NRA says bump stocks, devices used by Las Vegas shooter, should be regulated

[old2soon]

While I realize the shooter appears mostly at best a cipher at this point in time. As to the O P maybe an analogy may help some here. You bake a cake. You eat a piece. You eat another piece and so on and so forth til no more cake. BUT you can bake another cake. When your GOD Given Rights are taken away they are GONE. Period. Game Over. WE lose. END. RIDE SAFE.

[RP#62]

Maybe its just me, but to propose any type of legislative action before the investigation is complete and we understand what happened means that those proposing it don't care what happened, or whether what they are proposing would have prevented it.  Its just an opportunity to advance an agenda.  Reminds me of the joke where the police seeing the bank robber run into a building immediately surround an adjacent smaller building.  When asked why, they said they didn't have enough people to surround the bigger building.

-RP

Doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out he got many more people because of the bump stock.

per your scientist thinking ban all semi-autos, only single shot bolt action allowed.  actually this is part of the UN agenda backed by the anti-americans in congress and the senate going back to the '80s.

"only single shot bolt action allowed" What a BS piece of argument. The proposal is to ban bump stocks.

The problem is that the folks with other agenda's will use the ban on bump stocks as the premise that everyone should get behind and then add language to the bill that says something like "including all devices which..." which can then be interpreted by policy letters to include almost anything.  We've been bit before and that's why a lot of us are wary of renegotiating gun laws especially when emotions are high.

-RP

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe its just me, but to propose any type of legislative action before the investigation is complete and we understand what happened means that those proposing it don't care what happened, or whether what they are proposing would have prevented it.  Its just an opportunity to advance an agenda.  Reminds me of the joke where the police seeing the bank robber run into a building immediately surround an adjacent smaller building.  When asked why, they said they didn't have enough people to surround the bigger building.

-RP

Doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out he got many more people because of the bump stock.

per your scientist thinking ban all semi-autos, only single shot bolt action allowed.  actually this is part of the UN agenda backed by the anti-americans in congress and the senate going back to the '80s.

"only single shot bolt action allowed" What a BS piece of argument. The proposal is to ban bump stocks.

The problem is that the folks with other agenda's will use the ban on bump stocks as the premise that everyone should get behind and then add language to the bill that says something like "including all devices which..." which can then be interpreted by policy letters to include almost anything.  We've been bit before and that's why a lot of us are wary of renegotiating gun laws especially when emotions are high.

-RP

RP, I understand this is emotional for both sides. But for the best possible outcome sticking to the facts will work best. I understand that many on the pro 2nd side feel that everyone else is trying to take their guns. It's just not true. There are many who just want some common sense in the laws. In my opinion there is no good reason that we need unlimited full autos, unlimited bump stocks, unlimited magazine capacity, unregulated background checks at gun shows. We as a country can figure out ways to do this without taking anyone's guns. For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

[Jess from VA]

For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

With gun grabbers, we ALWAYS want to go nowhere.

And gun grabbers ARE demons (so demonizing them is easy).

And gun grabber common sense is a lie.

And gun grabbers are lazy.  They keep asking the government to take away our guns.  Why don't they do it themselves? 

If the grabbers want to change the constitution, they should go for it.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

With gun grabbers, we ALWAYS want to go nowhere.

And gun grabbers ARE demons (so demonizing them is easy).

And gun grabber common sense is a lie.

And gun grabbers are lazy.  They keep asking the government to take away our guns.  Why don't they do it themselves? 

If the grabbers want to change the constitution, they should go for it.  

Who are these people specifically that keep asking the government to come take your guns ?

[..]

Meathead
[/quote]RP, I understand this is emotional for both sides. But for the best possible outcome sticking to the facts will work best. I understand that many on the pro 2nd side feel that everyone else is trying to take their guns. It's just not true. There are many who just want some common sense in the laws. In my opinion there is no good reason that we need unlimited full autos, unlimited bump stocks, unlimited magazine capacity, unregulated background checks at gun shows. We as a country can figure out ways to do this without taking anyone's guns. For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.
[/quote]


Who "needs" unlimited full auto?

Who "needs" unlimited bump stocks?

What size should a magazine be?  1 or another quantity?

What is an unregulated background check?

[Rams]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

[Bighead]

A bump stock mine included never killed anyone

[Gavin_Sons]

A bump stock mine included never killed anyone

No way. I thought they just got up and killed people on their own. 
Let's continue to blame the guns and not the users. We never blame the car driven by a drunk driver that killed a young family. What the hell is the difference? Oh yeah, the gun grabbers agenda. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

[Bighead]

A bump stock mine included never killed anyone

No way. I thought they just got up and killed people on their own. 
Let's continue to blame the guns and not the users. We never blame the car driven by a drunk driver that killed a young family. What the hell is the difference? Oh yeah, the gun grabbers agenda. 

Gavin you do know they think that way

[Rams]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

Yeah, look at us.   Damn proud of what we have............

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

Yeah, look at us.   Damn proud of what we have............

exactly

[Rams]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

Hmm.........

But in that you used the military as a less than desirable example, one must assume you don't agree with that either.   That's alright, they'll still fight to protect you.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

Hmm.........

But in that you used the military as a less than desirable example, one must assume you don't agree with that either.   That's alright, they'll still fight to protect you.

You misunderstood the example.

[98valk]

Less Americans forget.
"History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time."
Anonymous

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana
N.B. This quote is sometimes paraphrased as:-
"If we do not learn from the mistakes of history, we are doomed to repeat them." (or similar)

In its original setting this "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" quote seems to have actually read:-

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."
Winston Churchill

From: A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks,
I thought you all would like to see the real
figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria.....alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
Rapes up 357%
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....'
You won't see this reported on the American evening news.
The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!

[Rams]

Less Americans forget.
"History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time."
Anonymous

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana
N.B. This quote is sometimes paraphrased as:-
"If we do not learn from the mistakes of history, we are doomed to repeat them." (or similar)

In its original setting this "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" quote seems to have actually read:-

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."
Winston Churchill

From: A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks,
I thought you all would like to see the real
figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria.....alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
Rapes up 357%
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....'
You won't see this reported on the American evening news.
The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!

Most realist know that there are predators and prey.   Those that can't defend themselves are obviously the prey.   There's another thread about that but, I gave up on it.   Those contributing were more interested in other issues than the original topic.

[Rams]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

Hmm.........

But in that you used the military as a less than desirable example, one must assume you don't agree with that either.   That's alright, they'll still fight to protect you.

You misunderstood the example.

Hopefully............

[98valk]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

INCORRECT! per the constitution, every able body citizen of the country is the army aka militia per 2nd (read united states codes for details). So there was always an army. What we didn't have in the beginning but do now is a standing army, which most founders warned about and were against.
u know there is this thing available now and was invented by Al Gore called the internet, u can use it to study the history of this country and the constitution. Good bye!

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

INCORRECT! per the constitution, every able body citizen of the country is the army aka militia per 2nd (read united states codes for details). So there was always an army. What we didn't have in the beginning but do now is a standing army, which most founders warned about and were against.
u know there is this thing available now and was invented by Al Gore called the internet, u can use it to study the history of this country and the constitution. Good bye!

if you don't understand the difference between a citizen militia and a trained standing army then maybe you should try out that Al Gore thingy. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

INCORRECT! per the constitution, every able body citizen of the country is the army aka militia per 2nd (read united states codes for details). So there was always an army. What we didn't have in the beginning but do now is a standing army, which most founders warned about and were against.
u know there is this thing available now and was invented by Al Gore called the internet, u can use it to study the history of this country and the constitution. Good bye!

The point I was making to Ron when he derided us being taxed, was its because of those taxes that we are able to enjoy the finest fighting force on earth.

[Rams]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

INCORRECT! per the constitution, every able body citizen of the country is the army aka militia per 2nd (read united states codes for details). So there was always an army. What we didn't have in the beginning but do now is a standing army, which most founders warned about and were against.
u know there is this thing available now and was invented by Al Gore called the internet, u can use it to study the history of this country and the constitution. Good bye!

The point I was making to Ron when he derided us being taxed, was its because of those taxes that we are able to enjoy the finest fighting force on earth.

The point I was making about taxes is applicable to that same slippery slope.    Taxes started off as a very small percentage and have grown immensely since their inception (as was predicted).

The very same thing is likely to happen in reference to the 2nd Amendment and you know it.

I've previously stated that I think bump stops are kind of silly toys that only waste ammunition.   But, Gavin is right, it's just  a tool.   When Chevrolet, Ford or Chrysler gets sued because some drunk got in a vehicle and kills a bunch of people, then it would be applicable to blame the bump stock.      Maybe we should ban pressure cookers to.

[Bighead]

Or in the words of Uncle Ted outlaw water because some will drown Roseanne had no answer to that

[MP]

I understand the reluctance to the NRA compromise.   It's a slippery slope.

At one time, this country had no taxes, now look at us................

At one time, this country had no army, now look at us...........

Times change  

We had an army, BEFORE we had a country.  That is how we got a country. We took it, by force of arms. THEN we got a country.

[MP]

For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

With gun grabbers, we ALWAYS want to go nowhere.

And gun grabbers ARE demons (so demonizing them is easy).

And gun grabber common sense is a lie.

And gun grabbers are lazy.  They keep asking the government to take away our guns.  Why don't they do it themselves? 

If the grabbers want to change the constitution, they should go for it.  

Who are these people specifically that keep asking the government to come take your guns ?

There were a number of politicians and Liberals on news shows demanding we outlaw a number of different styles of guns. A few called for outright banning ALL guns.

Joe Scarbrorough did, and he also, along with others, wants a ban on ANY bullet that can penetrate more than one person!  Well, there go almost 100% of rifle cartridges used for anything larger than rabbits!

If you are not seeing these calls, you are sure not watching the news.

[Gavin_Sons]

I invite each and every politician wanting to take guns to show up at my front door and try to take them. All of these idiots and their followers can kiss my ass because ill never give any of my guns up. I'm wearing a t shirt right now that says "when guns are outlawed,  I will be an outlaw".

[MarkT]

Maybe its just me, but to propose any type of legislative action before the investigation is complete and we understand what happened means that those proposing it don't care what happened, or whether what they are proposing would have prevented it.  Its just an opportunity to advance an agenda.  Reminds me of the joke where the police seeing the bank robber run into a building immediately surround an adjacent smaller building.  When asked why, they said they didn't have enough people to surround the bigger building.

-RP

Doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out he got many more people because of the bump stock.

per your scientist thinking ban all semi-autos, only single shot bolt action allowed.  actually this is part of the UN agenda backed by the anti-americans in congress and the senate going back to the '80s.

"only single shot bolt action allowed" What a BS piece of argument. The proposal is to ban bump stocks.

The problem is that the folks with other agenda's will use the ban on bump stocks as the premise that everyone should get behind and then add language to the bill that says something like "including all devices which..." which can then be interpreted by policy letters to include almost anything.  We've been bit before and that's why a lot of us are wary of renegotiating gun laws especially when emotions are high.

-RP

RP, I understand this is emotional for both sides. But for the best possible outcome sticking to the facts will work best. I understand that many on the pro 2nd side feel that everyone else is trying to take their guns. It's just not true. There are many who just want some common sense in the laws. In my opinion there is no good reason that we need unlimited full autos, unlimited bump stocks, unlimited magazine capacity, unregulated background checks at gun shows. We as a country can figure out ways to do this without taking anyone's guns. For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/01/01/reminder-sen-feinstein-said-she-wants-all-guns-banned/

Feinstein:
"If I could’ve gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them — Mr. and Mrs. America turn ’em all in — I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren’t here."

This is not the way many lefties are trying to sell their latest attempts at violating the 2nd Amendment, of course. Led by President Obama, the latest tactic is to claim that no one really wants to take away guns and that any claim to the opposite is just “fearmongering.”

Actually, Feinstein is confused at the least.  She could not take all our guns with a simple vote in Congress.  There's a little matter of the Constitution.  But it's ominous that a senior legislator thinks she can.  Even I know better. However they have successfully nibbled away at our right. A piece at a time.  Heating up the frog parboiler.

Read the rest of the article.

You aren't paying attention, Meat.  This has been quoted many times in the past here and very many places elsewhere.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[RP#62]

Here's the language of the proposed Feinstein bill:

3 ‘‘(v)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), on and
4 after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment
5 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to
6 import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or af-
7 fecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,
8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts,
9 component, device, attachment, or accessory that is de-
10 signed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-
11 automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle
12 into a machinegun.
13 ‘‘(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to
14 the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to,
15 or possession by or under the authority of, the United
16 States or any department or agency thereof or a State,
17 or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.’’;


Line 6 makes current possession illegal.  Lines 8-10 could be interpreted to mean after market triggers that simply reduce trigger pull, i.e. target triggers.  The devil is in the details.

-RP

[..]

Here's the language of the proposed Feinstein bill:

3 ‘‘(v)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), on and
4 after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment
5 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to
6 import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or af-
7 fecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,
8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts,
9 component, device, attachment, or accessory that is de-
10 signed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-
11 automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle
12 into a machinegun.
13 ‘‘(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to
14 the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to,
15 or possession by or under the authority of, the United
16 States or any department or agency thereof or a State,
17 or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.’’;


Line 6 makes current possession illegal.  Lines 8-10 could be interpreted to mean after market triggers that simply reduce trigger pull, i.e. target triggers.  The devil is in the details.

-RP

Washington DC weasels at work. Both sides.

[The emperor has no clothes]

For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

With gun grabbers, we ALWAYS want to go nowhere.

And gun grabbers ARE demons (so demonizing them is easy).

And gun grabber common sense is a lie.

And gun grabbers are lazy.  They keep asking the government to take away our guns.  Why don't they do it themselves? 

If the grabbers want to change the constitution, they should go for it.  

Who are these people specifically that keep asking the government to come take your guns ?

There were a number of politicians and Liberals on news shows demanding we outlaw a number of different styles of guns. A few called for outright banning ALL guns.

Joe Scarbrorough did, and he also, along with others, wants a ban on ANY bullet that can penetrate more than one person!  Well, there go almost 100% of rifle cartridges used for anything larger than rabbits!

If you are not seeing these calls, you are sure not watching the news.

This is what I found about Scarborough's stance on gun control. If you consider this position to be "outright banning ALL guns" then there is no point in continuing this discussion. If you know more about his stance than that, I'd like to hear it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/joe-scarborough-isnt-running-for-a-while-but-heres-his-gun-control-stump-speech/?utm_term=.1b0581ac71fe

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here's the language of the proposed Feinstein bill:

3 ‘‘(v)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), on and
4 after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment
5 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to
6 import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or af-
7 fecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,
8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts,
9 component, device, attachment, or accessory that is de-
10 signed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-
11 automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle
12 into a machinegun.
13 ‘‘(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to
14 the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to,
15 or possession by or under the authority of, the United
16 States or any department or agency thereof or a State,
17 or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.’’;


Line 6 makes current possession illegal.  Lines 8-10 could be interpreted to mean after market triggers that simply reduce trigger pull, i.e. target triggers.  The devil is in the details.

-RP

Agreed, it could be interpreted that way. This was proposed 2 days ago. Legislation works best when bills are proposed, put up for debate, amendments proposed, and better legislation comes out the end.

[Pete]

Here's the language of the proposed Feinstein bill:

3 ‘‘(v)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), on and
4 after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment
5 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to
6 import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or af-
7 fecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,
8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts,
9 component, device, attachment, or accessory that is de-
10 signed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-
11 automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle
12 into a machinegun.
13 ‘‘(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to
14 the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to,
15 or possession by or under the authority of, the United
16 States or any department or agency thereof or a State,
17 or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.’’;


Line 6 makes current possession illegal.  Lines 8-10 could be interpreted to mean after market triggers that simply reduce trigger pull, i.e. target triggers.  The devil is in the details.

-RP

Agreed, it could be interpreted that way. This was proposed 2 days ago. Legislation works best when bills are proposed, put up for debate, amendments proposed, and better legislation comes out the end.

Another stupid bill proposed by an idiot politician that violates the constitution - what could possibly go wrong.

She and anyone that votes for it should be convicted for political mal-practice and confined to a mental institution to protect the public from their actions.

Serk you did an excellent job in responding to and supporting this discussion - keep up the good work.
Some will not understand or agree - but they are still wrong - thanks.

There are many among us that will not accept any more un-constitutional restrictions on our freedoms and will not honor or obey them. And the US Federal government and the social repressionist - can not make it stick.

“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”

– George Orwell, “1984”
 

[MP]

For each side to demonize the other will get us nowhere.

With gun grabbers, we ALWAYS want to go nowhere.

And gun grabbers ARE demons (so demonizing them is easy).

And gun grabber common sense is a lie.

And gun grabbers are lazy.  They keep asking the government to take away our guns.  Why don't they do it themselves? 

If the grabbers want to change the constitution, they should go for it.  

Who are these people specifically that keep asking the government to come take your guns ?

There were a number of politicians and Liberals on news shows demanding we outlaw a number of different styles of guns. A few called for outright banning ALL guns.

Joe Scarbrorough did, and he also, along with others, wants a ban on ANY bullet that can penetrate more than one person!  Well, there go almost 100% of rifle cartridges used for anything larger than rabbits!

If you are not seeing these calls, you are sure not watching the news.

This is what I found about Scarborough's stance on gun control. If you consider this position to be "outright banning ALL guns" then there is no point in continuing this discussion. If you know more about his stance than that, I'd like to hear it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/joe-scarborough-isnt-running-for-a-while-but-heres-his-gun-control-stump-speech/?utm_term=.1b0581ac71fe

Never said Joe wanted to ban all guns. As I said, if you read it, is wants to ban bullets that can go thru a body.

[MP]

Joe talked about banning semi autos.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A few called for outright banning ALL guns.

Joe Scarbrorough did, and he also, along with others, wants a ban on ANY bullet that can penetrate more than one person! 

This is what I found about Scarborough's stance on gun control. If you consider this position to be "outright banning ALL guns" then there is no point in continuing this discussion. If you know more about his stance than that, I'd like to hear it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/joe-scarborough-isnt-running-for-a-while-but-heres-his-gun-control-stump-speech/?utm_term=.1b0581ac71fe

Never said Joe wanted to ban all guns. As I said, if you read it, is wants to ban bullets that can go thru a body.

Uh........maybe I'm just plain stupid. But it sure appears you said a few called for banning ALL guns and Scarborough was one of them, along with wanting to ban certain ammo.  It's pretty hard to debate such a subject when you won't even acknowledge what you say.

[Pete]

It is all semantics and a waste of time.
Most are no longer interested in having a debate, that applies to either side.

For the constitutional side, it is over no debate and no ban and to heck with the politicians.
No one would obey a ban anyway and the politicians do not have the ability to enforce it.

[Rams]

It is all semantics and a waste of time.
Most are no longer interested in having a debate, that applies to either side.

For the constitutional side, it is over no debate and no ban and to heck with the politicians.
No one would obey a ban anyway and the politicians do not have the ability to enforce it.

Such a ban will only make criminals of currently law abiding citizens.     Real criminals don't care what the laws are.   If they passed a law similar to Australia's, then (for the most part) only criminals will have weapons.   That should make the liberals happy at least until they are victims.   

[MP]

Joe talked about banning semi autos.

Thought I cleared it up when I stated this. Guess not plain enough.

[Robert]

A couple of interesting videos that make you wonder. The first talks about the purpose for this possibly false flag incident and who will benefit. But what was also interesting is someone seemed to know this was going to happen on a website and posted some interesting predictions. Just like the woman at the beginning of the concert that said they were all going to die.

I wonder if the new 100 million dollar towers in and out of the tunnels in NY that no one will talk about  is part of this same goal of scanners everywhere. The MTA doesn't even know or will inform people of the purpose of these towers

Mysterious Metal Towers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvuzlDnFsik


Eerie Predictions in Vegas... Cui Bono?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNqxUuyHFzc


Proof that a M240 Machine Gun used in Las Vegas Shooting @ Mandalay Bay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mXe9dk77bk

Sound is the same as LV military firing
M240B Machine gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImQ9COQ1bw

[The emperor has no clothes]

A couple of interesting videos that make you wonder. The first talks about the purpose for this possibly false flag incident and who will benefit. But what was also interesting is someone seemed to know this was going to happen on a website and posted some interesting predictions. Just like the woman at the beginning of the concert that said they were all going to die.

I wonder if the new 100 million dollar towers in and out of the tunnels in NY that no one will talk about  is part of this same goal of scanners everywhere. The MTA doesn't even know or will inform people of the purpose of these towers

Mysterious Metal Towers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvuzlDnFsik


Eerie Predictions in Vegas... Cui Bono?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNqxUuyHFzc


Proof that a M240 Machine Gun used in Las Vegas Shooting @ Mandalay Bay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mXe9dk77bk

So, you've moved from your ISIS inspired conspiracy ?