Cracked rear rim I/S: how is that possible?

[Savago]

Gentlemen

Today I decided to go for a short ride (blue skies and balmy 66F) on my I/S@1999.

A couple blocks away from home, I heard a weird noise when I used the rear brakes while stopping at an intersection.

People who are old timers here in the forum may remember I had a pretty bad final drive (FD) failure way back in 2016 when I was planning to ride from the Sequoia National Park through the Death Valley.

I decided to return home and inspect the bike and... oh boy! I will let the pictures speak for itself:


And a close-in:


I had this rim replaced when the FD crap out in 2016, it was second hand but it was in good state. Who did the job was a Goldwing specialized shop (WingNuts) that are now long gone... pretty much all bike shops are going the way of the dodo here in the SF Bay Area (i.e. crazy environmental requirements for any shop plus the State push towards EVs, but that is another story).

I'm kinda lost here. What could cause this kinda of failure? Anyone ever seen something like that?

Now I would like to ask for help for writing a parts list that you feel may be needed to replace (my guess would be new rim, bearings, rubber parts, etc?).

I got share that while I consider myself lucky (i.e. it could be much, much worst if the bike broke in the middle of nowhere), I'm kinda heart broken.

I had a FD + rim replaced in this bike in 2016 with around 76K miles. The bike has now only 83K miles.

Then three alternators in 2017 (first one was rebuilt and failed, second one was third-party high output but would only generate power past 1300 RPMs plus leaked oil, last one I bite the bullet and went original).

Last year it was the brake calipers had to be rebuilt and the rotors replaced, thanks to a botched job done in 2014 by a bike shop in Sunnyvale.

Have I mentioned that I replaced the radiator fan in 2016?

This bike was my companion in a big trip in 2015 through the North-west of the USA. I could have done it in my vstrom (newer and with less miles), but I wanted to do my first big ride in the USA in a "Made in USA" bike and chose the Valkyrie.

After all the mechanical failures, my lack of trust in the bike pushed me to buy a ST1300 which is my current ride for long trips.

I love my valkyrie, but I have the impression the bike doesn't love me back. Perhaps its fun days are over.
 

[da prez]

  I have wheel and contact me for other parts.

                                                 da prez

[The emperor has no clothes]

From the pic it doesn’t look like there is a wheel spacer attached.

[RonW]

From the pic it doesn’t look like there is a wheel spacer attached.

Agreed. But how in tarnation could the rear wheel not shift left to right on the axle?!


I thought the dust seal might have slipped over the spacer, but the shoulder on the spacer would have kept the dust seal from seating flush with the brake bracket.

[The emperor has no clothes]

From the pic it doesn’t look like there is a wheel spacer attached.

Agreed. But how in tarnation could the rear wheel not shift left to right on the axle?!


I thought the dust seal might have slipped over the spacer, but the shoulder on the spacer would have kept the dust seal from seating flush with the brake bracket.

I don’t know. But I’m sure ready to hear from the Brazillion.  It doesn’t make any sense, he said he’d ridden it since the service. I can’t imagine it lasting any time at all without the spacer.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Upon looking at the pic further, it may be the dust seal over the spacer and up against the shoulder.

Maybe an angle from direct rear ?

[Savago]

Another angle, see if that helps:

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yeah, I think that’s what it is. I sure don’t know what would have caused that.

Before you go spending much on a wheel and parts, I think I’d want to see if anything in the pumpkin was screwed up.

[Jess from VA]

After riding home from MA to VA with my new (to me) '99 Supervalk, I had to ride it to work in DC to show it off to the bike guys (always a row of bikes parked out front of my Federal building).  DC roads are notoriously poor.

So midmorning, I'm showing it to the guys, and one says... what's up with your rear wheel?  And points out a big bend/ding right at the edge of the tire bead.  Bad enough to let all the air out, though it didn't let any out.  Had to be a big DC pothole, though I couldn't remember any big jolt that morning.

So I made it home, and took the wheel to my tech who said he could try a hydraulic press, but it might crack the wheel, and it did.  So I ordered a good used rear wheel from Pinwall Cycle in OH.  For less than half of cost new.  That was at 28K, bike now with 107K and no wheel troubles (other than crud).

I've never seen or heard of wheel damage like yours.   Hard to believe it has no spacer on the axle.

I'd contact Ross (da prez) and take him up on his offer (earlier post).  Even if you decide to bail on your Valk, it needs fixed before any sale.

[Avanti]

Could be caused by a bearing failure.

[SCain]

Another angle, see if that helps:

It looks to me like the spacer is there, its right next to the seal in this pic, you can see the flange side of the spacer up against the caliper bracket.
With out a spacer, you wouldn't have been able to torque the rear axle properly.
Just my .02

[Pluggy]

Yes, it looks like the spacer is there.  Until it is all taken apart, the cause of failure is a speculation.

[Chrisj CMA]

I too believe I see the flange of the spacer. But there is a dent. Impact depression around the crack. Something whacked that hub pretty hard from the outside. That depression could not have been caused by bearing failure but it could have caused bearing failure.

[Pluggy]

I too believe I see the flange of the spacer. But there is a dent. Impact depression around the crack. Something whacked that hub pretty hard from the outside. That depression could not have been caused by bearing failure but it could have caused bearing failure.

Agreed.  I read a post where a guy says he had to beat on the wheel with a large hammer to install it.  And a pry bar may be part of this.  Those things unfortunately happen.  A small crack can go unnoticed and grow.

I have seen o-ring kits that are similar to metric but are really US sizes.  If some of these require extra force during assembly, a "git 'er done" mechanic may resort to harsh methods.

[Savago]

@all: I really appreciate the feedback.

What I'm planning to do in this coming weekend is to lift the rear wheel and inspect the pumpkin (I hope it didn't ground itself to oblivion).

As I make progress, I will post here.

I guess the worst case scenario would require new rim + bearings + final drive + axle?

[Jess from VA]

I guess the worst case scenario would require new rim + bearings + final drive + axle?

New (used) wheel and new (Honda) bearings for sure, but if the bike has been otherwise running and riding normally, that might be all.

Every time the rear wheel is off is time for clean and lube and Orings.  And inspection.

[Willow]

It's been said earlier in the thread.

My first impression and it still holds is that someone used a hammer where it should not have been.

[Savago]

It's been said earlier in the thread.
My first impression and it still holds is that someone used a hammer where it should not have been.

And to think I had the bike towed from Sunnyvale to Fairfield (80 miles) in 2016 to have it serviced by 'goldwing specialists'. 

[Rio Wil]

I am betting on the internal bearing spacer is missing and the axle was torqued down on the bearing races and ate the left side bearing and the slop cracked the bearing housing....right side bearing is probably toast also.
Doesnt the dust seal reside on the small diameter of the spacer and the seal is pressed into the hub.....enlargement of the hub allowed the dust seal to float free..

Don, The wing nut guy probably knows more about GW's and Valks than anyone....was sorry to see him relocate to somewhere back east. The last few years he was here he quit working on Valks at all and specialized in GW's.

I am not so sure the mark on the hub is not a shadow and the little lip hanging out there was caused from inside the hub......the tiny crack tho does suggest an outside influence....

[hubcapsc]

I am betting on the internal bearing spacer is missing

Once I someone I know left out the distance spacer and I he
could tell while tightening the axle something was wrong...

-Mike

[Jims99]

It’s possible that the spacer was cut down for bearing mod. If you changed rims or had someone change bearings that doesn’t know, could have caused this. I have done this mod on all of mine. Spacers get cut down for bigger bearing and is not easily noticeable.

[Valker]

The spacer inside the rim should not be cut down. Only the spacer that goes between the bearing and the brake caliper.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It’s possible that the spacer was cut down for bearing mod. If you changed rims or had someone change bearings that doesn’t know, could have caused this. I have done this mod on all of mine. Spacers get cut down for bigger bearing and is not easily noticeable.

In those cases isn’t the dust seal deleted to make room for the double row bearing ?

[Valker]

^^^Yes.

[Jims99]

Dust shield would be gone with updated bearing, but if someone put stock bearing in they would have put dust shield back on not knowing.
And yes, outside spacer gets cut down.

[Skinhead]

Dust shield would be gone with updated bearing, but if someone put stock bearing in they would have put dust shield back on not knowing.
And yes, outside spacer gets cut down.

I have done several double row bearing mods on mine and others Valkyries.  They all have the dust shield, it is just JB welded to the wheel.  Works great an keeps dust out of he bearing.

[Savago]

  I have wheel and contact me for other parts.

                                                 da prez

Private message sent.

[Savago]

Do you guys know if this rim would fit a I/S 1999?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204255238875

[Jess from VA]

Do you guys know if this rim would fit a I/S 1999?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204255238875

Savago, the add says it's a '99 IS wheel.  I have 2 '99s and it sure looks like mine.

(BTW, like 85% of all Interstates are '99s, and the 01s and 02s rear wheels are identical.)

It even already has a metal valve stem in it. 

[Willow]

...
It even already has a metal valve stem in it. 

Are you sure?  It looks like an OEM without the support.

[Jess from VA]

...
It even already has a metal valve stem in it. 

Are you sure?  It looks like an OEM without the support.

Hard to tell.  You may be right.

My new used IS rear wheel ran me the same money 15 years ago, that may be a pretty good price today.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Do you guys know if this rim would fit a I/S 1999?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204255238875

Yes. If you look thru the pics, you will find one of the brake side, with all the casting numbers. It is a “2J” versus the earlier “1J”.
(It also has the OEM valve that needs replaced) I’m feeling pretty smug about getting my extra wheel for $25 

[..]

Do you guys know if this rim would fit a I/S 1999?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204255238875

Seems like a good price with free shipping.

[RonW]

...
It even already has a metal valve stem in it.  

Are you sure?  It looks like an OEM without the support.

It's an oem valve stem judging by this screenshot.

It's wiser to replace the oem valve stem since the rubber base has probably degraded some and one without a rubber base. I used the Myer's with the metal base because the nut is on the outside of the wheel. I was able to reuse the valve stem holder. The oem valve stem with it's rubber base is okay is you replace it every so often.

[Savago]

A status update: I bought a car jack at Harbor freight and proceeded with the work to check the amount of damage.

I have the I/S lifted using a scissor type jack rated for 1100 lbs (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009W997X6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). One advantage of this jack is that it doesn't use any oil or piston, it should in theory be safer and have lesser risk of collapsing.

I have Mark T lift adapter installed in the bike (http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,100774.0.html), that is a life saver.


I'm also using a wheel choke rated for 1800 lbs (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CE0R7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

For raising the rear wheel after removing the shocks, I'm using a Pittsburg low profile jack rated for 2 tons for cars (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-low-profile-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-red-57047.html).

[Savago]

The setup:

[Savago]

While removing the spacer, I noticed that the bearing spheres were... loose.

I wonder what could have caused this failure in the bearing?

[Savago]

I'm not a specialist, but my guess is that the spacer is gone...
 

[Savago]

With my heart pounding, I proceed at inspecting the flange....

It looked pretty dirty but didn't seem damaged.

[Savago]

Cleaning it up, it seems to be in good shape.

What you guys think?