Get Ready for $4 Gasoline!

[Jersey mike]

Could one solution be government intervention in California and opening up refineries that have been closed, I don't know but I like the sound of it.

Government run refineries. Seems like that was tried somewhere. Like Venezuela!

Lately there have been some articles about how California gets over 40% of its gasoline these days, since they've closed more refineries and aren't connected to many pipelines. It gets refined on the gulf coast, then shipped to the Bahamas. Next it's re-exported to California via the Panama Canal. This is because of a 106 year old law that requires cargo shipped between US ports to use US flagged vessels. Re-exporting works around that law.

https://nypost.com/2026/02/16/us-news/desperate-california-now-shipping-oil-from-the-bahamas-using-bizarre-loophole/

After 50 years, the US is finally building a new refinery. It will be optimized for the lighter sweet crude typically produced from the shale formations that now dominate US production. Groundbreaking for the new Texas facility is scheduled in just a few months.

Doesn't the President or the government have the authority during times of conflict or times of national emergency to apply force on private industry to due what it can to help the nation.

[old2soon]

     The loves here in Willow Springs is $4.95 a gal fer diesel and I believe $ 3.80 fer 87 octane. Somewhere in West Plains this A M 87 octane was $3.96 a gal. Shot right past the 2s fer the first numeral of the price!  And like most here just cuz the price per gal increases my MPG do NOT increase at all!  But like all the other times I'll adjust as best I Know how.  RIDE SAFE.

[Timbo1]

Let us not forget the past so easily.  The liberal media sure makes a big deal out of the recent spike in gas prices but were silent when gas was over $5 a gallon under the previous administration.  At least now there's a good reason for it and I appreciate our troops taking care of business for us.

U.S. Energy Administration

[Jersey mike]

The President has said he's going to release from our strategic oil reserves 172 million barrels.

This I'm not thrilled about. We are far from a crisis situation and our reserves are already are half and will now be lowered.

It was said when the Biden administration reduced the reserve level that it may have impacted and weakened the integrity of the underground storage wells, thus draw down can't make things better.

When oil tanked during Covid, Trump had the foresight to want to buy oil at the dirt cheap prices of around $35 a barrel but our super smart people in charge of the purse strings denied that idea. Now we're going to be at around just under 300 million barrels in our reserves when this draw down is finished.

Now the President has said he's will be replacing what is taken out plus an extra 20% with zero cost to we the people, but it won't be all at once, it will be spread out over time.

[Hook#3287]

The President has said he's going to release from our strategic oil reserves 172 million barrels.

This I'm not thrilled about. We are far from a crisis situation and our reserves are already are half and will now be lowered.

It was said when the Biden administration reduced the reserve level that it may have impacted and weakened the integrity of the underground storage wells, thus draw down can't make things better.

When oil tanked during Covid, Trump had the foresight to want to buy oil at the dirt cheap prices of around $35 a barrel but our super smart people in charge of the purse strings denied that idea. Now we're going to be at around just under 300 million barrels in our reserves when this draw down is finished.

Now the President has said he's will be replacing what is taken out plus an extra 20% with zero cost to we the people, but it won't be all at once, it will be spread out over time.

I agree, we are not in a crisis and this looks like a political move in my eyes.  Uncharacteristic for President Trump.

I thought I remembered first President Trump stocking up at $25. per barrel before Bumbling Biden open the spigot, depleting the reserves for political gain.

I hope Press Secretary Karoline  Leavitt gets the opportunity to address this, she'll straighten the idiots out.

[F6Dave]

Could one solution be government intervention in California and opening up refineries that have been closed, I don't know but I like the sound of it.

Government run refineries. Seems like that was tried somewhere. Like Venezuela!

Lately there have been some articles about how California gets over 40% of its gasoline these days, since they've closed more refineries and aren't connected to many pipelines. It gets refined on the gulf coast, then shipped to the Bahamas. Next it's re-exported to California via the Panama Canal. This is because of a 106 year old law that requires cargo shipped between US ports to use US flagged vessels. Re-exporting works around that law.

https://nypost.com/2026/02/16/us-news/desperate-california-now-shipping-oil-from-the-bahamas-using-bizarre-loophole/

After 50 years, the US is finally building a new refinery. It will be optimized for the lighter sweet crude typically produced from the shale formations that now dominate US production. Groundbreaking for the new Texas facility is scheduled in just a few months.

Doesn't the President or the government have the authority during times of conflict or times of national emergency to apply force on private industry to due what it can to help the nation.

Refinery closures aren't California's only self-inflicted problem. Their oil production has dropped from 760,000 barrels per day in 2000 to just 250,000 last year. No wonder they now import 70% of what they use!

Oppressive regulations contributed to this: when the cost to operate a well exceeds the revenue it eventually get shut in and plugged. But even worse is that the climate zealots running the state essentially stopped issuing drilling permits. Last year only 17 permits were issued compared to thousands just a few years ago.

Many people don't realize how much production drops as a well produces oil and gas, depleting the volumes and pressures in the underground reservoir. For conventional wells a production rate decline of 10 - 20% per year is typical, while shale wells often see decline rates of 30% or more. So a well with an initial rate of 1,000 BOPD often produces at half that rate after a few years. By suspending drilling permits California effectively killed their oil and gas industry.

But last year some California politicians realized that skyrocketing prices and shortages might have consequences at the ballot box, so they passed a law (SB 237) authorizing 2,000 drilling permits per year. Are they waking up to reality or just buying votes? Either way they must not be as concerned about global warming as they claimed.

[F6Dave]

The President has said he's going to release from our strategic oil reserves 172 million barrels.

This I'm not thrilled about. We are far from a crisis situation and our reserves are already are half and will now be lowered.

It was said when the Biden administration reduced the reserve level that it may have impacted and weakened the integrity of the underground storage wells, thus draw down can't make things better.

When oil tanked during Covid, Trump had the foresight to want to buy oil at the dirt cheap prices of around $35 a barrel but our super smart people in charge of the purse strings denied that idea. Now we're going to be at around just under 300 million barrels in our reserves when this draw down is finished.

Now the President has said he's will be replacing what is taken out plus an extra 20% with zero cost to we the people, but it won't be all at once, it will be spread out over time.

I don't like that either. Maybe the end of this war is not as close as he says in public. Gas prices are up, but adjusted for inflation they're not even close to the peaks back in 2008 and 2012. This is no crisis. Yet.

I also read that the SPR was damaged by the releases during the Biden years, but did not see any details of how it happened. I do know there's a limit of to how quickly it can be filled or drained. Maybe that was a factor.

[HayHauler]

The President has said he's going to release from our strategic oil reserves 172 million barrels.

This I'm not thrilled about. We are far from a crisis situation and our reserves are already are half and will now be lowered.

It was said when the Biden administration reduced the reserve level that it may have impacted and weakened the integrity of the underground storage wells, thus draw down can't make things better.

When oil tanked during Covid, Trump had the foresight to want to buy oil at the dirt cheap prices of around $35 a barrel but our super smart people in charge of the purse strings denied that idea. Now we're going to be at around just under 300 million barrels in our reserves when this draw down is finished.

Now the President has said he's will be replacing what is taken out plus an extra 20% with zero cost to we the people, but it won't be all at once, it will be spread out over time.

I don't like that either. Maybe the end of this war is not as close as he says in public. Gas prices are up, but adjusted for inflation they're not even close to the peaks back in 2008 and 2012. This is no crisis. Yet.

I also read that the SPR was damaged by the releases during the Biden years, but did not see any details of how it happened. I do know there's a limit of to how quickly it can be filled or drained. Maybe that was a factor.

Biden emptied the SPR to lower gas prices in an attempt to save face.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Jersey mike]

Could one solution be government intervention in California and opening up refineries that have been closed, I don't know but I like the sound of it.

Government run refineries. Seems like that was tried somewhere. Like Venezuela!

Lately there have been some articles about how California gets over 40% of its gasoline these days, since they've closed more refineries and aren't connected to many pipelines. It gets refined on the gulf coast, then shipped to the Bahamas. Next it's re-exported to California via the Panama Canal. This is because of a 106 year old law that requires cargo shipped between US ports to use US flagged vessels. Re-exporting works around that law.

https://nypost.com/2026/02/16/us-news/desperate-california-now-shipping-oil-from-the-bahamas-using-bizarre-loophole/

After 50 years, the US is finally building a new refinery. It will be optimized for the lighter sweet crude typically produced from the shale formations that now dominate US production. Groundbreaking for the new Texas facility is scheduled in just a few months.

Doesn't the President or the government have the authority during times of conflict or times of national emergency to apply force on private industry to due what it can to help the nation.

Refinery closures aren't California's only self-inflicted problem. Their oil production has dropped from 760,000 barrels per day in 2000 to just 250,000 last year. No wonder they now import 70% of what they use!

Oppressive regulations contributed to this: when the cost to operate a well exceeds the revenue it eventually get shut in and plugged. But even worse is that the climate zealots running the state essentially stopped issuing drilling permits. Last year only 17 permits were issued compared to thousands just a few years ago.

Many people don't realize how much production drops as a well produces oil and gas, depleting the volumes and pressures in the underground reservoir. For conventional wells a production rate decline of 10 - 20% per year is typical, while shale wells often see decline rates of 30% or more. So a well with an initial rate of 1,000 BOPD often produces at half that rate after a few years. By suspending drilling permits California effectively killed their oil and gas industry.

But last year some California politicians realized that skyrocketing prices and shortages might have consequences at the ballot box, so they passed a law (SB 237) authorizing 2,000 drilling permits per year. Are they waking up to reality or just buying votes? Either way they must not be as concerned about global warming as they claimed.

They can issue all the permits they want, just like the Biden administration said they did, but it's the ridiculous costs involved with regard to the environmental regulations that make pumping and handling the huge and costly expenses which in turn are a turn off for oil drillers.

California is losing 2 refineries. One in L.A. owned by Phillips66 and another owned by Valero in Beneica, CA.

https://lodi411.com/lodi-eye/the-impact-of-phillips-66-and-valero-refinery-closures-in-california

California seems to have forgotten the history of that state and just what really built that state...and it wasn't Hollywood or orange groves, avacodos or almonds.

If we are coming into a crisis situation, the Fed should be able to override any state regulations for the benefit of the people as well as any military needs...and there are a lot of military needs in California as well as Texas, Arizona, Washington and several other states.

[Jersey mike]

Could one solution be government intervention in California and opening up refineries that have been closed, I don't know but I like the sound of it.

Government run refineries. Seems like that was tried somewhere. Like Venezuela!

Lately there have been some articles about how California gets over 40% of its gasoline these days, since they've closed more refineries and aren't connected to many pipelines. It gets refined on the gulf coast, then shipped to the Bahamas. Next it's re-exported to California via the Panama Canal. This is because of a 106 year old law that requires cargo shipped between US ports to use US flagged vessels. Re-exporting works around that law.

https://nypost.com/2026/02/16/us-news/desperate-california-now-shipping-oil-from-the-bahamas-using-bizarre-loophole/

After 50 years, the US is finally building a new refinery. It will be optimized for the lighter sweet crude typically produced from the shale formations that now dominate US production. Groundbreaking for the new Texas facility is scheduled in just a few months.

Doesn't the President or the government have the authority during times of conflict or times of national emergency to apply force on private industry to due what it can to help the nation.

Refinery closures aren't California's only self-inflicted problem. Their oil production has dropped from 760,000 barrels per day in 2000 to just 250,000 last year. No wonder they now import 70% of what they use!

Oppressive regulations contributed to this: when the cost to operate a well exceeds the revenue it eventually get shut in and plugged. But even worse is that the climate zealots running the state essentially stopped issuing drilling permits. Last year only 17 permits were issued compared to thousands just a few years ago.

Many people don't realize how much production drops as a well produces oil and gas, depleting the volumes and pressures in the underground reservoir. For conventional wells a production rate decline of 10 - 20% per year is typical, while shale wells often see decline rates of 30% or more. So a well with an initial rate of 1,000 BOPD often produces at half that rate after a few years. By suspending drilling permits California effectively killed their oil and gas industry.

But last year some California politicians realized that skyrocketing prices and shortages might have consequences at the ballot box, so they passed a law (SB 237) authorizing 2,000 drilling permits per year. Are they waking up to reality or just buying votes? Either way they must not be as concerned about global warming as they claimed.

California is sitting on huge reserves of oil, it's not a lack of oil out there, it's the fact they've regulated themselves into this situation.

Just a quick search on their reserves show they have a total crude reserve of 83 billion barrels.

[F6Dave]

California is sitting on huge reserves of oil, it's not a lack of oil out there, it's the fact they've regulated themselves into this situation.

Just a quick search on their reserves show they have a total crude reserve of 83 billion barrels.

Absolutely! A few years after I started my career at Texaco they bought the Getty Oil Company. I remember a presentation showing the main reason for the acquisition: the Kern River oil field near Bakersfield. There was so much oil in that single field that it increased the company's domestic reserves by a staggering amount, something like 40% IIRC.

I visited the facility a few times and it was unlike anything I'd ever seen: over 9,000 wells on 16 or 17 square miles. The oil was so heavy (more than Venezuelan crude) that it was solid at room temperature. To get that out of the ground requires enhanced recovery techniques, like steam flooding, where steam is pumped down adjacent wells to soften the heavy oil.

The Kern River steam flood includes a cogeneration plant. Before injection the steam runs through turbines which add 300 megawatts of electricity to California's grid. After the water is separated from the produced oil it is purified cleaner than the upstream intake, then sent downstream and used for irrigation in the San Joaquin Valley. Employees referred to the area as an energy and food factory.

Few Californians realize how much better their lives are because of places like Kern County. Many who hate the oil industry would be amazed at how miserable life would become if the industry shut down. It reminds me of a bumper sticker I often saw growing up near a western Colorado coal mine. It said 'Let the Bastards Freeze in the Dark'.

[DIGGER]

This morning Love truck stop at hyway 290 and fm 2920 diesel $5.18

[ridingron]

That's another reason prices will be going up. Just about every product, at some point, rides in a truck.

[0leman]

 I was out and about yesterday, saw that our local gas price was $3.99.  Been that way for over a week.  Didn't check on Diesel price, but it has been 50 cents higher than regular gas for a while.

[Jersey mike]

That's another reason prices will be going up. Just about every product, at some point, rides in a truck.

I'll suffer a little at the pump for awhile if it means eradicating a regime who hates us and declare Death to America and Death to Israel.

I was a freshman in high school when the Iranian hostage crisis happened, I've applauded every time we hit back no matter the President, however THIS action has been 47 years in the making.

I think we went up about $0.30 per gal, I think we're around $3.50 or so around here.

[3fan4life]

Looks like the US bombed Kharg Island last night:


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8jxzlwvd8ro

[Jersey mike]

I can see how in terms of control, the USNavy or the President would not want anyone else around the Strait.

But, again, why is the US taking all responsibility?  We have supposed allies that have the capability to invest either physically or monetary.

According to what I've seen, the US does not need a open Strait of Hormuz.

Is it just to keep oil prices down globally?  To keep the detractors from ammunition?

Not reasons to put US service personnel or assets in jeopardy, IMHO.

It's amazing too me how 23 miles wide is considered tight

Another quick search on the shipping lanes of the strait; it seems like out of all 23 miles only 6 (or so) miles are utilized for shipping, at least for tankers and big freighters. 2 miles for inbound, 2 miles for outbound and a 2 mile buffer in between each lane.

Width of the Strait of Hormuz

The Strait of Hormuz varies in width:

Narrowest Point: Approximately 33 kilometers (21 miles)

Widest Point: Ranges from 35 to 60 miles

Shipping Channel Configuration

The shipping channels in the Strait of Hormuz are organized to ensure safe navigation for vessels. Here are the key features:

Traffic Separation Scheme

Inbound Lane: One lane designated for ships entering the strait

Outbound Lane: Another lane for vessels leaving the strait

Lane Width: Each lane is about 3 kilometers (approximately 2 nautical miles) wide

Buffer Zone: A 2-mile-wide median separates the two lanes to prevent collisions

Depth of the Strait

Depth Range: The water depth in the main shipping channels is between 60 to 100 meters (200 to 330 feet), allowing large oil tankers to pass safely.

This configuration helps manage the heavy flow of maritime traffic while maintaining safety in this critical global shipping route.

Width of the Buffer Zone in the Strait of Hormuz

Traffic Separation Scheme

The Strait of Hormuz employs a Traffic Separation Scheme (TSS) to manage ship traffic safely. This system includes:

Inbound Lane: Used by ships entering the strait.

Outbound Lane: Used by ships leaving the strait.

Buffer Zone: A two-mile-wide area separating the two lanes.

This buffer zone helps prevent collisions between vessels moving in opposite directions, ensuring safer navigation through this critical waterway.

[F6Dave]

I read a commentary by Dick Morris that said Trump might want to reset his objectives to eliminating Iran's ability to spread terrorism (including nuclear weapons), while giving up on regime change. He pointed out that fanaticism can defeat massive military arsenals. Just look at Afghanistan. Both the USSR and the US got stuck there for years and left with very little accomplished.

[Jersey mike]

I read a commentary by Dick Morris that said Trump might want to reset his objectives to eliminating Iran's ability to spread terrorism (including nuclear weapons), while giving up on regime change. He pointed out that fanaticism can defeat massive military arsenals. Just look at Afghanistan. Both the USSR and the US got stuck there for years and left with very little accomplished.

I've said before, any change should come at the hands of the people, and that goes for anywhere, whether in Iran, Afghanistan or even what's brewing in Cuba.

President Trump was recently asked about the people in Iran and if they should rise up (that's a paraphrase) and his response was that he understands why they're not, people are being executed for protesting, the regime pit out statements saying anyone supporting the attacks on Iran in any way will be executed. However he has also said that we are giving them the best opportunity to fight or create the changes they want so it will come down to the people and the sacrifice that come with fighting for freedom.

In other news regarding oil, although it's a couple days old, Chevron and Shell are trying to work with Venezuela on new drilling. So the door seems to be opening a little down there and let's hope it's good business for us here in this hemisphere and the States.

[F6Dave]

Here's some interesting data on oil flowing through the Straits of Hormuz. The big takeaway is that nearly 90% of the total flows to Asia, yet GLOBAL prices have increased by over 50%. That includes here in my neighborhood where I paid well over $4/gallon for gas yesterday.

Natural gas, however, is priced regionally. So while European and Asian LNG prices have nearly doubled, here in the US prices are unchanged.

SOURCE

Saudi Arabia	37.2%
Iraq	22.8%
United Arab Emirates	12.9%
Iran	10.6%
Kuwait	10.1%
Qatar	4.4%
Other	1.9%

DESTINATION

China	37.7%
India	.7%
Other Asia	13.9%
South Korea	12.0%
Japan	10.9%
Europe	3.8%
United States	2.5%
Other	4.5%

[LadyDraco]

My farm has  to  run on 100% gas..
Last  week  I  paid  $4.20 for  100%
Thank goodness  I  only  need ed 10 gals.
and  10 gals  (for  the  quad)  and  top off  big truck with crap from sam's C.. $3.59 for  cheap fuel.

I treat all fuels with Star Tron before I fill the jugs. It mixes  better  that way..

All of  that  should  hold  me  till June? Maybe. As  I did  have  other  jugs  of 100% filled  in storage

IMHO  other  that  the  BS  of  switching to the  summer  grade, there  is  always  a  hike  in price
before  it lvls  back off...
It's  all BS ...

[F6Dave]

I see that WTI crude oil is down nearly 10% this morning. Something must be happening. Hopefully it's something good.

[old2soon]

       The loves here in Willow Springs went down a nickel fer 87 octane BUT diesel is $5.11 a gal.  Kinda like when yer on a Long Ride on yer scooter when ya Need it ya NEED IT! Sometimes the price IS too danged High but what othewr options ya got??  RIDE SAFE.

[Jersey mike]

Unfortunately it's a global commodity so the price is open to market speculation and manipulation.

We will get through this.

We are about 28 days into this thing which, once again is 47 years in the making.

Only one true ally has stepped up to the plate while the rest of the pack salivates on the sidelines waiting and watching as the USA once again does the heavy lifting.

[F6Dave]

Unfortunately it's a global commodity so the price is open to market speculation and manipulation.

... and emotion. A single Trump post over the weekend dropped the WTI price $10.

I'd add that due to the massive size of the oil market (>100 MILLION Barrels per day) it's difficult to manipulate unless you're a very big player. Even the Saudis don't have the control they used to.

I noticed that while WTI has dropped below $90, some of the middle eastern crudes are selling above $150. I don't ever remember a spread that large.

But the natural gas price spread is much larger. While we're paying under $3 per million BTU, the price in Europe is $19 and $21 in Asia. The US will pay a price too - in food costs. A large percentage of the world's fertilizer relies on Persion Gulf natural gas. Even if the straits reopen, Iran heavily damaged Qatar's biggest nat gas facility, which could take years to restore. The effects of this war could linger for some time.

[Jersey mike]

Unfortunately it's a global commodity so the price is open to market speculation and manipulation.

... and emotion. A single Trump post over the weekend dropped the WTI price $10.

I'd add that due to the massive size of the oil market (>100 MILLION Barrels per day) it's difficult to manipulate unless you're a very big player. Even the Saudis don't have the control they used to.

I noticed that while WTI has dropped below $90, some of the middle eastern crudes are selling above $150. I don't ever remember a spread that large.

But the natural gas price spread is much larger. While we're paying under $3 per million BTU, the price in Europe is $19 and $21 in Asia. The US will pay a price too - in food costs. A large percentage of the world's fertilizer relies on Persion Gulf natural gas. Even if the straits reopen, Iran heavily damaged Qatar's biggest nat gas facility, which could take years to restore. The effects of this war could linger for some time.

Qutar is another nation that is not poor and I believe their initial time was five years.

I think when they get the ball rolling and find the right people and equipment that time line will drop. Will it drop down to immediate productivity, certainly not. I think we will get a better idea by the fall on how things are progressing.

[LTD]

Most I ever paid was $6.50 a gallon in  Aspen, Colorado on my way to Inzane in 2022.  I got the hell out of there fast no place for a poor boy.

[F6Dave]

Both of my cars require premium, and I'm paying nearly $5 for that. And over the weekend I paid over $100 to fill my F150. It's been years since I watched a pump pass the $100 mark.

At least we don't have shortages. I remember those in the 1970s. There were gas lines in my area and many stations closed early. I remember carrying a 5 gallon gas can in the trunk when taking trips through the Colorado mountains. Maybe that's what it feels like to take a long trip in an EV.

[ridingron]

If you towed a trailer with a generator on it, would it burn more electric power than the generator generated?   

Maybe a trailer with a solar panel?

[scooperhsd]

If you towed a trailer with a generator on it, would it burn more electric power than the generator generated?   

Maybe a trailer with a solar panel?

That depends on how big a generator you have.  But I think that EVs take a considerable amount of power to charge, or the less power, the longer it takes to fully charge. So, an EV may not be the ideal vehicle to take in an energy starved trip, IMO.

If I can hop from truck stop to truck stop, my diesels can be filled up (although I may not like the price). Gasoline powered vehicles have the same advantage. BUt doing the same with EVs maybe more stress inducing, especially towing a trailer.

This summer is Wife's family reunion. This might end up being a rather costly trip from KC to Perryville MD and back, depending on the cost of fuel. But our station wagon (6 speed manual) has been known to exceed 45 MPG on highway driving (reasonable speed).

[F6Dave]

If you towed a trailer with a generator on it, would it burn more electric power than the generator generated?   

Maybe a trailer with a solar panel?

That depends on how big a generator you have.  But I think that EVs take a considerable amount of power to charge, or the less power, the longer it takes to fully charge. So, an EV may not be the ideal vehicle to take in an energy starved trip, IMO.

If I can hop from truck stop to truck stop, my diesels can be filled up (although I may not like the price). Gasoline powered vehicles have the same advantage. BUt doing the same with EVs maybe more stress inducing, especially towing a trailer.

This summer is Wife's family reunion. This might end up being a rather costly trip from KC to Perryville MD and back, depending on the cost of fuel. But our station wagon (6 speed manual) has been known to exceed 45 MPG on highway driving (reasonable speed).

I was staying at a motel in rural Wyoming (about 99% of the state is rural) and noticed 4 Tesla Superchargers in the parking lot. What stood out was the massive cable, almost like a firehose. I looked closer and saw a fenced in area with huge, refrigerator sized transformers. That made me curious: how much electricity does a Supercharger draw? I took out my phone and got the answer.

Tesla Superchargers, also known as level 3 chargers, draw 300 amps at 480 volts. That's 144,000 watts! The math is simple: that's what it takes to charge a 100 KWh battery in less than an hour. To put that in perspective, most homes have 200 amp service panels, and couldn't possibly run a Supercharger. Home chargers typically run a 240 volt level 2 charger, which can charge an EV overnight.

How many people who want EVs to replace gas and diesel powered vehicles have any idea how much electricity that would require? Probably very few.

[scooperhsd]

If you towed a trailer with a generator on it, would it burn more electric power than the generator generated?   

Maybe a trailer with a solar panel?

That depends on how big a generator you have.  But I think that EVs take a considerable amount of power to charge, or the less power, the longer it takes to fully charge. So, an EV may not be the ideal vehicle to take in an energy starved trip, IMO.

If I can hop from truck stop to truck stop, my diesels can be filled up (although I may not like the price). Gasoline powered vehicles have the same advantage. BUt doing the same with EVs maybe more stress inducing, especially towing a trailer.

This summer is Wife's family reunion. This might end up being a rather costly trip from KC to Perryville MD and back, depending on the cost of fuel. But our station wagon (6 speed manual) has been known to exceed 45 MPG on highway driving (reasonable speed).

I was staying at a motel in rural Wyoming (about 99% of the state is rural) and noticed 4 Tesla Superchargers in the parking lot. What stood out was the massive cable, almost like a firehose. I looked closer and saw a fenced in area with huge, refrigerator sized transformers. That made me curious: how much electricity does a Supercharger draw? I took out my phone and got the answer.

Tesla Superchargers, also known as level 3 chargers, draw 300 amps at 480 volts. That's 144,000 watts! The math is simple: that's what it takes to charge a 100 KWh battery in less than an hour. To put that in perspective, most homes have 200 amp service panels, and couldn't possibly run a Supercharger. Home chargers typically run a 240 volt level 2 charger, which can charge an EV overnight.

How many people who want EVs to replace gas and diesel powered vehicles have any idea how much electricity that would require? Probably very few.

Get away from the "big cities" in Kansas and it gets pretty rural for most of the state. And the other thing about states west of the Mississippi - they tend to be large , rural , with petro stations  only around / in towns, and charger stations a long ways apart - i.e. don't go too far away from an interstate.

In contrast - you can drive through 13 or more states along the east coast in less than 24 hours. I drove from Boston to Jacksonville FL in that, with a couple naps (I had worked a 12 hour day right before I started) in that 24/25 hours.

[F6Dave]

If you towed a trailer with a generator on it, would it burn more electric power than the generator generated?   

Maybe a trailer with a solar panel?

That depends on how big a generator you have.  But I think that EVs take a considerable amount of power to charge, or the less power, the longer it takes to fully charge. So, an EV may not be the ideal vehicle to take in an energy starved trip, IMO.

If I can hop from truck stop to truck stop, my diesels can be filled up (although I may not like the price). Gasoline powered vehicles have the same advantage. BUt doing the same with EVs maybe more stress inducing, especially towing a trailer.

This summer is Wife's family reunion. This might end up being a rather costly trip from KC to Perryville MD and back, depending on the cost of fuel. But our station wagon (6 speed manual) has been known to exceed 45 MPG on highway driving (reasonable speed).

I was staying at a motel in rural Wyoming (about 99% of the state is rural) and noticed 4 Tesla Superchargers in the parking lot. What stood out was the massive cable, almost like a firehose. I looked closer and saw a fenced in area with huge, refrigerator sized transformers. That made me curious: how much electricity does a Supercharger draw? I took out my phone and got the answer.

Tesla Superchargers, also known as level 3 chargers, draw 300 amps at 480 volts. That's 144,000 watts! The math is simple: that's what it takes to charge a 100 KWh battery in less than an hour. To put that in perspective, most homes have 200 amp service panels, and couldn't possibly run a Supercharger. Home chargers typically run a 240 volt level 2 charger, which can charge an EV overnight.

How many people who want EVs to replace gas and diesel powered vehicles have any idea how much electricity that would require? Probably very few.

Get away from the "big cities" in Kansas and it gets pretty rural for most of the state. And the other thing about states west of the Mississippi - they tend to be large , rural , with petro stations  only around / in towns, and charger stations a long ways apart - i.e. don't go too far away from an interstate.

In contrast - you can drive through 13 or more states along the east coast in less than 24 hours. I drove from Boston to Jacksonville FL in that, with a couple naps (I had worked a 12 hour day right before I started) in that 24/25 hours.

I've travelled all over Western Kansas. I fully agree that once you get past KC, Topeka, and Wichita, the state is very rural. But Wyoming, being the least populated state, feels really wide open. Heck, their largest city, Cheyenne, only has 65,000 residents and the entire state is not much over 500,000.

I love travelling around the Western US, and that includes most of Kansas, Nebraska, and others in that region. The varied terrain and lack of traffic make riding so enjoyable. One of my most memorable rides in recent years was the 'Loneliest Road in America' or US-50 through Nevada. I easily rode 590 miles in a single day and gained a new appreciation for Nevada.

[0leman]

Some of those roads in WY are not lonely.  I live in a town on I=80 East and west you had to ride on the interstate.  Noth, you got enjoy Trucks.  south Was a back country road.  Not saying it was all bad.  In those days I had a CB750 I had saved frum the junkyard, Not a Valk but di get down the road.  Only real problem with riding North was the wind which tended to blow a steady 30 mph across the road.  You knew it was bad when the semi cabs were listed 20-25 degrees of center and thire driver were only doing 30 mph.

[Jersey mike]

Now I understand the state pushed zero emissions and electric cars and hybrids on people but I can't see how that could seriously impact the decline in gasoline demand. There can't be that many all electric vehicles on the road. Is California gasoline so different than what the rest of country uses that it can't be sent out of state?


" Gas prices surge as LA council confronts fallout from Phillips 66 refinery shutdown"

The massive Phillips 66 refinery, stretching across LA's Carson and Wilmington, once a major source of in-state fuel, shut down in late 2025, sending ripple effects straight to the pump.

When it announced the closure, Phillips 66 pointed to declining gasoline demand, rising costs, and the challenges of operating under California's strict environmental and fuel regulations.

"We understand this decision has an impact on our employees, contractors and the broader community," said Lashier.

The Los Angeles City Council moved unanimously Friday to respond, focusing on job losses and the uncertain future of the sprawling site.

https://nypost.com/2026/03/27/us-news/gas-prices-surge-as-la-council-confronts-fallout-from-phillips-66-refinery-shutdown/

[scooperhsd]

California gas is a special blend, designed to work with Calfornia gas vehicle emission equipment. California emission regulations have driven a couple of refiners to leave the state (and if you know what an investment a refinery is - they are walking away from some very large investments). I'm not sure if California can refine enough gas anymore (as well as some of their neighboring states that also use the same emission regulations / gas), hence the availaibilty is being squeezed and raising the prices.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

I'd like to see some posts from Alien and other California riders on the whole situation.

[Jersey mike]

California gas is a special blend, designed to work with Calfornia gas vehicle emission equipment. California emission regulations have driven a couple of refiners to leave the state (and if you know what an investment a refinery is - they are walking away from some very large investments). I'm not sure if California can refine enough gas anymore (as well as some of their neighboring states that also use the same emission regulations / gas), hence the availaibilty is being squeezed and raising the prices.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

I'd like to see some posts from Alien and other California riders on the whole situation.

So here's a question which can or can't be answered, can't Phillips 66 make a gasoline that can be used outside California? Or transition over to more jet and aircraft fuel for military and commercial purposes.

I guess they (Phillips) knows their market but this is a huge gut punch for everyone involved and California literally messed this whole thing up.

[F6Dave]

There are many factors at play in California. While 49 states follow the EPA air quality standards, California has its own, more stringent standards. This requires a special blend of gasoline, CARBOB, with different oxygenation requirements and lower vapor pressure.

There are no gasoline pipelines serving California. Their boutique blend of fuel has to be refined in state or imported. Gasoline from gulf coast refineries must get shipped through the Panama canal, adding even more expense.

Another issue is Arizona. It has no refineries and gets much of its gasoline from California. AZ's high gas prices reflect this.

The refinery shutdowns have little to do with marketing factors. California's government hates the oil industry, and has passed countless regulations to make their operations unprofitable. The zealots running the state believed the fantasy that wind and solar would be running everything by now.

There's more than environmental regulations. The same anti-business regs driving companies like Tesla, Oracle, Schwab, and HP out of California are a factor in the refinery closures.

[old2soon]

There are many factors at play in California. While 49 states follow the EPA air quality standards, California has its own, more stringent standards. This requires a special blend of gasoline, CARBOB, with different oxygenation requirements and lower vapor pressure.

There are no gasoline pipelines serving California. Their boutique blend of fuel has to be refined in state or imported. Gasoline from gulf coast refineries must get shipped through the Panama canal, adding even more expense.

Another issue is Arizona. It has no refineries and gets much of its gasoline from California. AZ's high gas prices reflect this.

The refinery shutdowns have little to do with marketing factors. California's government hates the oil industry, and has passed countless regulations to make their operations unprofitable. The zealots running the state believed the fantasy that wind and solar would be running everything by now.

There's more than environmental regulations. The same anti-business regs driving companies like Tesla, Oracle, Schwab, and HP out of California are a factor in the refinery closures.

     BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT aren't "they" runnin off a good portion of their Former tax base?? Oh wait I KNOW tax the crappola out of the citizens that Elect to exist with all that there foolishness! Thinkin from here on out leave our Military bases in Ca. but no more fed money fer nuttin in Ca.! And I shudder to think How CLOSE I came to stayin out there after I seperated from The Navy. RIDE SAFE.

[98valk]

California gas is a special blend, designed to work with Calfornia gas vehicle emission equipment. California emission regulations have driven a couple of refiners to leave the state (and if you know what an investment a refinery is - they are walking away from some very large investments). I'm not sure if California can refine enough gas anymore (as well as some of their neighboring states that also use the same emission regulations / gas), hence the availaibilty is being squeezed and raising the prices.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

I'd like to see some posts from Alien and other California riders on the whole situation.

there are many states that have different fuel formulations know as "boutique fuels," to meet local air quality needs.
california is still using the lie about SMOG which a natural advent in parts of california. the Native Americas always referred to the LA valley as the Valley of Smoke. same reason on east coast we have the Smoking Mountains, smog is natural. then it blows east and some states use that to inflect emission crap laws on people.