36" truck stack options

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Sadly, not in a financial position for a set of Mark T pipes right now, but looking at options. I bought my Valk this past Spring, and she's had some mods here and there; some by me, some by previous owners. I pulled the exhaust tips and covers today to evaluate what I have. The "piggies" were cut off, and at least the rear baffles drilled. I can see them clearly, but can't get a light to focus through the 1/2" holes to see what's up with the front baffles. I used the longest screwdriver I have, which has a 16" shaft, and she goes in handle-deep. Writing this, I just remembered that I have an old car antenna in the top of my toolbox. Not going out to the garage now, but I'll test the front baffles tomorrow. No Ragnar cut, thankfully. Not sure what I'll do at this point. I may cut off the rear baffle housing as a unit and modify it for a drop-in baffle for stacks. I've read at least 15 exhaust threads, and have probably 40 more if the mood suits me to keep looking.

Now, here's a question. I'm planning on replacing the covers with 36" straight cut stacks. I know Airflo has been the preferred brand of choice, but has anyone used Power Products brand? I saw these on Ebay, and the price is certainly nice, but quality is a concern. The Airflo pipes are twice the price, but are they that much better? My bike isn't perfect by any means, but it's decent. The factory exhaust covers and tips are thin and tinny, so I have to imagine that they're at least a bit heavier than that; hopefully much more so. Anybody seen these in person? Here's a link:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-36-OD-Straight-Chrome-Stack-Pipe/183152659418?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[MarkT]

Power Products has marginal quality which varies a lot. I have carried their stacks and have had to reject them frequently.  Their QA is wanting to say the least - if they even have one.  All stack brands I have found and I've been selling them for 20 years - compete with each other on price with one exception.  None have quality up to my standards so I pay the higher price for that exception.  And that's Dynaflex, made on the West coast.  Dynaflex is the brand Airflo sells.  Generally you will always get top quality from them - but they use UPS for shipping who often dents them as the packaging could be better.  The reason for the poor quality of American chrome is thanks to the EPA.  Remember the movie Erin Brokovitch?  The evil effluent in that movie was from the manufacture of hexavalent chrome.  The product on your bike.  After that movie there was a public outcry against the product and the EPA responded.  Those guys have very little profit margin thanks to the effluent rules from the EPA so they cut corners in the process and that shows up as blems and poorly adhered chrome.  However Dynaflex quality is so high folks will pay for it.  Better chrome - other than Dynaflex - comes from overseas where there's no EPA.  Venezuela, Mexico, and China are major exporters.  Better than domestic chrome except Dynaflex.  However - none are as good as Dynaflex.

All chrome stacks I've seen are .065" in thickness.  Substantially more than the Honda covers.  All are the same ID - they will fit closely on your OEM cans. Stacks are designated size by the OD and with the same wall thickness the ID's are the same and that just happens to be a close fit to the OEM cans.  Maybe not a coincidence - I didn't sit in on Honda's engineering discussions. You will need to remove the locator clip on the back side, and grind down the one spot weld which protrudes - left after removing your "silencers".  You won't need to weld the stacks on - they will stay by friction and in fact will bake on and be unremovable without power tools.  Your silencers are best prepped by "skinning" them to remove most of the outer can.  Leave a couple half-inch wide "lands" on each end which will need to be ground down some.  I do it with a lathe (having invented this mod about 15 years ago).

I don't buy from Airflo though I have.  I have a distributor who sells to me Dynaflex at a wholesale price and guarantees them against UPS damage.  No I won't reveal who they are - that info is proprietary and they as a distributor don't want to be hassled with retail support.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Thanks for the info, as always, Mark. You're an asset to the VRCC community. Like I said, I'd love to drop the cash for a full setup from you, but that's just not in the cards at the moment. I knew that my OE pipes weren't OE, since the sound was, well, a bit ratty.

I have access to a lathe, so I should be able to skin and shave the cut-off rear silencer setup for proper fit. Hopefully, I'll cut in the right spot for good access to weld the drilled baffles. A tape measure and the cut-open photo on ShopTalk (borrowed from you, if I'm not mistaken) should hopefully get me where I need to be. Won't sound as nice as your glasspacks, but should get me by for now, with my redneck mild to wild mod.

All of this requires time, which is harder to find than money (maybe). I have so many projects going that I can't keep my head straight. Every winter is the same thing. I ride until the roads get salted heavily, and then I put the bike away and begin servicing and mods. Seems like a long time, except I'm always scrambling to finish when the decent weather arrives.

Thanks again for the reply, Mark.

[indybobm]

I have read that the stacks have to be cut to clear the mount to the frame. Has anyone posted the measurements for that cut?

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I have read that the stacks have to be cut to clear the mount to the frame. Has anyone posted the measurements for that cut?

About 9" long by 2" wide, according to the guide I saw on ShopTalk:  http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/truckstackinstall.htm

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Went out and used the antenna mentioned in original post, and it appears that the front baffles weren't drilled. So, I got that going for me.

But, once again, in the bought used and don't know what you've got department, I need info. My right exhaust can is clearanced (dented in) where the rear diff is for clearance from the axle head. Running a straight edge down the pipe shows that it would actually contact with a full cover on the muffler can, ie: truck stack.

A: Is this factory, or another creative mod from a previous owner?

B: How much clearance is there between a 4" truck stack cover and the axle head on a non-modded bike?

[JimC]

Maybe I am missing something here?

If you use shorter stacks in place of the exhaust tips, there is no reason to do a clearance cut.
The new stacks butt up against the exhaust cover perfectly, just like the tips did.
All you have to do is measure where the bolt holes are, then drill the stack for the bolt.
I only used one bolt to hold them on and I have never had an issue.

Jim

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Maybe I am missing something here?

If you use shorter stacks in place of the exhaust tips, there is no reason to do a clearance cut.
The new stacks butt up against the exhaust cover perfectly, just like the tips did.
All you have to do is measure where the bolt holes are, then drill the stack for the bolt.
I only used one bolt to hold them on and I have never had an issue.

Jim

Maybe that's a less expensive way to at least achieve a better look, even if the sound still isn't what I'd like. I've seen posts where people have said that heavier gauge tips have reduced some of the "tinny" sound, which would at least help. And I wouldn't need to deal with the clearance issue my exhaust would have in it's current state. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Jess from VA]

Also in line with only new 18" tips (vs full length stacks), the piggies can apparently be replaced/repaired.  That won't fix the drilled first baffles, but should cut down on rasp.  And they are quieter yet if the new pigs extend just beyond the tips.

I think Mark T has old piggies on hand. (and new Airflow 18" tips don't care about the std/tourer vs interstate piggie alignment issue; vertical/horizontal).  



http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,38448.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=93959.0

If you are looking for less noise, straight cut tips are quieter than turn-outs, or cut off turn-downs which just bounce noise off the pavement back at you (turn downs not cut off will drag on aprons).

[Bighead]

Maybe I am missing something here?

If you use shorter stacks in place of the exhaust tips, there is no reason to do a clearance cut.
The new stacks butt up against the exhaust cover perfectly, just like the tips did.
All you have to do is measure where the bolt holes are, then drill the stack for the bolt.
I only used one bolt to hold them on and I have never had an issue.

Jim

The only thing missing is the look. A solid stack from end to end vs a gap between the two chrome pieces. A full length stack looks much better than anshort stack as a tip. IMHO

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

The only thing missing is the look. A solid stack from end to end vs a gap between the two chrome pieces. A full length stack looks much better than anshort stack as a tip. IMHO

Agreed, but I may just do the short stack at this point. If I didn't have saddlebags, I probably wouldn't. The savings can go to other areas of the bike, or into a fund for a set of Mark's pipes.

Haven't decided yet. In a way, I miss the pre-internet days. Back then, you didn't readily see so many ways to spend your money. I still found a way, though.

[JimC]

Oilburner,

I think you said that your piggies were cut?
If they were, you may like the sound with the short truck stacks added. It gives it a much deeper sound at idle, and a very deep (loud) growl upon acceleration, Plus, there is less drone on the highway because the stacks are about 3 to 4 inches past the bags on a tourer or interstate.

Jim

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Oilburner,

I think you said that your piggies were cut?
If they were, you may like the sound with the short truck stacks added. It gives it a much deeper sound at idle, and a very deep (loud) growl upon acceleration, Plus, there is less drone on the highway because the stacks are about 3 to 4 inches past the bags on a tourer or interstate.

Jim

That's what I'm hoping. Thanks.

[Jess from VA]

Oilburner,

I think you said that your piggies were cut?
If they were, you may like the sound with the short truck stacks added. It gives it a much deeper sound at idle, and a very deep (loud) growl upon acceleration, Plus, there is less drone on the highway because the stacks are about 3 to 4 inches past the bags on a tourer or interstate.

Jim

My two sets of Air Flow flat cut 18" tips are NOT 3-4 inches past my OE interstate bags, they are less than an inch past (maybe a half).  Which is plenty for good function and reasonable sound. (but you can extend repaired piggies farther back, sticking out of the stacks)  I've nicked the bottom of my tips leaving aprons (leaned over), and 3-4 inches past the bags would be worse for dragging (and backing down on a curb, low side).

Really, if you measure twice and drill once correctly, the flat-cut mating surfaces from exhaust end to tip is really a fine, nearly invisible line unless you're right up on it.  And under the bags, you can only see the high side pipe on the kickstand anyway.  Even with steel-wooled exhaust cleanup and lubing with bar soap, I had to  gently pound my tips on with a soft piece of pine and rubber mallet.  I did all three screws, but you really only need one (and that one should be hidden on the inside next to the swingarm).  If perchance you drill your hole a bit wrong so you end up with a slight gap, all you have to do is wiggle the drill bit enough to elongate the hole in the stack, then tap it dead flush (and the OE flange bolt heads will cover a wide hole).

I'm pretty sure I paid $42 each when I got them (like 12 years ago).
http://store.airflo.com/af40-418hs.html

[Bighead]

My full leg th stacks extend about 4” past the bags.

[MarkT]

I have several observations on subsequent posts here, but I'll limit it to this.

The dent on the right side is from Honda - it's superfluous.  Another example of no feedback from manufacturing or the field, to engineering. It doesn't affect, or help, anything.

If you use the short screw-held stacks instead of the longer (typically 36") ones that slide over the OEM cans, you will lose the ability to change the sound with silencers.  You will instead be fastening the tips to the back edge of the muffler cans - that is, the back edge of the "silencers" instead of cutting them off just forward of the rearmost spot welds, and repurposing them as silencers that can be inserted and pinned with one screw, inside the stacks thus enabling you to increase or decrease the volume at will.  

If your silencer baffles were drilled, they can be replugged after you "skin" the silencers, drive the plugs (the OEM baffles look like freeze plugs that GM inserts in the side of their engine blocks) in from the end and tack them in place with welds through the baffle holes on the inside of those tubes.  I have repaired drilled baffles on many silencers that had been drilled.  If you want I'll send you a set of 6 retrieved OEM baffle plugs for $26 which includes priority mail.  At that price because I have to extract them from baffle sets down in my barn - it's for my labor.

On the use of the lathe to prep the silencers - don't use a standard lathe cutter for that - it won't work as the silencers aren't exactly round.  Use a 4 1/2" angle grinder with cutoff wheels to cut the skin radially while it's turning, just through the depth of the skin.  Then use the same cutter to make a longitudinal cut between the other 2.  Bend the now loose skin apart with a screwdriver and slip it off the end.  Now use a flap sanding wheel held against the 2 "lands" while it's spinning to reduce the OD.  Check the stack will slip over it from the end.  Don't get it excessively loose.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

As always, thanks Mark. I've been pondering over some ideas now. I was thinking that just splitting the muffler probably won't get me what I'm ultimately looking for. I will likely utilize the rear baffle assembly as a silencer at a later time, but as a removable silencer behind glass packs; not the stock front half of the muffler. Since the 36" stacks will become one with the housing after time, I may as well only do it when I finalize the exhaust mods. At this time, I'll probably just add the short stack extensions, and possibly toy around with extending the "piggies". Maybe, maybe not. As with everything else, undecided.