Decel pop and the unlikely culprit

Mr Steve · Wed 20, Jul 2011, 23:01:14

I have been chasing a deceleration pop for a long time. I first replaced my stock o-rings with redeye's o-rings. Stockers were very bad. Still popped. I tightened all three points on every carb boot. Still popped. I replaced all vacuum lines and vacuum caps. Still popped. I replaced all exhaust gaskets and also exhaust. Still popped. I desmogged, reseated the air box (one intake wasn't seated properly from get go...thought I nailed it). Still popped when all seated correctly. I replaced all my pilots (was just going to do o-rings, but some pilots were rounding so did all the pieces). Still popped. The only way I could get it to stop popping was to adjust the pilots almost 4 turns out, very very rich. Not a solution.

Well, I just replaced the new redeye o-rings with the generic Advanced Auto Parts #64628.1 o-rings. Popping gone. The Redeye o-rings were substantially thinner than the generics. I've bought all kinds of stuff from redeye, great resource and I am not bashing him. I never suspected that it would be those o-rings. They looked fine. Not flat. Not damaged. I did see blow-by gas when I took off the intakes on all of them, but assumed it was from taking off the intakes. It wasn't until after I finished all else that my mind returned to that blow-by and I decided on the stab at replacing the Redeye rings with generic o-rings. All fixed now and popping gone.

What a chase that was, my first fix caused continued popping that I chased with all those other fixes. Arg.

rodeo1 · Wed 20, Jul 2011, 23:33:55

i smeared a tiny bit of high temp silicone on them and tightened them to specs. then let it sit for 24 hrs. stopped my popping too. my winter project this year will be to see what happens when you install a goldwing intake and carbs on a valk. wings are no slouch in the power arena, and get a lot better mileage. be interesting,, huh ?

Mr Steve · Thu 21, Jul 2011, 00:47:08

I wouldn't use high temp rtv in my intakes, but that is just me. The right o-rings work fine and are only .99 ea at Advanced Auto with a 1 year replacement warranty (whatever that is good for).

The wing carbs and intakes on a valk would be an interesting project, I imagine a fun bit of fabrication will be required.

Sigrún · Thu 21, Jul 2011, 05:52:08

Quote from: Mr Steve on Thu 21, Jul 2011, 00:47:08
The wing carbs and intakes on a valk would be an interesting project, I imagine a fun bit of fabrication will be required.

I don't doubt it could be done..... but....why?? ???

Tropic traveler · Thu 21, Jul 2011, 20:43:19

Thanks for the part # Mr. Steve!
Bought 6 today, gonna change the seals out on the '99. While I had the bike apart I wrapped the baffles with fiberglass packing & now the decel popping sounds God-awful. I noticed a small stain in a couple of spots around the intakes so I'll put the new o-rings to use.

WDAN · Thu 21, Jul 2011, 21:29:05

Quote from: Mr Steve on Wed 20, Jul 2011, 23:01:14

Well, I just replaced the new redeye o-rings with the generic Advanced Auto Parts #64628.1 o-rings. Popping gone. The Redeye o-rings were substantially thinner than the generics. I've bought all kinds of stuff from redeye, great resource and I am not bashing him. I never suspected that it would be those o-rings. They looked fine. Not flat. Not damaged. I did see blow-by gas when I took off the intakes on all of them, but assumed it was from taking off the intakes. It wasn't until after I finished all else that my mind returned to that blow-by and I decided on the stab at replacing the Redeye rings with generic o-rings. All fixed now and popping gone.

Where are these o-rings? Just may be a fix for me.

WDAN

Mr Steve · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 00:34:59

Quote from: WDAN on Thu 21, Jul 2011, 21:29:05
Quote from: Mr Steve on Wed 20, Jul 2011, 23:01:14

Well, I just replaced the new redeye o-rings with the generic Advanced Auto Parts #64628.1 o-rings. Popping gone. The Redeye o-rings were substantially thinner than the generics. I've bought all kinds of stuff from redeye, great resource and I am not bashing him. I never suspected that it would be those o-rings. They looked fine. Not flat. Not damaged. I did see blow-by gas when I took off the intakes on all of them, but assumed it was from taking off the intakes. It wasn't until after I finished all else that my mind returned to that blow-by and I decided on the stab at replacing the Redeye rings with generic o-rings. All fixed now and popping gone.

Where are these o-rings? Just may be a fix for me.

WDAN

The o-rings are located under each of the intake tubes between the tube and the head. Pull the tube and you can't miss them (one screw at top and two 8 mm bolts on bottom, or one 8mm and one 4mm allen if you have the valence covers), o-rings on bottom of intakes. IMHO, next to loose carb boot clamps (tighten that screw and the two others) the o-rings are the most common cause of deceleration popping. My problem was I replaced them first with faulty rings and so did not look back at them again and tried everything else. Could have saved myself a bunch of cash had I looked back at them sooner, oh well, lots of new stuff anyway, and I did want to eventually desmog.

Mr Steve · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 00:42:40

Quote from: Tropic traveler on Thu 21, Jul 2011, 20:43:19
Thanks for the part # Mr. Steve!

Don't thank me, they came from the generic parts list:

http://www.jkozloski.com/generic_parts.htm

Very useful.

Tundra · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 05:42:29

Been there, brings back memories. When I first bought my Valk it popped like crazy. I didn't know ANYTHING about a Valk then.
I took me a year chasing leaks (which were all contributors in my case) I did everything you mentioned and learned my bike a little better.
It was frusterating for me

Glad you got her taken care of

Patrick · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 08:51:01

Its been quite a awhile,but, its seems that most like either #122 or #123 o-rings.. I didn't they were fat[thick 3/32"] enough.. I'd have to look to be sure ,but, I prefer either #217 [1/8"] or #319[3/16"].. I think I used the 1/8" diameter rings because they have more 'squish' factor over the 100 series rings..

valkyriemc · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 10:48:30

I replaced my intake O rings due to leaks on the heads. My results with autozone O rings for this application were not good. I haven't had any issues since Redeye replacements were installed. Check out this link;
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,26466.msg239935/topicseen.html#msg239935

Mr Steve · Fri 22, Jul 2011, 12:38:44

Quote from: valkyriemc on Fri 22, Jul 2011, 10:48:30
I replaced my intake O rings due to leaks on the heads. My results with autozone O rings for this application were not good. I haven't had any issues since Redeye replacements were installed. Check out this link;
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,26466.msg239935/topicseen.html#msg239935

It was Redeye's o-rings that gave me the problem (they barely showed above my grooves and were very squishy, so they could be squished fully into the grooves, the generics are much harder and thicker), maybe there is something slightly different about my '97 or maybe I got a different batch than you. He seems to change things up quite frequently. Hope those Advanced Auto Parts o-rings off the generic parts list hold up, guess we'll see.

Scott from FL, now in Maine · Sat 23, Jul 2011, 18:38:32

I to am hunting the popping noise on decel and I want to try the o-rings from Autozone. But much to my dismay they say there are no parts listed under that part number!! Eddie, you say you just bought 6. Is that the part number you used?? Had planned to get them tomorrow, but will be waiting for some replies here

Tropic traveler · Sat 23, Jul 2011, 21:28:43

Quote from: Scott from FL, now in Maine on Sat 23, Jul 2011, 18:38:32
I to am hunting the popping noise on decel and I want to try the o-rings from Autozone. But much to my dismay they say there are no parts listed under that part number!! Eddie, you say you just bought 6. Is that the part number you used?? Had planned to get them tomorrow, but will be waiting for some replies here

Scott, it's Advance Auto Parts not AutoZone. The part # Mr. Steve gave does look correct, haven't put them in yet so we'll see then.

BTW.... you better start riding & put off any work until later! You know your 4 week riding season is nearly 1/2 over!!!

Scott from FL, now in Maine · Sun 24, Jul 2011, 08:08:07

Oops! Well it turns out that Autozone has them too. Went by the measurements to find them.

As for the riding season I have been riding a lot!!

You would actually love the riding here right now! High temps of the day 97 with a healthy dose of Florida humidity!! The locals are dieing LOL LOL

Tropic traveler · Sun 24, Jul 2011, 17:26:47

97 and high humidity!!!!!!!!
PERFECT riding weather!!

That's what it's been here for the last 2 months & as you know for the next 2 or 3 months too.
What a bunch of weenies the locals must be!

Scott from FL, now in Maine · Wed 27, Jul 2011, 19:23:24

Thank You Mr Steve!! That popping noise on decel from #6 is finally gone! Been trying to figure it out for almost a year. The new O-rings fixed it right up

Eddie the folks up here are used to being frozen most of the year

This weather is killing them. Judy and I however have been riding a lot and this weekend we are going up to Bar Harbor for the day and then to her camp on the lake (actually a rustic home with just the basics, no power and out house included LOL)

PhredValk · Thu 28, Jul 2011, 00:48:52

I ordered the 6 O-rings from Carolina Bike and Trike when I ordered 5 sets of rear drive O-rings. Cheap, delivered quickly and work perfectly.
Fred.

DarkMeister · Thu 28, Jul 2011, 06:47:31

Just wondering - does Honda sell OEM rings? Are aftermarket ones just cheaper, or better, or the only ones available? Or is it a discontinued item?

Either way, next project - as mine has been popping up a storm.

RP#62 · Thu 28, Jul 2011, 10:30:59

The aftermarket ones are just as good, if not better and much cheaper. For what you pay for a single OEM o-ring, you can get a set of aftermarket o-rings.
-RP

Timbo · Fri 29, Jul 2011, 08:18:55

This problem started on my bike about 2 weeks ago. Is there any harm that can be done if you ride it in that condition? I prefer to wait and work with someone who has a little more experience mechanically than I. But it could be several weeks before I can make arrangements with my local friends. So do I need to NOT ride until we address the popping?

R J · Fri 29, Jul 2011, 09:25:58

Ride it, it is just a little after the thought type thing popping. Unburnt gas that has exited the cylinder and getting into the hot muffler which ignites it.

Timbo · Fri 29, Jul 2011, 09:31:09

Quote from: R J on Fri 29, Jul 2011, 09:25:58
Ride it, it is just a little after the thought type thing popping. Unburnt gas that has exited the cylinder and getting into the hot muffler which ignites it.

Thank you RJ

Mr Steve · Sat 30, Jul 2011, 00:52:13

The gas exiting the cylinder unburnt in these engines is usually the result of a lean condition. A bad lean condition can cause some damage. You are not likely to be so lean you'll burn a hole in your piston head, but it is conceivable that you could damage a valve seal or even cause your pipes to gold or blue if you are really lean. How bad is the popping that just started 2 weeks ago?

aslondon · Sat 30, Jul 2011, 10:49:36

Thanks for the Advance Auto link. When I went there online, i noticed the price was .99 qty-4 and when i went to the specifications tab on the page, it showed pkg contents 4 so i printed the page and took it to the local store who initially argued I was wrong but quickly gave in when I gave them written proof of their website pricing. They sold me 8 for $2.06

WDAN · Sun 31, Jul 2011, 08:08:57

Two weeks ago, I ordered O-rings from Advance by phone. Told the employee I needed 6.
He told me they came in packs of 4 (I think). I told him whatever; as long as I get 6.
When my envelope arrived, there were two packs each containing 1 o-ring.
I called them back and salesperson looked into it and found there was an error as to quantity in the packs on their website. It showed four.
She sent me 6 more overnight at no charge. They were also in packs of one.

aslondon · Sun 31, Jul 2011, 12:55:34

It pays to read and be edumacated!

rodeo1 · Tue 02, Aug 2011, 08:30:22

i been thinking as i read this thread. the valk and the gold wing are basically the same motor. the valk seems to have this popping problem, both this one and my last one did it, as does my brothers valk. so it seems to be common to the valk. the wing on the other hand NEVER pops, not one of the 4 i have owned in the past EVER popped. both motors share the same type o-rings, maybe we need to try putting wing o-rings in ????

question? do those of you who have canned the pair valve and vaccum lines still pop ?

aslondon · Tue 02, Aug 2011, 09:11:14

While I bought the extra o-rings to keep on hand, I have never had popping problems on any of the 3 Valks I have owned. This last one, a very early 97, has Jardine exhausts and while pleasantly melodious (read LOUD) they never pop. I have replaced the o-rings one time several years ago but it was more of a PM issue than a problem. The bike is 14 years old and I was getting a little seepage from around 1 or 2 intakes. I am not sure that the Valk inherently pops but, these bikes are getting a little older at this point and we are continually fussing over them and the fuel isn't what it once was etc, etc (sound like some other brand). Having been a GWRRA Chapter Director I see a difference between the wing owners and Valk owners in terms of them getting their hands into the guts of the machine. I my humble experience, most wings are mechanically "unfussed with" while the Valks by nature appeal to the hotrodder and are not encased in plastic. Please no flames, just an observation

sugerbear · Tue 02, Aug 2011, 09:24:52

Quote from: aslondon on Tue 02, Aug 2011, 09:11:14
While I bought the extra o-rings to keep on hand, I have never had popping problems on any of the 3 Valks I have owned. This last one, a very early 97, has Jardine exhausts and while pleasantly melodious (read LOUD) they never pop. I have replaced the o-rings one time several years ago but it was more of a PM issue than a problem. The bike is 14 years old and I was getting a little seepage from around 1 or 2 intakes. I am not sure that the Valk inherently pops but, these bikes are getting a little older at this point and we are continually fussing over them and the fuel isn't what it once was etc, etc (sound like some other brand). Having been a GWRRA Chapter Director I see a difference between the wing owners and Valk owners in terms of them getting their hands into the guts of the machine. I my humble experience, most wings are mechanically "unfussed with" while the Valks by nature appeal to the hotrodder and are not encased in plastic. Please no flames, just an observation

sugerbear · Wed 03, Aug 2011, 17:37:51

Quote from: Scott from FL, now in Maine on Sun 24, Jul 2011, 08:08:07
Oops! Well it turns out that Autozone has them too. Went by the measurements to find them.

As for the riding season I have been riding a lot!! You would actually love the riding here right now! High temps of the day 97 with a healthy dose of Florida humidity!! The locals are dieing LOL LOL

lets see if your still laughing in feb

DarkMeister · Thu 04, Aug 2011, 06:38:06

Do these tubes come off alone, or does the intake/carbs have to be removed first?

Ricky-D · Thu 04, Aug 2011, 11:00:00

Yep!

The intake risers are easily removed by loosening the clamp holding the rubber hose from the carburetor and removing the two bolts at the connection at the intake on the cylinder head.

The biggest problem can be dropping something down into the intake which will open and available at the time.

***

zimmerleemark · Thu 04, Aug 2011, 23:44:45

this week mine was popping very badly on decel. bought some highest octane gas and before i had to fill up again, no popping whatsoever. runs great again. was this a fluke? anyway it worked for me. then i put cheap gas again. if it starts popping again will try higher octane again

mark

bigguy · Fri 05, Aug 2011, 16:56:32

Mark:
Just thinking out loud here. Higher octane increases the combustion temperature. I suppose it's possible that your pipes might not be hot enough to light off any unburned high octane, but be hot enough to ignite regular.
Does anybody know what the actual combustion temperatures are?

Ricky-D · Sat 06, Aug 2011, 10:54:36

Quote from: zimmerleemark on Thu 04, Aug 2011, 23:44:45
this week mine was popping very badly on decel. bought some highest octane gas and before i had to fill up again, no popping whatsoever. runs great again. was this a fluke? anyway it worked for me. then i put cheap gas again. if it starts popping again will try higher octane again mark

Using non-ethanol gas seems to have the same effect.

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wizard -vrccds#125 · Sat 06, Aug 2011, 17:55:15

The higher the octane ratting the higher the flash point !

bogator · Sun 07, Aug 2011, 09:00:29

OK, I'm gonna tell you what I do.--------------I keep the rite grip turned a little bit and no popping when in decelllllllll mode, try it and you mite like it, works for me .

chip · Sun 07, Aug 2011, 09:23:26

Had some light staining around the base of my tubes, knowing this was caused by leaking O-Rings I got a set of the highly recomended Red Eye O-Rings installed. Now a few weeks later a most of them are leaking again. Maybe they have a quality issue they are not aware of.

Ricky-D · Sun 07, Aug 2011, 11:19:55

Quote from: wizard -vrccds#125 on Sat 06, Aug 2011, 17:55:15
The higher the octane ratting the higher the flash point !

The flashpoint of gasoline is in a range of minus 42 degrees to minus 47degrees Fahrenheit.

I don't think this is the point you are trying to make!

The burn rate of gasoline is affected by octane rating and the additives added to the gasoline.

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News:

Decel pop and the unlikely culprit

rodeo1

rodeo1