wal Mart Super Tech filters and found that they worked just as well as the Bosch I had been using. Now I'm trying Rotella T4 (conventional) 15W-40 in both Valkyries and will test them both at the next oil change. I had been running Mobil 1 15W-50 automotive oil.

[ckahler]

The 2022 data sheets can be down loaded now.

[98valk]

My Valk didn't like the new formula T6. Used for for 11 yrs. with no issues. Mobil 1 10w-40 which reminds me its close to oil change time.

How did the bike not like T6?

[h13man]

Shifting was not as crisp and could hear more transmission noise. At the time I had 42,000 on the bike thus higher mileage bikes it may not be an issue.

A fellow rider had ST1300 do the same thing.

[F6Dave]

The 2022 data sheets can be down loaded now.

I'll go online and get them. For comparison, here are screenshots from 2016 and 2019 showing the reduction in phos/zinc in their high mileage oils. The 2016 sheet also shows levels for the 15W-50.

[F6Dave]

The 2022 data sheets can be down loaded now.

That's interesting. The MC oils and 15W-50 didn't change, but for nearly all the automotive oils the levels dropped even more.

[98valk]

latest testing.
Delo has a high dose of Boron which is a very good anti-wear additive.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/boron-additives.57848/#post-729116

Diesel Oils
https://pqia.org/2023/03/14/test-results-on-delo-rotella-and-delvac/

[Pluggy]

Shifting was not as crisp and could hear more transmission noise. At the time I had 42,000 on the bike thus higher mileage bikes it may not be an issue.

The same results here.  Went back to motorcycle oil for smoother shifts, less gear noise.  Motorcycle oil in a motorcycle?  Now that's a novel idea.

[98valk]

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,96825.0.html
new spec requires below 1000ppm of phosphorus and zinc if the oil also is to meet SN and SM gasoline engine specs. Levels this low will wipe out the cams and rocker arms.

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,65911.0.html
JASO spec'd motorcycle oil are basically the same specs as heavy-duty diesel oil standards.
JASO does not test oils, manufactures pay a fee to JASO and state their oil meets the specs.

see article, another grade for the heavy-duty upgrade?

[mello dude]

.....

Motorcycle oil in a motorcycle?  Now that's a novel idea.

Um.. since there's no "like" button...
---------  ------- ----------

[hueco]

   Bee
N using Mobil 1, 15-50 red cap auto oil in all my bikes for decades. (V-twins, multis, etc.) All brands performed great on it. (No clutch issues) Went to buy a couple jugs at Walmart, and noticed the red cap is now silver. To be sure there's been no formulation change, I called Mobil. First tech (who sounded Indian, could not answer. He transferred me to the "second tier" techs. They weren't sure and said they'd investigate and call me back. They never did, so I rung back today. Today's expert said that some retailers request different cap colors, (???) but he could not advise using auto oil in motorcycles. So, no real answer.
   Do any of OUR in-house experts have any info on M-1 changes to the 15-50? I personally see no obvious changes on the jug. And none of the friction modifiers warnings  in the bottom half of the spec circle. Appreciate any a call input. Mike in Ohio

They ran out of red die?

[Gondul#408]

.....

Motorcycle oil in a motorcycle?  Now that's a novel idea.

Um.. since there's no "like" button...
---------  ------- ----------

Oil is oil... so long as it meets spec, it doesn't care what kind of vehicle it is inside.

[cmawest]

oil is oil ? "NOT" ! you need the zinc and phosphorus in any high performance engine. bi pass all the oil opinions and use rotella T-6 synthetic. yes its designed for diesels but thats cause diesels don't have cat. converters either, and due to high internal pressures qualify as high performance. i've used it since valkyries were a dirty thought in the honda engineers mind, "NEVER" have i ever experienced an oil related problem and i ride more miles in a year than most do in a lifetime with the CMA

[mello dude]

I dont think anybody on any motorcycle board has experienced an oil related problem...

Old joke...
Ask the old time motorcycle tech ---"what's the best oil?" -- his answer... "Clean"

--> Going back to my "no response" on oil threads.... md out... 

[h13man]

oil is oil ? "NOT" ! you need the zinc and phosphorus in any high performance engine. bi pass all the oil opinions and use rotella T-6 synthetic. yes its designed for diesels but thats cause diesels don't have cat. converters either, and due to high internal pressures qualify as high performance. i've used it since valkyries were a dirty thought in the honda engineers mind, "NEVER" have i ever experienced an oil related problem and i ride more miles in a year than most do in a lifetime with the CMA

Rotella T6 and all diesel oils have been changed due to EPA regulations to the point Ford got very obstinate about it use in their motors. Used T6 since 07' but the new formula, my bike didn't like. Changed out after 100 mi. Tried Valvoline dino, broke down in 3,000. Mobil 1 for 5,000 mi. not one issue. Congratulations on your mileage and having the desire and time to do so but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the rest of us.

[DragonRdr]

I was going to start a thread on what's the best gas stabilizer for winter storage, but after this thread don't want to get flamed. 

With that being said I have been using Mobil 1 Syn since 1995 and have had zero problems. Have thought about switching to Amsoil, but decided not to. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Happy Holidays all 

[98valk]

I was going to start a thread on what's the best gas stabilizer for winter storage, but after this thread don't want to get flamed. 

With that being said I have been using Mobil 1 Syn since 1995 and have had zero problems. Have thought about switching to Amsoil, but decided not to. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Happy Holidays all 

Sta-bil is best, as it emits fumes to coat exposed areas of tank.

Amsoil MC oil is good if a vehicle is going to be sitting 3-6 months or longer since they state it has more anti-rust/corrosion additives than other oils.

[Jess from VA]

I was going to start a thread on what's the best gas stabilizer for winter storage

Marine Grade Stabil, non ethanol gas, and an ounce or two of Seafoam. (is what I do)

And run it down through the carbs before sitting.

Petcock off, battery on a Battery Tender Jr (24 X 7 year round, when sitting).  My Yuasas last for many years with this system.  Trickle charger with brain to cycle on and off, when needed.  Pigtail to battery to frame, for easy plug-in.  When I roll into the shed, key off right, petcock off left, pigtail plugged in all from the seat before dismount.  Two interstates, same sytem.   

[DragonRdr]

Good advise all. I've been filling up the bikes with gas and using Stabil 360 and running it through the carbs before storage. I can't find ethanol free gas around here. I though about going to the local airport and buying some Avgas, which is 100 octane low lead with no ethanol. I didn't get around to it but I'm going to do it next year. I also put the bikes on Battery Tenders. As for Amsoil, if I get to Laconia next year I might get Amsoil Adam from YouTube to do an oil change just to try it out. 

[Jess from VA]

My bikes ran very noticeably quieter with Amzoil bike oil 10-40 than anything else I've ever used.

It comes out of the bottles more like fine syrup than watery oil. 

But it got so stupid expensive, I just stayed with other good synthetic.  Which is fine.

[98valk]

My bikes ran very noticeably quieter with Amzoil bike oil 10-40 than anything else I've ever used.

It comes out of the bottles more like fine syrup than watery oil.  

But it got so stupid expensive, I just stayed with other good synthetic.  Which is fine.

I was a dealer back in the '90s.  then their auto 10w40 and 20w50 was also their motorcycle oil. listed both on the bottle.  what I used.  Then they got the marketing idea to put the same oil into a bottle that said motorcycle and with a motorcycle picture. sales then took off, but of course 1 to 2 dollars more for the new bottle. so I still bought the car oil bottle and told others. for decades their car oil bottle still listed for both, only lately did they stop doing that.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I am currently an Amsoil dealer, but I tread lightly here as I am not a site sponsor. When I bought my Valk, as many new owners do, I noticed a fair amount of the Valkyrie "whine". Searching here, I found a post about oil (go figure ) that Jess from VA had stated just what he said above. Somewhat skeptical, I picked up a gallon when I was at a motorcycle shop buying something else. I did notice a reduction in the whine, but my biggest takeaway was how much improved the shifting was. To be fair, I don't know what was in it when I bought the bike, but it was pretty fresh, judging by the color of it as it came out. I was impressed enough to become an independent dealer.

I don't push Amsoil on anyone; oil is a polarizing subject on any vehicle forum. Use whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

[98valk]

I am currently an Amsoil dealer, but I tread lightly here as I am not a site sponsor. When I bought my Valk, as many new owners do, I noticed a fair amount of the Valkyrie "whine". Searching here, I found a post about oil (go figure ) that Jess from VA had stated just what he said above. Somewhat skeptical, I picked up a gallon when I was at a motorcycle shop buying something else. I did notice a reduction in the whine, but my biggest takeaway was how much improved the shifting was. To be fair, I don't know what was in it when I bought the bike, but it was pretty fresh, judging by the color of it as it came out. I was impressed enough to become an independent dealer.

I don't push Amsoil on anyone; oil is a polarizing subject on any vehicle forum. Use whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Best Amsoil I ever used in the Valkyrie was AMSOIL ACD 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil.  Butter smooth shifting, did analysis near 9k miles after two yrs and it was still good to use.  They kept raising the price whereas I just started using Rotella due to the cost. I think they discontinued it a few yrs ago.
I know before they made it a 10w30 rating it was just a 30W diesel oil and met some very tough diesel automatic transmission ratings, once it was 10w30 it lost the ratings. the below minus zero F changed by -10 F  which made it a 10w30.
https://www.syntheticoils.us/Products/acd.htm