Syria?

[donaldcc]

  ?

[alph]

from what i read, it's all a fake!!  according to the Drudge Report.  but then again, it isn't the "washington post" reporting on the story.....

http://www.france24.com/en/20130830-syria-says-us-evidence-chemical-attack-fabricated

[signart]

We simply can't afford it. Easy.

[donaldcc]

from what i read, it's all a fake!!  according to the Drudge Report.  but then again, it isn't the "washington post" reporting on the story.....

http://www.france24.com/en/20130830-syria-says-us-evidence-chemical-attack-fabricated

  don't trust their information 

[BF]

Now that Obama has stuck his foot in his mouth by drawing lines in the sand with his crossing the red line B.S., the narrative now is that it's up to us to "do something". 

So now that we're apparently days away from starting World War III, why in the hell do we think that it's up to us to be the world's policemen?  Isn't that the job of the U.N.? 

[alph]

Now that Obama has stuck his foot in his mouth by drawing lines in the sand with his crossing the red line B.S., the narrative now is that it's up to us to "do something". 

So now that we're apparently days away from starting World War III, why in the hell do we think that it's up to us to be the world's policemen?  Isn't that the job of the U.N.? 

well, the same argument could be made with GWB.  i highly doubt that WWIII will occure due to syria.  what i don't like is that if obummer had his way, he'd replace the syrian government with the muslim brotherhood, and we know how good those people are.....

[Patrick]

A syrian fella is working for me now and says Assad likes the Christians and if something happens to him, the muslims will slaughter the Christians[ which he says makes up about 10% of the population].  I have no idea what is really going on in that country or why we have to get involved. I believe france and England have backed out.

[The Anvil]

The only reason why that line was drawn is because of the Geneva convention. We're under tremendous international pressure every time one of these places flares up. We need to tell The other side of the world to police their own biz.

[solo1]

First of all, I don't believe anyone in the Obama administration. Their deceit is beyond words.

Second, Obama did all that he could, in his ignorance, to distance himself from England and now he wonders why the Parliament didn't go for the PM's requests.

Third, his 'red line' has put him in a bind and now he's trying to 'save face', maybe at the expense of our Armed Forces.

Fourth.  Why doesn't that regions country's take care of their own problems.  The US is no longer able to financially take on any more wars or 'limited strikes' because of cutbacks in the military due to Obama's bungling and opposition to Teddy Roosevelts "Speak softly and carry a Big Stick" 

Fifth, all that I see is that we 'must do something' , lots of emotion,  without any evidence of strategy or how to get out of it once we start something.

Our government is in a state of a 'cluster  ----"  (can't put that phrase here).

[eric in md]

well he hasnt done nothin for the working people yet.... ..  well how is this change thing working out for usa...   usa is in a world of hurt..   give aid to everybody but the once great usa .. really sad . he is a waist of good american air..

[Patrick]

Right now your president wants to throw a bunch of Tomahawks at them, at $1,500,000.00 each. I can't see what good Tomahawks will do except make our dick-head feel better and allow him to say that he did something. Stupid. I can't see where Syria and its problem has anything at all to do with American security. Every faction in Syria is America's enemy and every one of them hates us.

[eric in md]

Right now your president wants to throw a bunch of Tomahawks at them, at $1,500,000.00 each. I can't see what good Tomahawks will do except make our dick-head feel better and allow him to say that he did something. Stupid. I can't see where Syria and its problem has anything at all to do with American security. Every faction in Syria is America's enemy and every one of them hates us.

how do you really feel??

[Patrick]

Right now your president wants to throw a bunch of Tomahawks at them, at $1,500,000.00 each. I can't see what good Tomahawks will do except make our dick-head feel better and allow him to say that he did something. Stupid. I can't see where Syria and its problem has anything at all to do with American security. Every faction in Syria is America's enemy and every one of them hates us.

how do you really feel??

Well, ha, I don't beat around the bush. Ya always know where I stand. I get myself in trouble constantly for it. Its one lesson I can't seem to learn.

[eric in md]

Right now your president wants to throw a bunch of Tomahawks at them, at $1,500,000.00 each. I can't see what good Tomahawks will do except make our dick-head feel better and allow him to say that he did something. Stupid. I can't see where Syria and its problem has anything at all to do with American security. Every faction in Syria is America's enemy and every one of them hates us.

how do you really feel??

Well, ha, I don't beat around the bush. Ya always know where I stand. I get myself in trouble constantly for it. Its one lesson I can't seem to learn.

ha ha i got your back patrick i feel the same ..  truth hurt dont it.. people need to face the facts ..

[rocketray]

try todays info wars      B.O. is in it for his #1 political contributors........Saudia  Arabia      it really does make sense       remember in the first election when B.O. ran out of money at the end and miraculosly millions in small donations showed up??  look up you tube with him running across the room and sucking the Kings ring on his knee.....

[old2soon]

We have to do SOMETHING.  How's this fer an idea. We send the obuminater and the traitor and the gal the traitor replaced and the rest of the politicos over to Syria with W W I bolt action rifles still filled with cosmoline 20 rounds each and let the sorry-I WIIL NOT curse-folks from deception central do all the SOMETHING they want.  I've always felt that when our gubmint gets as sorry as it's gotten let those in "power" do the actual fighting. And as soon as they set foot on the ground-disavow any knowledge of them.  RIDE SAFE.

[Master Blaster]

Well the crawfisher in chief has figured out a way to shift the blame.  Suddeny claims he believes in the constitution, and will let congress decide.  If they deny him, he can blame it on them and say that he wanted to enforce the red line, but his hands are tied.  If they say go ahead and it turns into a SNAFU, well then it will be their fault.  An oily snake in the grass at his best.

[art]

What gets me is the British gov. is doing what the people want,stay out of it.Our Gov.dose not listen to the people,it dose just what it wants.There is something wrong here.We have no business there.Our gov.is a goverement of the fools run by the fools and for the fools.

[Patrick]

Well the crawfisher in chief has figured out a way to shift the blame.  Suddeny claims he believes in the constitution, and will let congress decide.  If they deny him, he can blame it on them and say that he wanted to enforce the red line, but his hands are tied.  If they say go ahead and it turns into a SNAFU, well then it will be their fault.  An oily snake in the grass at his best.

He is the consummate Chicago politician. Therefore, he can slither his way out of anything.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Why doesn't he just tell them to

"Quit clinging to their guns and religion!"

Then he could declare the whole country a "weapons free zone". It's worked great in Chicago.

Wonder if the real reason we've attracted the ire of the censors is politically incorrect comments like this? 

[musclehead]

Why doesn't he just tell them to

"Quit clinging to their guns and religion!"

Then he could declare the whole country a "weapons free zone". It's worked great in Chicago.

Wonder if the real reason we've attracted the ire of the censors is politically incorrect comments like this? 

probably, we are after all a bunch of old white guys  therefore not to be trusted

[Warlock]

What gets me is the British gov. is doing what the people want,stay out of it.Our Gov.dose not listen to the people,it dose just what it wants.There is something wrong here.We have no business there.Our gov.is a goverement of the fools run by the fools and for the fools.

I agree but looks like we have a country full of fools that not once but twice put him in office. Not with my vote. But being of the working class we are the minority.
David

[The Anvil]

Fourth.  Why doesn't that regions country's take care of their own problems.

Because since WWII we have been the world's police force and they've gotten used to it. That's as much our fault as anyone else's because we let them get used to it.

But part of the problem is that Europe has a history of doing absolutely nothing about these things until they become a problem like... WWII. You have a continent spanning and then continent jumping conflict. Europe does not learn from their mistakes any better than we learn from ours.

But we can't keep doing this. There is absolutely no good outcome from our involvement on the side of the rebels. In fact, keeping Assad in power is a better option for the US.

Send humanitarian aid to refugees fleeing the conflict. That's all I would do.

[shortleg]

  When we have two groups of people that would both kill
us fighting and killing each other why would we
want to do anything!!!!!.
   Let them kill each other and have God sort it out.
     Shortleg[Dave]

[LL]

I know this is all real but....
It sure has taken a lot of the conversation of Obamacare out of the loop

[john]

In early 2012, Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohammed Morsi pranced around Egypt proclaiming "Jihad is our path," and thought there was nothing better than to die in the cause of Allah—that is, the exact language used by terrorists!
Despite this, Barack Obama gushed on national television after Morsi was elected President of Egypt. And oddly—or not so oddly—Obama continued to gush over Morsi while reports surfaced that the Muslim Brotherhood were setting up torture chambers for their political enemies, not to mention openly crucifying Christians!
When Morsi was deposed, the Egyptian military discovered a treasure trove of documents linking the Obama regime with the illegal activities of the Muslim Brotherhood.
One such document is a list of Muslim Brotherhood officials receiving secret bribes in U.S. currency, paid out by the U.S. consulate, amounting to millions of dollars.
Investigative journalist Jerome Corsi has obtained a copy of the document held by the Egyptian military, proving the Obama regime sent millions of dollars in bribes to the Muslim Brotherhood.
But who was managing all of this money? Did the Muslim Brotherhood walk around with hundreds of thousands of dollars in their pockets?
Enter Malik Obama, Obama's half brother. According to Egyptian television, citing the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt:
The President's brother...is one of the architects of the major investments of the Muslim Brotherhood.
We're not just talking about the bribes the Muslim Brotherhood received in Egypt, but the entire Muslim Brotherhood finances—worldwide—that more than likely included an astounding $8 billion dollar bribe to the Muslim Brotherhood made by the Obama regime. The bribe was payment to guarantee that the huge tract of Egyptian land, the Sinai Peninsula, be turned over to the Muslim Brotherhood sister group Hamas, undoubtably to put Israel in an indefensible position. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas mince no words about their goals for Israel: total annihilation.
According to Egypt Daily News, a document exists showing the eight billion dollar  "holocaust" agreement with the Obama administration that was signed by former Muslim Brotherhood President Mohammed Morsi and his second in command Khairat Al-Shater, both under arrest by the Egyptian military for murder and treason.
Does this document really exist, showing the $8 billion dollar bribe signed by Obama or one of his representatives?
Undoubtedly.
According to Khairat Al-Shater's son, Saad Al-Shater, prior to being arrested by the Egyptian military, his father was in possession of information linking Obama with the Muslim Brotherhood that he says would put Obama in prison.
As reported by a multitude of Arabic news sources:
In an interview with the Anatolia News Agency, Saad Al-Shater, the son of a Muslim Brotherhood leader, the detained Khairat Al-Shater said that his father had in his hand evidence that will land the head of United States of America, President Obama, in prison.
If the Egyptian military releases this document, it would no doubt spell the end of the Obama presidency, bringing impeachment, a long prison term, and perhaps even the death penalty.

       Obama is a subversive piece of crap ...             
                      a hero ?         
                I think not ...                       

[The Anvil]

I know this is all real but....
It sure has taken a lot of the conversation of Obamacare out of the loop

Which is good because listening to the sore-vaginas was getting old.

[donaldcc]

I know this is all real but....
It sure has taken a lot of the conversation of Obamacare out of the loop

Which is good because listening to the sore-vaginas was getting old.

anvil I am normally supportive, but WTH does "sore-vaginas" mean.

also, Google is not going to like this.

[The Anvil]

I know this is all real but....
It sure has taken a lot of the conversation of Obamacare out of the loop

Which is good because listening to the sore-vaginas was getting old.

anvil I am normally supportive, but WTH does "sore-vaginas" mean.

also, Google is not going to like this.

Just all of the people whining about Obamacare and relentlessly tilting at windmills in trying to repeal it. The opportunity to fix healthcare has been there for years and for all of that time the powers that be were too busy starting wars to do anything about it. Well, someone did something about it and now all they can do is complain. Typical, really. Whining and sewing panic is what the right does best. It's the fuel for their prime-mover. 

I'll tell you this; the greatest fear among conservatives is not that it's going to ruin healthcare (because it's not and they know it because no industrialized nation with public health care is in dire straights) but that it's going to WORK and validate a major social program setting the dominos to fall away from them. I get that because I don't really want it to become the tipping point towards excessive socialism either, but I can't help but laugh at their scurrying into walls as they brought it all on themselves by ignoring one of the greatest problems facing America in favor of chasing turbans across the desert.

[donaldcc]

OK anvil, good discourse.  I am amazed we do not have better health care and am not sure about obamaocare but as a strong nation, we need to take care of those that do not have access to health care.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I know this is all real but....
It sure has taken a lot of the conversation of Obamacare out of the loop

Which is good because listening to the sore-vaginas was getting old.

anvil I am normally supportive, but WTH does "sore-vaginas" mean.

also, Google is not going to like this.

Just all of the people whining about Obamacare and relentlessly tilting at windmills in trying to repeal it. The opportunity to fix healthcare has been there for years and for all of that time the powers that be were too busy starting wars to do anything about it. Well, someone did something about it and now all they can do is complain. Typical, really. Whining and sewing panic is what the right does best. It's the fuel for their prime-mover. 

I'll tell you this; the greatest fear among conservatives is not that it's going to ruin healthcare (because it's not and they know it because no industrialized nation with public health care is in dire straights) but that it's going to WORK and validate a major social program setting the dominos to fall away from them. I get that because I don't really want it to become the tipping point towards excessive socialism either, but I can't help but laugh at their scurrying into walls as they brought it all on themselves by ignoring one of the greatest problems facing America in favor of chasing turbans across the desert.

I couldn`t agree more!

[Rams]

Just all of the people whining about Obamacare and relentlessly tilting at windmills in trying to repeal it. The opportunity to fix healthcare has been there for years and for all of that time the powers that be were too busy starting wars to do anything about it. Well, someone did something about it and now all they can do is complain. Typical, really. Whining and sewing panic is what the right does best. It's the fuel for their prime-mover. 

I'll tell you this; the greatest fear among conservatives is not that it's going to ruin healthcare (because it's not and they know it because no industrialized nation with public health care is in dire straights) but that it's going to WORK and validate a major social program setting the dominos to fall away from them. I get that because I don't really want it to become the tipping point towards excessive socialism either, but I can't help but laugh at their scurrying into walls as they brought it all on themselves by ignoring one of the greatest problems facing America in favor of chasing turbans across the desert.

Hmmm, well that's one perspective.   

[MP]

OK anvil, good discourse.  I am amazed we do not have better health care and am not sure about obamaocare but as a strong nation, we need to take care of those that do not have access to health care.

The problem is we completely changed our healthcare system, for the vast majority of those who HAD health insurance, to cover a few that did not.  We should have taken care of those, and left the vast majority alone.

The costs have SOARED above those projected by Obama. Lots of us have had our plans changed, contrary to Obamas lie that we would NOT.

Because of the way it exempts part time workers, essentially all of the very small employment gains we have had, are part time workers!  It is causing our work force to become much more part time.  Not a good thing. The biggest thing causing the unemployment rate to fall, is people dropping out of the work force! They have given up.

Will our nation come apart because of it?  NO.  But, it is making things worse than they could have been.

MP

[Daddie O]

It's interesting a thread about Syria is actually a whiny thread about our President, and Obamacare. 

First of all on Syria:  I don't think it is in our national interest to let anyone let alone women and children be gassed by the hundreds in broad daylight and do nothing about it.  It's amazing how conservatives turn from hawks to doves as soon as a democrat is in office.  When there is a conservative president there is nothing but support for going into Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else that suits a Republican president's fancy.  No problems at all with selling weapons to Iran when a Republican is in office.  Shoot, lets take the proceeds and give them to rebels in Nicaragua!

On Obamacare, I think conservatives have been fooled because of their blind hatred of democrats.  Obamacare is NOT a government takeover of medicine.  It IS a mandate to purchase health insurance from PRIVATE insurance companies.  The government will help subsidize the premiums for those less able to afford it.  Republicans look at the rising cost of health care and somehow think that Obama is responsible for it.  As if the cost of health care was declining before he took office.  You do realize that preventative care is far cheaper than emergency care right?  Right now under this private, for profit health care system we have now, we pay the most for care and get far less for the money than anywhere else in the world.  We do NOT have the best health care system by any metric, in fact we rank 37th.  It is my opinion that we need a universal, single-payer, government run health care system.  One similar to the ones run very successfully in most civilized nations.

[hubcapsc]

The US is no longer able to financially take on any more wars or 'limited strikes'

Bush 1 went into Iran, kicked their butts, and got out.

It seems to me that this going in and staying there is what does nobody any good,
especially our worn out four-tour-of-duty service men and women...

-Mike "just a civilian"

[Oss]

Well if the freakin saudi's and their oily friends of the
commander in chief want us to help their enemies in syria let them pay for the
tomahawks and the use of our navy

Say about 16 trillion dollars ought to do it for a few days of missiles
and zero out the deficit seems fair to me for us bailing their slimy asses out again

and kerry should send Jane Fonda to blow assad while he is at it

Otherwise

they should stick their asses up their camels toes and shut the f up before I throw up again

nice comments by the way jamie good to see you back in form  Patrick you know where I am on the issue

[The Anvil]

OK anvil, good discourse.  I am amazed we do not have better health care and am not sure about obamaocare but as a strong nation, we need to take care of those that do not have access to health care.

The problem is we completely changed our healthcare system, for the vast majority of those who HAD health insurance, to cover a few that did not.  We should have taken care of those, and left the vast majority alone.

No we haven't. Obamacare is going to have little to no negative effect on me and most of the people I know. In fact, I have a friend who has a proprietorship and thanks to Obamacare he will actually see a considerable reduction in his health insurance costs which are currently astronomical since he essentially pays his family plan himself in it's entirety.

The costs have SOARED above those projected by Obama. Lots of us have had our plans changed, contrary to Obamas lie that we would NOT.

Wrong again, maybe. The PROJECTED COSTS (since it hasn't been implemented yet that's all we have to go on is projections) have gone way up, depending on who you listen to. The prediction that I've heard that is most credible, is that costs will be very high for the first several years but will then level off and become manageable. You have to keep in mind that costs are already way out of line because the haves are paying for the have-nots, Obamacare or not. But at least now there will be a system to manage it. Please stop thinking only in terms of your own lifetime or the lifetime of your children. The cost of a program like this cannot be measured year-to-year. This is the kind of thing you measure in decades. Centuries, even. Some would label year-to-year defense spending as excessive and wasteful and all of the failures in R&D would be a grand canyon that cash was poured into. Look at all of the money we spent building nukes we never needed! But in 200+ years we have not been invaded. Coincidence? 

And maybe the government will find a way to screw the pooch entirely. That's why I allowed for a "maybe".

Because of the way it exempts part time workers, essentially all of the very small employment gains we have had, are part time workers!  It is causing our work force to become much more part time.  Not a good thing. The biggest thing causing the unemployment rate to fall, is people dropping out of the work force! They have given up.

I can go on a number of professional and skilled labor websites right now and show you HUNDREDS of good paying full-time jobs with full benefits all over the country. Some of them have been there for months and may eventually be filled by imported workers. Why is this? Because too many Americans have narrow skill sets or are undereducated or have training in areas that are completely useless in the real world. You want a PhD in underwater basket-weaving? Okay Lola Granola, knock yourself out. But don't come bitching when nobody wants your useless ass. Get a degree in a useful field or go to a trade school and learn a marketable skill. The jobs are there. The people qualified to fill them are not. So while that may be true that people giving up is part of the declining numbers, it does not tell the whole story. It's becoming a skill-centric world. Easy manufacturing jobs are largely GONE. What you have left is the service industry and there will only be so many of those jobs. For the rest of us? Adapt and overcome.

Of course, the way the this country treats re-purposing and re-skilling is a big problem. It would help a lot to support and encourage people who are looking to change course. It's like we intentionally make that as hard as possible. Certain stone-age thinking cadres treat the very concept of asking for help as eating at the fabric of America. What a load of crap. America is all about picking each other up in tough times. As long as both ends of the contract are fulfilled it's an honor to be able to help someone find a path for success.


Will our nation come apart because of it?  NO.  But, it is making things worse than they could have been.

True. If this country comes apart it will not be because you can now afford cancer surgery or because two men get married. The ridiculous reaction to these things will tear us apart. Whether it (Obamacare) makes thing worse though... that remains to be seen actually. What if people actually LIKE it? Canada and Great Britain are both very proud of their systems and having had personal experience with the Canadian health care system I can tell you that they have a right to be. It's very, very good.


MP

[Moonshot_1]

It's interesting a thread about Syria is actually a whiny thread about our President, and Obamacare. 

First of all on Syria:  I don't think it is in our national interest to let anyone let alone women and children be gassed by the hundreds in broad daylight and do nothing about it.  It's amazing how conservatives turn from hawks to doves as soon as a democrat is in office.  When there is a conservative president there is nothing but support for going into Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else that suits a Republican president's fancy.  No problems at all with selling weapons to Iran when a Republican is in office.  Shoot, lets take the proceeds and give them to rebels in Nicaragua!

On Obamacare, I think conservatives have been fooled because of their blind hatred of democrats.  Obamacare is NOT a government takeover of medicine.  It IS a mandate to purchase health insurance from PRIVATE insurance companies.  The government will help subsidize the premiums for those less able to afford it.  Republicans look at the rising cost of health care and somehow think that Obama is responsible for it.  As if the cost of health care was declining before he took office.  You do realize that preventative care is far cheaper than emergency care right?  Right now under this private, for profit health care system we have now, we pay the most for care and get far less for the money than anywhere else in the world.  We do NOT have the best health care system by any metric, in fact we rank 37th.  It is my opinion that we need a universal, single-payer, government run health care system.  One similar to the ones run very successfully in most civilized nations.

Syria. Multi-factional Civil war. Someone used chem. weapons. Some say there is clear evidence that it was the Assad regime. Some are not so sure.

We have a case of 3 camps at war with each other. Assad's regime, Muslim Brotherhood, and El-qadia factions. All have multiple factions within those camps. All are opposed and avowed enemies of the US.

Our enemies are killing each other. Grab a box of popcorn and watch the show.
Prosecute them for war crimes when the dust settles.

If there was one side with aspirations of Democracy, Human rights, religious freedom, women's rights, free peaceful political speech, I'd say let's back them, arm them, support them. Even sell lousy weapons to Iran to fund it.

But no one in that Civil war has those kind of aspirations.

The goal is to apparently be the last one standing so they can have the honor of trying to kill us.

Our policy should simply be to contain the carnage to Syria.
If the fight goes outside the border of Syria, beat it back into Syria with extreme prejudice.
Support UN refugee efforts at the perimeter of Syria.

I'll have butter and salt on my popcorn please, which I'm certain is unhealthy and not good for me and oddly brings me to...

Obamacare.

Healthcare brought to you by the same institution that brought you the Federal Tax Code and overseen by the IRS? Really?

The opening salvo of the Affordable Health Care Act was in excess of 10,000 pages. It continues to grow as the regulations expand.

For those who have had great Health Care Coverage, this is concerning. The idea that nothing will change for these folks is deceptive. An employer can drop coverage and pay a fine. A migration of customers from the private insurance ranks to the government rolls could undermine the insurance industry.

Meanwhile the uncertainty of the fallout of Obamacare has paralyzed many companies, large and small.

Companies that want to give employees more hours and pay but are caught in a myriad of new Federal Regulations that effectively limit the number of hours employees can work or. if exceeded, impose fines or force them to provide benefits that even the employee doesn't want or need.

Example. Grocery store here in town. Reg. time people are now only allowed 28 hours per week. Any more and the company is required to provide benefits or face fines.

But the store needs them for 38 hours this week. 30 hours next week. The employee already has Health care coverage through their spouse. But they can only get 28 hours a week.

Of course the store can hire more people, but who can make a decent paycheck at 28 hours a week.
At $8 an hour another 10 hours is another $80. That could kinda come in handy.

Just this one aspect is screwing things up terrible bad.

Does the Health Care system need work. It always will. But this proposal, to have healthcare brought to you by the same institution that brought you the Federal Tax Code and overseen by the IRS, is ridiculous.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Heaven forbid the grocery store makes them full time and provides insurance.

[Master Blaster]

Wow the left leaning mind assumes a lot.  Mainly that we are behind every country in the world whether its education, health care, gun controll, etc ad nausium.  They spout these feelings, that is what they are, they feel things, as the absolute truth.  Health care for instance, The US before the affordable health care act, or Obama care, was the health care magnet of the world.  I have a little experience with what its really like.  People come here from around the world for the serious stuff, and I am not talking a few here and ther, but by the thousands.  Ive been fighting Cancer since 04, and have had treatment from several of the largest medical centers in the country, and personally witnessed the diversity of their patient load.  Before then I flew Air Rescue for 4 years for several major hospitals, and it was the same.   Of course we are not following the European model, so we must be wrong, except many from Europe come here for treatment that they cant get or have to wait years for.   Obama care has one purpose and that is to evolve into a single payer system.  That system will be the government, and it will controll all health care, including hospitals, doctors, medical devices and procedures.  This will include the death panels that will let some beaurocratic entity  make the life and death decisions for you.  There will be no second opinions if you feel you are being jacked around.  The medical insurance companys will be forced out of the picture, so there will be no options except what big brother decides for you.   If you controll the health care, you controll the people.