Winning? Plant closings announced.

[Jeff K]

The company I used to work for IBC, now Hostess Brands, has been in and out of bankruptcy for the last 8 years. I don't think they have made a profit in 10 years or more. They have been trying to sell off the plants but due to buyers not wanting the union contracts that come with the plants, it hasn't gone well. This time they tried to negotiate the contracts down to make them either profitable or more attractive to sell. The union would have nothing with it. The bankruptcy Judge approved the cuts to ALL employees including management, but he union said hell no. So as of Saturday they went on strike. Yes that's right they went on strike to get more out of a company that had less than nothing. Well today the company made good on their promise, they announced the permanent closing of 3 plants, Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati. 650 people are now unemployed.
My Son works at the Jacksonville plant. I sure hope they don't close it too. He said most of the employees didn't picket, they called in sick to test the waters, but hey only have a few days of that before they have to either work or strike.

I wonder... when you are picketing outside a plant, and they close up for good, do you still get strike pay? Do you still walk a picket line in front of a empty plant?

I wonder how many of them wish they would have made a different decision?  I wonder how many of the "sick" workers will head back to work tonight hoping they don't become the next round of closings?



Do you blame Bush? 

[czuch]

FOOLS!!!
Thats like here, union says vote for the guy thats gonna cut the Military and defense.
I'm comin over for dinner post layoff. Ya better have enough and it better be good.
At least vote for your JOB!!
I went all Sam Kinneson on one of the tool stewards before the election. All I got was a frantic wife calin me at work saying three guys in a van were parked across the street the next day. We live rural so this was something. 50 mile round trip from work. She took pictures of em and I recognized who they were. On approach they got all rubbery and said they were sorry and didnt mean anything.
I let them know they were right, and didnt mean anything.
Dont think for a minute management dosent know who was "sick" and who wants to work.
In this economy, you'll find that water very cold and extremely deep.
Hmmmm, might be a little passionate there.

[Jeff K]

I quit them 5 years ago because the top management there was out of control. They were destroying the company in the name of progress. I didn't want to be the captain of that ship when it went under. It took longer than I thought but it is going to happen. For my son's sake I was hoping for a sale of the plant he is in and that they would keep it open.

[BF]

I'm pro union, but voting yourself out of a job is just plain dumb. 

Bet most of them voted Obama too. 

[Fritz The Cat]

America has gone insane. 

[BF]

America has gone insane. 

At least half of it has. 

[GreenLantern57]

Now the other half want out!

[DIGGER]

FOOLS!!!
Thats like here, union says vote for the guy thats gonna cut the Military and defense.
I'm comin over for dinner post layoff. Ya better have enough and it better be good.
At least vote for your JOB!!
I went all Sam Kinneson on one of the tool stewards before the election. All I got was a frantic wife calin me at work saying three guys in a van were parked across the street the next day. We live rural so this was something. 50 mile round trip from work. She took pictures of em and I recognized who they were. On approach they got all rubbery and said they were sorry and didnt mean anything.
I let them know they were right, and didnt mean anything.
Dont think for a minute management dosent know who was "sick" and who wants to work.
In this economy, you'll find that water very cold and extremely deep.
Hmmmm, might be a little passionate there.

Yeah.........The Fools can now drink the koolaid and kick back for a couple years on unemployment, food stamps, housing, free medical care.  Probably making nearly what they were making when they were working.   how stupid of them.

[G-Man]

FOOLS!!!
Thats like here, union says vote for the guy thats gonna cut the Military and defense.
I'm comin over for dinner post layoff. Ya better have enough and it better be good.
At least vote for your JOB!!
I went all Sam Kinneson on one of the tool stewards before the election. All I got was a frantic wife calin me at work saying three guys in a van were parked across the street the next day. We live rural so this was something. 50 mile round trip from work. She took pictures of em and I recognized who they were. On approach they got all rubbery and said they were sorry and didnt mean anything.
I let them know they were right, and didnt mean anything.
Dont think for a minute management dosent know who was "sick" and who wants to work.
In this economy, you'll find that water very cold and extremely deep.
Hmmmm, might be a little passionate there.

Yeah.........The Fools can now drink the koolaid and kick back for a couple years on unemployment, food stamps, housing, free medical care.  Probably making nearly what they were making when they were working.   how stupid of them.

How stupid of us!   

[Varmintmist]

FOOLS!!!
Thats like here, union says vote for the guy thats gonna cut the Military and defense.
I'm comin over for dinner post layoff. Ya better have enough and it better be good.
At least vote for your JOB!!
I went all Sam Kinneson on one of the tool stewards before the election. All I got was a frantic wife calin me at work saying three guys in a van were parked across the street the next day. We live rural so this was something. 50 mile round trip from work. She took pictures of em and I recognized who they were. On approach they got all rubbery and said they were sorry and didnt mean anything.
I let them know they were right, and didnt mean anything.
Dont think for a minute management dosent know who was "sick" and who wants to work.
In this economy, you'll find that water very cold and extremely deep.
Hmmmm, might be a little passionate there.

My wife would have taken a picture to, the lens would have crosshairs though.

[Patrick]

Boy,, I can't wait to see what the next 4 years brings..  It'll still be Bush's fault..

[Jeff K]

Yeah the people are calling for a boycott of their products. So I guess it is their goal to completely shut down and liquidate their own jobs. They are doing a good job of it. The company gets the added benefit of not paying any severance packages at all. 

[FLAVALK]

Unions have long outlived their usefulness  Now it's all about the union bosses...who don't give a crap about the rank and file

[Patrick]

Unions have long outlived their usefulness   Now it's all about the union bosses...who don't give a crap about the rank and file   end quote..

You should talk [ well, try to talk ] with my liberal democrat high ranking labor union official neighbor.. He'll certainly tell you how wrong we all are in no uncertain terms.. I'm even convinced he believes himself..

[czuch]

Fellas;
Mr. Lantern;
Key word, almost. I would be fine at "almost" my pay but, I like an onion in my beans and the cheese on the burger. If they have an unexpected bill , car, long winter etc, then they might not be able to put in the needed extra hours on unenjoyment to meet that.
Digger;
Only enough.
G-Man;
It wasnt night and the back-hoe needs fuel.
Thanks guys.

[FLAVALK]

Unions have long outlived their usefulness   Now it's all about the union bosses...who don't give a crap about the rank and file   end quote..

You should talk [ well, try to talk ] with my liberal democrat high ranking labor union official neighbor.. He'll certainly tell you how wrong we all are in no uncertain terms.. I'm even convinced he believes himself..

My uncle was a union officer for years...and years. You're right, arguing with one is like wrestling a pig in the mud. You ain't gonna win, and after a while, you realize the pig actually enjoys it 

[Stanley Steamer]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/labor-progressives-bullish-talks-obama-221029022--politics.html

[Jeff K]

On the FB strike page they are pretty pissed at the Teamsters. They thought they would get a bit more "brotherhood" from them. But as I understand it, the Teamsters had already come to an agreement with the company. They aren't feeling the love.

[hubcapsc]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/labor-progressives-bullish-talks-obama-221029022--politics.html

I heard an interview with one of these rabble rousers on NPR this afternoon... they just run on about

The president, like we are, [is] committed to preserving the tax breaks for the middle class and making sure that rich people pay their fair share. He's very, very committed to that, we are committed to that,

What is "the rich"'s "fair share"? They already pay most of the taxes...

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

SOAK THE RICH, they're not us, ef them! 

-Mike

[Stanley Steamer]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/labor-progressives-bullish-talks-obama-221029022--politics.html

I heard an interview with one of these rabble rousers on NPR this afternoon... they just run on about

The president, like we are, [is] committed to preserving the tax breaks for the middle class and making sure that rich people pay their fair share. He's very, very committed to that, we are committed to that,

What is "the rich"'s "fair share"? They already pay most of the taxes...

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

SOAK THE RICH, they're not us, ef them! 

-Mike

They don't want facts to get in the way of a good whining.......how many poor men every gave us a job??.....

[Jeff K]

Trumka and pelosi are right there at the top of the 1%

[GreenLantern57]

Fellas;
Mr. Lantern;
Key word, almost. I would be fine at "almost" my pay but, I like an onion in my beans and the cheese on the burger. If they have an unexpected bill , car, long winter etc, then they might not be able to put in the needed extra hours on unenjoyment to meet that.
Digger;
Only enough.
G-Man;
It wasnt night and the back-hoe needs fuel.
Thanks guys.

Umm, sorry! I was talking about the succession talk.

[Dogg]

Well, tax cuts run out in january. Doubt this admin will come up with a solution, including a viable budget that we havent hd for 18 months, all before 12-31. Dont see it happening. Besides, as of jan 1 st, about 20 companies or so have listed thier layoff schedule. It looked to me that almost 26000 people out of work in the first quarter. Boeing was asked to hold off announcements of 1800 layoffs until after election. All of this because jan 1 is obamacare effect date. None of these corps can afford to keep all these people and pay for the worthless who get obamacare for free.

[Jeff K]

Well, tax cuts run out in january. Doubt this admin will come up with a solution, including a viable budget that we havent hd for 18 months, all before 12-31. Dont see it happening. Besides, as of jan 1 st, about 20 companies or so have listed thier layoff schedule. It looked to me that almost 26000 people out of work in the first quarter. Boeing was asked to hold off announcements of 1800 layoffs until after election. All of this because jan 1 is obamacare effect date. None of these corps can afford to keep all these people and pay for the worthless who get obamacare for free.

They don't need or want a solution. They have a reason. They will blame it all on the obstructionist Republican Congress. The media will join in harmony, and they will completely destroy the Republican party in the eyes of all the fine Americans. It's a good plan for them, and it will work. Remember, the plan is to destroy the economy so we come begging the government to take over all aspects of our lives.

[mrbug]

I wonder... when you are picketing outside a plant, and they close up for good, do you still get strike pay? Do you still walk a picket line in front of a empty plant?

I wonder how many of them wish they would have made a different decision?  I wonder how many of the "sick" workers will head back to work tonight hoping they don't become the next round of closings?

This happened to Worth in Tullahoma.  They picketed for several months after the plant had closed, day and night.  I use to ride by and laugh at the fools.  None of them wish they made a different decision because they think that "the Man" was sticking it to them and were justified.  I have seen/been on both sides of the fence and am anit-union through and through.  I will say that it is just as much the companies fault as the union, after all they agreed to the silly contracts.  The South will rise again!  But first we will see how it goes in Texas.

[Patrick]

I had coffee this morning with our normal group and my neighbor came in,, you know,, the liberal union official..  I tried to refrain from the political talk,, but,, got dragged into the mud and started wrestling anyway.. He didn't know about the Boeing issue so naturally doesn't believe it and became furious regarding firings/layoffs starting next year denying such will ever take place.. Of course, everything is turning for the good and we'll be fine in a couple years after obama fixes Bush's mess.. Also, he refuses to discuss Prince Andrew [ New York's governor] and obama refusing to release any monies for infrastructure work to the upstate area after his union campaigning and donating millions of members dues monies to them,, oh,, you can't talk about that..
So you don't the wrong idea,, I am friends with this fella.. I help him whenever he needs it and he is a good family man.. I just have to keep reminding him not to bring up politics..

[czuch]

Green Lantern, I was one behind on the quotes, thereby looking like an idiot.
I've worked so hard to get up from idiot to moron status.
That secession movement is really something isnt it?

[Jeff K]

"if the strikes continue we will liquidate ALL PLANTS in days, not weeks"

Damn, I was hoping my son would be able to keep his job. 

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Business/Hostess-to-union-If-strikes-continue-we-ll-liquidate-company-in-a-matter-of-days-not-weeks?utm_source=copyright&utm_medium=OnSite&utm_campaign=copyright

[Serk]

Am I the only one that, when I'm reading a quote from a union boss, always reads it in Barney Frank's voice in their head?

[doubletee]

  I will say that it is just as much the companies fault as the union, after all they agreed to the silly contracts. 

That's where I am on the issue, too. If executive management is too stupid to see that agreeing to some of those terms is going to destroy the company's profitability in the long term, then I don't have much sympathy for them. I do feel sorry for the people who are part of the company and had no input into contract negotiations and subsequently lost their jobs.

[Jeff K]

  I will say that it is just as much the companies fault as the union, after all they agreed to the silly contracts. 

That's where I am on the issue, too. If executive management is too stupid to see that agreeing to some of those terms is going to destroy the company's profitability in the long term, then I don't have much sympathy for them. I do feel sorry for the people who are part of the company and had no input into contract negotiations and subsequently lost their jobs.

As a former employee I'll tell you where that thought gets murky. The union contracts that they are dealing with have come from a time when the company was very profitable. When I started with them we were making a lot of money. Well some of the plants were making a lot of money. So there was good times to share.
Interstate Brands was a smaller profitable company. Long ago they bought Continental Baking company. CBC was near bankruptcy liquidation, and IBC took over their larger competitor. The problem was that all of their union contracts and poor management came with the newly acquired plants. And slowly the management that destroyed CBC was doing the same to IBC. The big company we bought slowly took over the management of IBC. All the plants were managed at plant level and a lot of us were pulling in nice profits. But some of the plants were not ding well. So they decided to "share the wealth" and blended them all together, to "standardize". Everything went to hell from there. We never saw another bonus, and never made "budget" after that.
So the condensed version is they acquired those contracts in much better times.

[czuch]

An old friend of mine put it this way;
A union is a dog with a very nice bone.
He 's going across a bridge over a still mill pond. He looks down and sees, reflected, a dog, with a very NICER bone. Why? Because he dosent have that one. So he snaps at the other dog's bone. After the ripples clear, there is a dog, looking into the reflection of a perplexed dog, and neither one has a bone.
Not only are the union guys S.O.L. But everyone else at those plants too.

[FLAVALK]

"if the strikes continue we will liquidate ALL PLANTS in days, not weeks"

Damn, I was hoping my son would be able to keep his job.  

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Business/Hostess-to-union-If-strikes-continue-we-ll-liquidate-company-in-a-matter-of-days-not-weeks?utm_source=copyright&utm_medium=OnSite&utm_campaign=copyright

Unions are feeling froggy with Obummer winning another term and they think they can force the company to yield. I think they're wrong and will pay the price. In they're arrogance, they will pretend not to care....but they will...oh yes they will.

[Jeff K]

The CEO said if normal operation doesn't resume by Thursday, he is going to the bankruptcy judge to get the clearance to liquidate all of the plants.
18,000 people.
You should read the FB posts. Those people are nuts. They are actually happy that "it's finally over"

Some of them think this means they will get bought out by a new bakery owner and end up with better jobs. I don't think they understand what liquidation means.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/People-Against-Hostess-Brands-Unfair-Labor-Practices/273153449422643#


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-hostess-bankruptcy-liquidationbre8ad1up-20121114,0,3930833.story

[FLAVALK]

The CEO said if normal operation doesn't resume by Thursday, he is going to the bankruptcy judge to get the clearance to liquidate all of the plants.
18,000 people.
You should read the FB posts. Those people are nuts. They are actually happy that "it's finally over"

Some of them think this means they will get bought out by a new bakery owner and end up with better jobs. I don't think they understand what liquidation means.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/People-Against-Hostess-Brands-Unfair-Labor-Practices/273153449422643#


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-hostess-bankruptcy-liquidationbre8ad1up-20121114,0,3930833.story

You cant fix stupid. Do they think there's a run on bakery buyouts and takeovers going on in this economy... 

[RP#62]

It all sounds kind of like the demise of Eastern Airlines.  Things were very bad in the end, both sides were to blame, but what got me was when it was announced that the company had ceased to be, the picketers yelled, we won!   I just remember shaking my head and thinking really, what did you win?

-RP

[Jeff K]

It all sounds kind of like the demise of Eastern Airlines.  Things were very bad in the end, both sides were to blame, but what got me was when it was announced that the company had ceased to be, the picketers yelled, we won!   I just remember shaking my head and thinking really, what did you win?

-RP

I'm with you. If these people don't like the company, don't like their job, why not just leave? How is it "Winning" to put 18,000 people out of a job?

[salty1]

Sorry for your son's situation Jeff, but the union fools will reap what they sow! Too bad union greed will destroy this company. They should recognize damn near every local super market has a bakery and their products are not going to be missed. Whatever "niche" they thought they had will be filled in essentially overnight.

[GreenLantern57]

Green Lantern, I was one behind on the quotes, thereby looking like an idiot.
I've worked so hard to get up from idiot to moron status.
That secession movement is really something isnt it?

Czuch, No worries, just wanted to clear up the waters.

Jeff, sorry about your son. It is strange, but our area seems to still be hiring. Maybe not in food processing, but a lot of jobs none the less.  Siemens will be hiring soon at thier Power Plant facility soon, will be looking for master machinist for sure. And that means more engineering jobs too.

I have been on the receiving end of layoffs. What people don't understand it is not just the plant jobs, but the janitor supply people, the vending machine people, the grounds keeping company, the paper and box suppliers.  I could go on but you get the idea.  Thing is ,I can't think of anyone on THIS board that doesn't understand supply side economics.

[GreenLantern57]

The Hostess companies problems finnaly made the news.  Saw a blurb on AOL today.