Lean angle when on kickstand

[Moonshot_1]

I've got a 99 I/S and a 99 Tourer.

I've noticed the lean angle on the Tourer is significantly greater than the I/S.

If I stack a 2x4 and a 1x4 a top of each other and place it under the kickstand of the Tourer I can get pretty close to the normal angle of the I/S on it's kickstand.

The question

I am not a mechanic and don't know much about such things, but, could such a severe lean cause a carb or carbs on the left bank, (the low one) to seep gas when on it's kickstand?

This is the issue I am having. There is more to this story, but for now the above is the question at hand.

I (just today) put the bike's kickstand on the 2x4 & 1x4 riser to see if that remedies the issue.

[Chrisj CMA]

My 97 std leans a lot. Usually the most lean angle of all the Valkyries that may show up for our rides. I’ve had it almost 19 years and there’s never been a problem with the carbs. However, I do have a small block of wood under it to protect the floor in the family room so that does reduce the angle a bit whenever it’s parked but when out even overnighted it’s at full lean when on the stand

[hubcapsc]

I believe the lean angle differs from bike to bike, but there is stuff
that could get bent or messed up down there. If you have a chock,
or someone to hold your bike upright while you stick your head
under there you could check the places the kickstand bolts on
and check the "crossbar" on the frame down there...

-Mike

[98valk]

see here for easy low cost fix

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,93955.0.html

[Chrisj CMA]

I believe the lean angle differs from bike to bike, but there is stuff
that could get bent or messed up down there. If you have a chock,
or someone to hold your bike upright while you stick your head
under there you could check the places the kickstand bolts on
and check the "crossbar" on the frame down there...

-Mike

Mike, I’m under there almost every day and I can insure you nothing is bent and it still leans a lot but it’s never been a problem

[hubcapsc]

I believe the lean angle differs from bike to bike, but there is stuff
that could get bent or messed up down there. If you have a chock,
or someone to hold your bike upright while you stick your head
under there you could check the places the kickstand bolts on
and check the "crossbar" on the frame down there...

-Mike

Mike, I’m under there almost every day and I can insure you nothing is bent and it still leans a lot but it’s never been a problem

I don't think your frame is bent. 

Moonshot is wondering about his bike, though... I bet his bike is OK, too,
but stuff happens down there, especially with that frame crossmember...

It could even be a bent kickstand... Moonshot, I guess the little arm on
your kickstand fits nicely into the exhaust slot?

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

My identical 1999 interstates lean differently.  

And I got underneath and checked carefully and could find no bends or bumps or hits or anything on either of them.

I put a Honda chrome kickstand on one of them (years ago), but measured carefully, and that isn't it either.

I think if your carbs and fuel system/intakes are all good, a bigger or smaller lean should not cause any troubles, beyond all Valks briefly blowing a bit of white smoke/vapor on choked startup on the left (low) side.  So if the low side seems to be giving trouble, it's not the lean (principally).

I keep both my bikes shimmed up nearly straight in my shed.  And they cannot fall over even with a flat; they would lay on each other (bag guards to bag guards) or the walls.

Aside from any carb/fuel low side issue, you might be able to take a bit of lean away by shimming the kickstand mount with a washer or two, but too far up is worse than too much lean.

[Moonshot_1]

I'll have more to say about this next week. I do think that I am on the wrong track with the kickstand lean being a contributing issue to the gas seepage out of the low side carb bank. The bike seems to start and run fine but it a strong smell of gas as it sits and I get gas on my fingers when I rub the underside of the middle carb on the low bank.

There is a long story and history behind this particular bike. (Not related to the current issue, just me and the bike been through  and have done quite a bit.)

Right now the plan is to get to the local mechanic on Friday discuss the options and I'll post about then.

Thanks

Mike

[98valk]

I'll have more to say about this next week. I do think that I am on the wrong track with the kickstand lean being a contributing issue to the gas seepage out of the low side carb bank. The bike seems to start and run fine but it a strong smell of gas as it sits and I get gas on my fingers when I rub the underside of the middle carb on the low bank.

There is a long story and history behind this particular bike. (Not related to the current issue, just me and the bike been through  and have done quite a bit.)

Right now the plan is to get to the local mechanic on Friday discuss the options and I'll post about then.

Thanks

Mike

check bowl screws, 1/8 turn.
check the carb bank thru bolts. nuts on both ends can get loose allowing the fuel connections btwn carbs to leak.
I had one carb doing that tightened up the nuts with a dab of clear silicone on the nut and exposed threads, and hasn't leaked in over 40k miles.

yes the engine doesn't vibrate, but constant road shock from riding over the yrs, can loosen anything.

manual calls for all nuts, bolts, etc to be checked every 8k miles.  Pg 3-3 of tech manual.

[psckam]

My standard was listing to the port and when I checked underneath the bolt in the pivot was loose! Tightened ALL the bolts down there and all is ship shape

[Willow]

Two observations.

One is that if the lean is contributing to carb leak on sitting you likely need new bowl gaskets.

Second is that if it takes a two by and a one by to bring it up that's too much lean.  It is true that Valks vary in lean angle.  Lean angle can be impacted by rear tire size or shock size, even shock setting.  A bike with a steep lean angle should be brought to near up by a two by four under the stand.

[Jims99]

Two observations.


Second is that if it takes a two by and a one by to bring it up that's too much lean.  It is true that Valks vary in lean angle.  Lean angle can be impacted by rear tire size or shock size, even shock setting.  A bike with a steep lean angle should be brought to near up by a two by four under the stand.

I agree. I can get a 2X4 under both tourer and interstate and they sit up pretty good. If the bike was ever trailered with the stand down, that very likely could have bent the stand or bracket. The frame should be fine. You can get the stands and brackets from people who do trike conversation.

[MarkT]

I came up with a solution to the lean a couple years ago.  It's not cheap at first because it needs a core exchange of the OEM sidestand.  But return yours and the core is refunded assuming it's not damaged.  I call it "Bigfoot".  The sidestand is cleaned and clear powder coated.  The Bigfoot supports a choice of 2 height increases, easily changed.  Lightweight enough that the OEM spring carries the weight with no problem.  I have one ready to ship. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,100297.0.html



Here it is installed on my Jade:

[jbrooks]

You can also purchase beveled washers to put between the frame and kickstand mount. It will help straighten up the lean angle

[CoreyP]

I don't want my bike to be too upright for safety reasons. The bike is heavy and I don't want some kid, women or not so bright guy to get on it and have it fall. If your bike is left alone people can sit on it and I have seen that done for a picture or whatever. I don't think my bike overly leans so I'm not worried about it. If someone does get on it, it's not going anywhere. 

[MarkT]

I don't want my bike to be too upright for safety reasons. The bike is heavy and I don't want some kid, women or not so bright guy to get on it and have it fall. If your bike is left alone people can sit on it and I have seen that done for a picture or whatever. I don't think my bike overly leans so I'm not worried about it. If someone does get on it, it's not going anywhere.  

Wow.  You should be commended for worrying about the safety of others.  Or maybe you're concerned about damage to your bike?  Actually falling over won't hurt it - the crash bar will catch it, maybe a slight scuff if it's not already been over.  That's pretty much inevitable eventually. My Bigfoot mod is adjustable - I'm supporting fixing TOO MUCH lean - like a large tire and full size shocks - I have an Austone & 13" shocks.  Don't set the sidestand so it's too upright, and also watch where you park - pay attention that the spot isn't much higher on the left side. If some idiot knocks it over and whether or not they get hurt, likely that will give them a lesson on don't touch motorcycles w/o permission.  I can't imagine anyone touching my bikes w/o asking.  That is hugely ballsy.  Except Ahole HD drivers.  I've had them tamper with my bikes at fuel stops when I went to take a whiz, then the cowards run away before I catch them. I described that on my belly tank install thread. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,84264.0.html

[Jess from VA]

On rare occasions, I rode my Valk to work (block behind white house).

We had to go out to smoke, and many of us took short breaks out front where all the bike parking was.

One day, a big crowd of Japanese tourists were sticking their kids on our bikes for pictures.

I objected loudly and ran them off.  And told them to go over and stick their kids on the white house fence for pictures.

How you go?

[CoreyP]

I don't want my bike to be too upright for safety reasons. The bike is heavy and I don't want some kid, women or not so bright guy to get on it and have it fall. If your bike is left alone people can sit on it and I have seen that done for a picture or whatever. I don't think my bike overly leans so I'm not worried about it. If someone does get on it, it's not going anywhere.  

Wow.  You should be commended for worrying about the safety of others.  Or maybe you're concerned about damage to your bike?  Actually falling over won't hurt it - the crash bar will catch it, maybe a slight scuff if it's not already been over.  That's pretty much inevitable eventually. My Bigfoot mod is adjustable - I'm supporting fixing TOO MUCH lean - like a large tire and full size shocks - I have an Austone & 13" shocks.  Don't set the sidestand so it's too upright, and also watch where you park - pay attention that the spot isn't much higher on the left side. If some idiot knocks it over and whether or not they get hurt, likely that will give them a lesson on don't touch motorcycles w/o permission.  I can't imagine anyone touching my bikes w/o asking.  That is hugely ballsy.  Except Ahole HD drivers.  I've had them tamper with my bikes at fuel stops when I went to take a whiz, then the cowards run away before I catch them. I described that on my belly tank install thread. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,84264.0.html

No, I'm not really worried about the bike falling over, think there would be no damage. The thing is I have teenagers and live in a kids neighborhood. I tell the kids to stay away from the bike because it's heavy and you don't want it to fall on you. That is really my concern. The kids get into things and you never know what dumb ass idea they will have. Today I woke up to a syrup bottle that had it's handle duck taped. "Anyone want to explain what happened here?"  Pretty much how my life has been going lately. Don't want to break it to you but children aren't that smart but when they get bigger they're not that smart but big enough to to cause huge damage. LOL. Giant chromed out motorcycle can become a target of their fascination. Let's put girl friend up on it for pic? Etc. etc.

Even on a city street I don't want someone crushed under my bike. I don't think that would happen but ??????

[msb]

My IS has always had quite a lean, from right after I purchased her with less than 3000 km over 19 years ago. Used to carry around a thick plastic foot pad, but then I did similar to what MarkT offers. Had a friend here fabricate this for me several years back.


When off the road for Winter (usually only 3 months or so), it sits upright on an ATV jack, and gets started at least once a week. No problems so far.

[RWhitehouse]

My '98 Tour had a pretty heavy lean with the stock shocks cranked up and an Austone on the back. Using a super scientific phone app, I measured this to be roughly 17*.

I removed the kickstand bracket and slipped a maybe 1/8" spacer between the bracket and the frame crossmember on the outboard side. This reduced the bike's lean to about 13*, which to me felt a lot more "normal". Nothing looked bent or damaged. There was a bit of slop in the pivot which is somewhat expected, but none of the bolts were loose.

I'd heard reducing kickstand lean on the Valk would risk a tipover if a tire went flat and the heavy factory lean angle was intentional So I tried this (after adding the spacer on the bracket), pulled the valve stems from both tires. It sagged, and lean only showed about 5*, although it was still fairly secure(mushy flat tires deter it rocking). It wouldn't fall on it's own, and it would still take more than a casual bump or gust of wind to push it over. Kids playing on it, maybe.  But not something I'd consider to be a serious concern.

To compare, my RE Himalayan (which I think has not enough lean), only measures 9-10* on the kickstand.  On that bike, if you're sitting on it you often need to lean to the right a little just to get the kickstand all the way down, then hop off and the suspension unloading gives it a bit of lean. It has a centerstand so less of an issue, but it's a fairly frequent complaint among owners.

I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 12-15* lean angle on the stand.

[MarkT]

No, I'm not really worried about the bike falling over, think there would be no damage. The thing is I have teenagers and live in a kids neighborhood. I tell the kids to stay away from the bike because it's heavy and you don't want it to fall on you. That is really my concern. The kids get into things and you never know what dumb ass idea they will have. Today I woke up to a syrup bottle that had it's handle duck taped. "Anyone want to explain what happened here?"  Pretty much how my life has been going lately. Don't want to break it to you but children aren't that smart but when they get bigger they're not that smart but big enough to to cause huge damage. LOL. Giant chromed out motorcycle can become a target of their fascination. Let's put girl friend up on it for pic? Etc. etc.

Even on a city street I don't want someone crushed under my bike. I don't think that would happen but ??????

Thanks for enlightening me as I thought children and esp teenagers were super-bright and always think through possible consequences of their actions.  Just ask them, all adults are stupid and they know it all.  Just wish they would solve world hunger, the pandemic, wars and cancer quick before they are over 19 and get dumb like their predecessors.

FYI I'm betting I'm older than you and have plenty of experience with children and teenagers.  Maybe a little DON'T TOUCH sign on the seat assuming they can read - one too young to read is also too small to knock it over. Assuming you're concerned for teenager's safety.  I'm not.

Frankly if they knock the bike over it's a lesson.  To knock it over they must be teenagers to be strong and smart enough to touch it and knock it over while being brainy enough to think that's a good idea.  Never heard of 1%ers obviously.  They better move quick if they are in the way.  I might get out there when I get done in the store in time to alleviate their smashed-foot pain.

Then you have folks like Jess's Jap tourists with no sense of property and limits.  Frankly they need the lesson as well.  Along with an ass-chewing.

[CoreyP]

Almost all you guys here are older than me. The old Valkyries do seem to be falling into another generations hands. Cheap, fast and interesting, what could be better? I personally don't like the new black out style bikes so when I spotted a chromed out Valkyrie for sale it peaked my interest. Think that is happening to a lot of younger (retaliative term) guys.  Don't think the 20 years are after these.

I'm sure many of you have child experience it's just I'm in thick of it at the moment so I always think what will these idiots try to do with this?  I got a bunch of 16 year olds on my hands with old trucks and they figured out that I may be useful. "He has tools and knows how to do stuff."  I've leveled up, I'm now the senile guy who knows what a carb is and I can drive a manual.......witch craft....   

[gordonv]

Almost all you guys here are older than me.

<snip>

"He has tools and knows how to do stuff."  I've leveled up, I'm now the senile guy who knows what a carb is and I can drive a manual.......witch craft....   

LOL    I couldn't help but laugh. How true. Ask them about computers, and they have the answer. But to change a light bulb, isn't it an LED and last forever?

[cookiedough]

My identical 1999 interstates lean differently.  

And I got underneath and checked carefully and could find no bends or bumps or hits or anything on either of them.

I put a Honda chrome kickstand on one of them (years ago), but measured carefully, and that isn't it either.

I think if your carbs and fuel system/intakes are all good, a bigger or smaller lean should not cause any troubles, beyond all Valks briefly blowing a bit of white smoke/vapor on choked startup on the left (low) side.  So if the low side seems to be giving trouble, it's not the lean (principally).

I keep both my bikes shimmed up nearly straight in my shed.  And they cannot fall over even with a flat; they would lay on each other (bag guards to bag guards) or the walls.

Aside from any carb/fuel low side issue, you might be able to take a bit of lean away by shimming the kickstand mount with a washer or two, but too far up is worse than too much lean.

agree too far up is worse than too much lean,  ask me how I know?  My 2001 I/S did something stupid this past winter after 9 years owning it.  Rear tire slowly leaked air and after 1 cold WI winter night the tire went down to under 20 psi and decided this past winter to put an at most 1/2 inch wood board under kickstand.  DO NOT do that with a underinflated rear tire, it will right itself upright and tip over on the right side falling the cycle over.  NOT good.  

My 98 tourer leans over further than my I/S also so I do not worry about it.  Sizing of tires and shocks can also affect lean angle.  I noticed ASAP when I took that old car tire off my 98 tourer and put on a cycle tire,  the lean angle to the left on sidestand is drastically further leaning over.