A religious question for Robert.

[Bobbo]

Ride with the King

Oh, yea!

[Robert]

Who said advertising doesn't work

[x]

If you know the Bible and dont either tell people about it or show it by your actions then you are really saying,,, go to hell

Ha ha ha ha ... har har har har... he he he he... 

Have another glass of kool aid, son.

[Billy]

Yuks aside, the Pauline-Lukan writings including the Book of Acts was  written much in the Hellenic rhetoric device thus meant to persuade. It was written as propaganda for the groups it was read to from the 2nd Century to the present, in this case by Paul and his group. There was much competition between the early developing sects of Christianity. The Mathew -Mark writings were at odds and then there were entirely different sects such as the Gnostics. In the end the Orthodox dogma won out either by persuasion or by condemning the opposing views as heretical.

[3fan4life]

What cracks me up is that all the Christians posting here are absolutely certain they have the truth.  The fact is, they have a point of view, just like everyone has a point of view.
 
When those that are convinced that they have the 'only way' to salvation and spirituality finally wake up and realize that there is more than one 'right way', they (and us) will be ahead of the game.
 
Jesus was a man.  Jesus and Buddha conveyed much the same message.  The kingdom is within, and is now... not some far away place that you go when you croak.

What “cracks” me up is your inference that anyone practicing any religion would not think that they are “RIGHT”. 

Why on earth would anyone worship a God that they didn’t BELIEVE in?

YES we Christians believe that we are “RIGHT”.
Muslims believe that they are right, Jews believe that they are right, Hindus believe that they are right and so on and so on.

My argument to the whole Christ thing would be this; if Jesus so loved the world, why hasn’t he been back since he left 2000 years ago?  Sure, people see his image in water stains, potato chips, even the wood grain on oak doors.  If he can “rise from the dead” then, why couldn’t he do it now? 

 First of all you must realize that there is no way to answer a question about Jesus without utilizing a Christian point of view. I wouldn’t ask a Muslim a question about Allah or Mohammed and expect them to answer without referencing the Koran.   

 When Jesus does return it will be for the battle of Armageddon (also called the Apocalypse) this will be the end of the earth as we know it. Even Jesus himself did not know when that would be, only God knows.

  Mark 13:32 (New King James Version)
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Within this same passage Jesus also said that the Gospel must first be preached to all:

Mark 13:10 (New king James Version)
 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

So from a Christian point of view the answer would be that

(1)   the time set by God has not yet come
(2)   the Gospel has not yet been preached to all nations

There are also some Christians who believe that the Apocalypse would have occurred long ago except that Jesus Christ is interceding with God on our behalf asking him to give mankind more time:
 
Romans 8:34 (New King James Version)
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

I still like to think that God loves us all, and isn't petty enough to condemn us to hell for not embracing the concept of Jesus.  That's really the bottom line right?  Accept Jesus and get in, or reject Jesus and be condemned by a petty and ruthless God that cares not about your works in life.
  Jabba

Jabba,
God does love us all, even those who reject him. All men and all women are his creation and he wants all of us to spend eternity in heaven with him.

God is not “petty” or “ruthless” But, he is righteous and he is perfect. He knows that man is a sinful creature and therefore could never be “good” enough in his own to enter into heaven.
So because he wants us in heaven with him and he knows that we aren’t “good” enough to earn our way into heaven he sent his son.

His “only” son (Jesus) came to earth and lived among mankind as a man. He lived among us as a human being even though he was the Son of God. He lived a perfect life never committing a single sin and “ALWAYS” doing the will of God.

He was then beaten and died a horrible and painful death upon a cross as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this because man could make no sacrifice himself which would be righteous enough to get into Heaven.

God raised Jesus from the dead after he spent 3 days in Hell for us. Now Jesus sits in heaven beside God pleading for us daily.

Our salvation is nothing that we can earn. It is a gift from God, a gift that Jesus paid the price for. We can either accept this gift or we can reject it. God allows us to decide for ourselves what choice we make.

Please allow me to attempt to illustrate this another way:

You’re married.

I’m going to assume that you dated your wife before you married her.

I’m also going to assume that there came a point in time that you realized that you loved her and that you wanted her to become your wife.

When you made this decision like most men you went out and bought her an engagement ring.

This ring was a gift, a token of your love for her and a symbol of the commitment that you were ready to make.

When you offered this ring to her she had the option of accepting or rejecting your gift.

This gift did come with strings attached, if she accepted your gift she was agreeing to become your wife.

No man tells a woman that it’s OK for her to keep the ring if she doesn’t agree to marry him.

Now what if she had rejected your gift?

Would your love for her have instantly evaporated?

Or would you have been hurt that she rejected your gift and rejected you but continued to love her anyway?

God still loves us even if we reject his gift (salvation) and him.

The gift of salvation is conditional if we accept it then we must also accept God as well.


To Bobbo, Alph or SE,

I realize that this is strictly a Christian point of view. But was the question was directed as such.

And BTW I very much appreciate the relative level of civility in which this thread has been conducted on every ones part.         

[3fan4life]

Ha ha ha ha ... har har har har... he he he he...  

Have another glass of kool aid, son.

Eagle, do you ever wonder why no-one on this board respects you?

It is because You DON'T respect anyone else.

Respect must be earned and you earn respect by giving respect.

Why do you feel that you must disrespect others?

I have witnessed you defending Muslims and Islam on this board, yet you feel that it is OK to disrespect a Christian simply because they are Christian.

Why is this?

You don't have to agree with a person's religion to respect them and their right to have their beliefs.

I have an extemely negative oppinion of Muslims and of Islam. And no-one will EVER convince me that I am wrong to hold these oppinions.

But I accept and honor a muslims rights to hold their beliefs and to practice their religion.

I do draw the line when they think that they have the right to kill people who don't believe the same as them.

So as long as Robert, myself or anyone else on this board is advocating for their beliefs Christian or otherwise and aren't condoning the murder of others who believe differently.

You should respect their beliefs and their right to voice them as well.

[Jabba]

Oh no.

Respect is one way with SE.

He deserves and demands it while offering none to anyone that does not share his view point.

Jabba

[Billy]

Ridicule is just one type of response to being cursed to Hell if one doesn't evangelize a particular set of beliefs. It does however put one in an awkward situation to be condemned to eternal damnation by someone. 

[Willow]

Ridicule is just one type of response to being cursed to Hell if one doesn't evangelize a particular set of beliefs. It does however put one in an awkward situation to be condemned to eternal damnation by someone.  

Respectfully splitting hairs, James, but anger is the response.  Ridicule is the tool that we use (I speak in the first person plural) when we believe the perception of our superiority has been challenged or otherwise disregarded.

My observation is that we apply ridicule when we are either unwilling or unable to operate within the realm of a mature intellect.

[Billy]

Would anger be a normal human response  of one being  condemed to damnation? As anger goes, ridicule would be on the light side of available options. Maybe the best response would be to ignore the curse . I agree with the last statement but would  substitue emotion instead of intellect.

[Willow]

I agree with the last statement but would  substitue emotion instead of intellect.

I understand your point, James.

I smiled when I read your response.  It occurs to me that more often than not, I've gotten myself into trouble when I've substituted emotion for intellect.   

[Billy]

Don't we all. I consider all my MC boards as entertainment and wish no harm. This ongoing SE vs the board may be called a antagonistic symbiosis. If the lower microbes can do it, so can we.

Now I can only hope that no one takes offense to be compared to a microbe.

[Willow]

Now I can only hope that no one takes offense to be compared to a microbe. 

Only our friends on the Yellow and Black Valks.  They consider themselves to be maxi-bees.

[Serk]

Now I can only hope that no one takes offense to be compared to a microbe. 

Only our friends on the Yellow and Black Valks.  They consider themselves to be maxi-bees.

Does that mean the garage that they park in would be called a maxi-pad?


(Sorry, had to go there...)

[f6john]

Yuks aside, the Pauline-Lukan writings including the Book of Acts was  written much in the Hellenic rhetoric device thus meant to persuade. It was written as propaganda for the groups it was read to from the 2nd Century to the present, in this case by Paul and his group. There was much competition between the early developing sects of Christianity. The Mathew -Mark writings were at odds and then there were entirely different sects such as the Gnostics. In the end the Orthodox dogma won out either by persuasion or by condemning the opposing views as heretical.

     Exactly where did you come by this information?

[Robert]

If you dont believe in something why worry? If there is no power why worry? So why ridicule? Look its only religion right? NO one is named,,do you feel condemned? Maybe someone is trying to get through otherwise it must be indigestion. I broke a mirror the other day does that mean 7 years bad luck? I really guess I should be upset Either you believe or you dont either its true or not. I am not the one that wrote the Book. If anyone has a problem with what was written please take it up with the appropriate person thanks

[Bobbo]

My only real concern with the influence of religion is when politicians and lawmakers attempt to turn their religious beliefs into laws that govern all.  I am wary of any politician who considers their religion as a major reason to run for office.  Personal religious views are fine, and can be beneficial to the person when used for self-improvement.  When people use religion to encroach on others, then it becomes a problem.

[elraque]

Ha ha ha ha ... har har har har... he he he he... 

Have another glass of kool aid, son.

Eagle, do you ever wonder why no-one on this board respects you?

It is because You DON'T respect anyone else.

Respect must be earned and you earn respect by giving respect.

Why do you feel that you must disrespect others?

I have witnessed you defending Muslims and Islam on this board, yet you feel that it is OK to disrespect a Christian simply because they are Christian.

Why is this?

You don't have to agree with a person's religion to respect them and their right to have their beliefs.

I have an extemely negative oppinion of Muslims and of Islam. And no-one will EVER convince me that I am wrong to hold these oppinions.

But I accept and honor a muslims rights to hold their beliefs and to practice their religion.

I do draw the line when they think that they have the right to kill people who don't believe the same as them.

So as long as Robert, myself or anyone else on this board is advocating for their beliefs Christian or otherwise are aren't condoning the murder of others who believe differently.

You should respect their beliefs and their right to voice them as well.

Furthermore, SE, when you posed a question that may or may not have been rhetorical (about God revealing Himself as He has done in the past), and I posted a serious answer addressing that question, your silence has been characteristically noteworthy... Maybe because I gave you a direct answer to your question, one that you weren't expecting and for which you didn't have an immediate mockery prepared?

I agree with the non-rhetorical question to which I'm responding: "Why should we, in the face of your pandemic disrespect, show even an iota of respect for you?"

[Robert]

Bobbo I agree that religion shouldn't be pushed on people but it carries a moral value that we need more of not less of. If there were more morality in our leaders maybe we wouldn't be in the mess were in. Maybe they would think twice about the responsibility of their office. If they dont feel responsible to us now what will get them to do the job and really be our champions if they dont respect God? Less values more corruption more values less corruption thats the way it works. I know that all would like each person to be a responsible caring individual without the Lord. But I have seen few like this in our government. As for the general population I have seen more people willing to do the right thing on this board than in general including you Bobbo but thats not the rule. Commitment has been a dirty word lately in all areas of life.

[elraque]

Don't we all. I consider all my MC boards as entertainment and wish no harm. This ongoing SE vs the board may be called a antagonistic symbiosis. If the lower microbes can do it, so can we.

Now I can only hope that no one takes offense to be compared to a microbe.

I just hope that the microbes aren't offended by the comparison... 

[Robert]

Because we are Christians and if we cant have strength and respect then what is our witness worth? They disrespected Jesus what can we expect. Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves Our strength is not in what they say but in who we are and who is in us. Pray for him strongly and see what happens ;sticks and stones will break my bones but their words will never hurt me.

[elraque]

My only real concern with the influence of religion is when politicians and lawmakers attempt to turn their religious beliefs into laws that govern all.  I am wary of any politician who considers their religion as a major reason to run for office.  Personal religious views are fine, and can be beneficial to the person when used for self-improvement.  When people use religion to encroach on others, then it becomes a problem.

So what law can we pass that isn't founded in some religion? "Thou shalt not murder?" (Judeo-Christian and others). "Thou Shalt not steal?" (Same). "It's okay for a muslim husband to beat his disobedient wife" (Qu'ran). "Eat no meat for all animal life is sacred." (Hindu).

Each of the above (and I can name many, many more, is considered a religious fundamental by some (usually the proponents of the religion) and an infringement by others (often considered "infidels" or those who prefer "sin" over "obedience" by the religion that offers the "commandment."

What universal foundation of morality would you propose other than "accepted" religious tenets?

[Billy]

Fact check time. To assume there was no code of conduct to govern human behavior in a society before Christianity came along is totally not true. These codes could be religious or secular in nature.  It may be noted that the birth of western democracy  is attributed to the ancient Greeks who were very far from being Christ like.  Hope this helps.

[SANDMAN5]

sticks and stones will break my bones but their words will never hurt me.

I used to agree with that statement, and it's a good way to teach children not to let
things bother them. But as an adult I agree with Proverbs 18:21. I try to be careful
with what leaves my mouth.....I don't always get it right but I keep trying.

Jesus said it's not what goes IN to a man's body that defiles him, but what comes
OUT of his mouth. Words can be a curse or a blessing.

[Robert]

The Lord gave me some clarification on that Bob as far as what comes out of our mouth. I used to say it was just a wisdom thing but then this was revealed to me and it really made me think and scared me to tell you the truth. When we get to heaven the Lord wont have to convict us of anything it will be our own words played back like a recording. If you think back on words that you have spoken it can get pretty scary. Especially the ones said to be hurtful, I cant imaging sitting or standing there listening to any word out of my mouth that wasn't good.    The scenario is someone needed help and came to me I was to busy and said something not caring then I am in front of the Lord and I am hearing what I am saying and cringing not a pretty picture. I also as much as I can dont speak words that are negative. We are created in Gods image and we do have power but how did God create the world by His word so our words do have power. But I also dont worry to much about what is spoken about or to me because if its bad I just put it under the Blood or rebuke a negative word. Thats really what I was talking about. 18:21

[big turkey]

With the tone of this as it is.

I don't care if you believe in Jesus or not.

It's a motorcycle board and usually motorcycle people as a whole don't or at least in my perspective

like to acknowledge a being above that is in judgement of us all.


A little full of themselves already to need any supreme being giving them anything to fill themselves.

So live ride love and keep on going down your merry path.

Just remember when you get to your destination, there you are and ain't no turning back.

So who thinks they know what happens after this life is over.

Well we all have theories and none of us know all the particulars, but as for me I will be looking

for my creator , with faith in my heart and nothing in hand.

Just be sure that you are right and then go ahead and

don't look back.

John Wayne said that.


Just remember somebody here told you the truth and now we are not responsible.

Why is it Jesus freaks like me and others just can't quit talking about that feller.

Makes you wonder a little bit huh.

 I mean it does not bring us fame and fortune, in fact we get derided , just like the Jesus

of the Bible did.

He fortold that as well.


But after really meeting him in faith, a certain power comes over you

to give you strength and power to overcome.

Well he told us about that power as well in his book.


Al

[Robert]

Fact check time if it had been true that our code came from the Greeks then the moral code we have even now would have been a step up. But either way unless there is a internal moral compass you can have every law on the book and still have a problem. NO written code is better than the people who live one and if you dont live one then any moral code is not going to change things. God gives us a code written on our hearts

Rom 2:14  For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15  in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
 
But without this work of the Lord then there is no moral compass and anarchy takes place because it becomes every man for himself. There is no reason to be good, kinda like corporate heads today If your conscience doesn't say that there is anything wrong then anything goes. But if you do start to take a wrong turn the Word of God and the Holy Spirit will warn you. That is called raising up a standard something we so sorely need today.

2Ti 3:2  For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
If you are a lover of self then you are not a lover of God,wife,kids, family, people or life in general. We see how cheap life really is in some kids and gang members taking life not caring not thinking how many lives are touched by one act of brutality. They have no conscience so you see a perfect example of its all about me. You can go the other direction and look at quite a few movie stars as they say what about me. As we give out of our need they give out of their abundance when they do give.

[Billy]

Always an interesting subject to explore. Anybody know the relationship between  the Code of Hammurabi that was coded in Babylon circa 1800 BCE and the ancient Jewish Mosiac law?

[Robert]

none

[elraque]

Oh no.

Respect is one way with SE.

He deserves and demands it while offering none to anyone that does not share his view point.

Jabba

Respect, like disrespect, can be earned. 'nuf said.

[elraque]

Could it be, maybe, that God gave his true religion (church?) to Adam? Cain messed things up (that whole Abel thing, ya know). And we've been trying to get back to that perfect relationship with God ever since. To the point that He even sent His Son to live among us to teach us what He had originally taught to Adam.

If that's what happened, then religion didn't "evolve" into what it is today. It "devolved" from what it was originally into what it is today.

I'm just supposin' and what-iffin' here...

[flowers]

Jabba, I'd like to share my story. Both my spouse and I, at different times, asked God to make it clear who He is and that He is real.  He did.  He enabled both of us to have our eyes opened and to fully believe and trust in Him.  The freedom, the joy, and the assurance of knowing we'll be with Him forever are the benefits that come to people who recognize that Jesus willingly died (was crucified on a cross) on our behalf and then rose back to life on the third day in order to restore a relationship between us and God (the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit).  Each of us have done things we're not proud of -- that we know aren't right.  Often, people think they must get better / do better / work their way to God.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, we must come to the point where we realize that there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- that any person can do to build a relationship with God.  God changes us and enables us to believe the truth, and then we respond because we know the truth about who Jesus is and what He has done.  Jesus is God incarnate (in the flesh).  Because no one can, on their own, have a relationship with God because we're separated from Him due to sin, Jesus died in our place.  He paid the penalty for sin on our behalf (much like paying a fine for someone in jail to get them released, even though they don't deserve it).  When He was laid in a tomb and then rose from the dead back to life on the third day, he broke the curse of "sin" (separation from God) and gives the gift of a restored relationship with God for anyone who believes AND is then willing to follow God for the rest of his/her days.  God offers us unconditional love.  He knows what we're like and loves Christians no matter what.  When He looks at us, He no longer sees our many, many faults.  When the Father sees us, He sees Jesus, His "son."  He adopts us into His family.  He loves us no matter what.  He will never leave us. 

I've seen people who are drug addicts recover miraculously.  I've known people who are healed.  I've seen people who have made a mess of their lives turn their lives around as a result of God's strength.  I've seen people in horrible circumstances have enormous love for others no matter what has happened to them.  I've seen people who've been hurt forgive because they've been forgiven. 

Is life a bowl of roses after becoming a Christian?  Absolutely not.  In fact, people who love Jesus can be persecuted, will suffer (likely more), etc.  But, the difference is we know he'll give us strength now, will never leave us, and will give us joy for all eternity. 

Are Christians perfect?  Absolutely not.  But someday, they will be.  Not on earth, but in heaven.  God has promised to continue to work in our lives to help us -- over time -- get closer to the way He wants us to be.  But we won't be fully transformed into the way we should be -- the way He wants us to be -- until we're in heaven with Him.

I hope this helps provide you with some examples.

[Robert]

Rev 3:20  'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

  How many are content to take the crumbs of what others give us, How many times do we not desire to sit and dine with Jesus that the time and life to precious to really find out who He is. To be able to sit and enjoy the refreshing that comes with His presence. As we sit and desire the deeper things of God Jesus brings us presents. They are the things God has for us that He has longed to give us. Let your desire to be in His presence and to know Him take you to where He is and let the things of the world melt away. He has gifts for you they are already there waiting, take them and see what the miracle working power of God has for you.

[flowers]

Strong Eagle, You said:
Jesus was a man.  Jesus and Buddha conveyed much the same message.  The kingdom is within...

I believe you have missed the key point if you think that Jesus and Buddha conveyed much the same message. 

Buddha, and every other religion other than Christianity, centers on man -- a person working to do good, a person doing more good than bad, a person being reincarnated to a higher or lower life, a person working in concert with others or with "the universe" to be better, a person's intentions or efforts making him a "good person," a person keeping the rules, a person trying to keep the rules, etc.

In utterly stark contrast, Jesus' message was simple. 

A person cannot look within to find the truth.  A person cannot work his or her way to God.  A person cannot "do" enough good things to come before God.  A person cannot "do" enough bad things to be too bad to be outside of God's ability to save him.  No effort of our own is sufficient. 

Instead, a person must get to the point where he or she realizes that there is nothing within him or herself that is or could ever be good enough to earn God's favor. The truth is outside of us.  The truth rests only in Jesus.  That's when people "cry out to God" and seek Him with a whole heart.  Yet, as already mentioned, we cannot come to this conclusion on our own, or this, too, would be our own effort.  Instead, faith in the Jesus is a gift from God. 

From that point on, God no longer sees our faults, regardless of what we've ever done.  What He sees is Jesus when He looks at us. 

The bottom line at the end of life will be this -- what do you believe about Jesus and what did you do with that information. 

None of us knows whether this heartbeat or breath will be our last.

[Valkernaut]

This has been very interesting reading - absolutely unconvincing - but interesting. I've wondered about it for 70+ years and am still doing so....

[SANDMAN5]

This has been very interesting reading - absolutely unconvincing - but interesting. I've wondered about it for 70+ years and am still doing so....

So you've not been convinced by "either side"? Great!! That's how it SHOULD be!!
Make your own decision.

[Robert]

I think Im safe to say that nobody here was convinced by mere words including myself. It was the asking Christ into our lives or asking for Jesus to help us that we came to believe. The stories are many but they do all have one thing in common, Jesus showed up and answered our question or helped us and revealed who He is. That is how we came to know Jesus, religion is words relationship is Jesus. This whole post has but one goal to find out who Jesus is for yourself. To take the step and ask and expect an answer. Then make your own decision, if you find He wasn't what you thought then you can always change your mind. But I dont think you will do that once you find the peace joy hope and help that only He can offer. The experiences that we have all had you can have too. What He will do for one He will do for all.

[x]

Ha ha ha ha ... har har har har... he he he he... 

Have another glass of kool aid, son.

Eagle, do you ever wonder why no-one on this board respects you?

It is because You DON'T respect anyone else.

Respect must be earned and you earn respect by giving respect.

Why do you feel that you must disrespect others?

I have witnessed you defending Muslims and Islam on this board, yet you feel that it is OK to disrespect a Christian simply because they are Christian.

Why is this?

You don't have to agree with a person's religion to respect them and their right to have their beliefs.

I have an extemely negative oppinion of Muslims and of Islam. And no-one will EVER convince me that I am wrong to hold these oppinions.

But I accept and honor a muslims rights to hold their beliefs and to practice their religion.

I do draw the line when they think that they have the right to kill people who don't believe the same as them.

So as long as Robert, myself or anyone else on this board is advocating for their beliefs Christian or otherwise are aren't condoning the murder of others who believe differently.

You should respect their beliefs and their right to voice them as well.

Why?  Robert doesn't respect my beliefs.  He thinks I am going to fry in hell if I don't believe like he does.  He thinks my beliefs are inferior to his because only his beliefs lead to "salvation".  I have no use for such claptrap.  When Robert can fully acknowledge that my belief system with respect to the One is equal to his, then we can talk about 'respect'.  Meanwhile, spare me your platitudes.

[Robert]

Eagle first you have never in all your attacks said what you believe. I dont think you understand I am not putting any thing down that anyone believes but what I have found is that when all else failed me and no one and nothing had answers Jesus has been there at every turn helped me and I do mean lent a helping hand. I try only follow what He tells me and I am devoted to Him for when I stray I dont like the results. I have been hurt,stepped on made wrong decisions, had people try to shaft me much like everyone else. I have even been in darker places where most men haven't gone and what I can say out of all of this is that Jesus has been with me delivered me protected me and shown me His power not only to me but to anyone that would accept Him even in these darkest of places. I have not seen this with any other religion or god. I am boastful not in myself for I have been proven wrong but I am boastful in the Lord who has shown me that He does indeed have power over darkness demons and even life itself. I will not go back to what has not worked when I have found what does. I know where there are lies and I know where there is waters of life. If you dont have this witness in your life then maybe what you have is not working for you. I will say this to all that would pursue Jesus, He welcomes all in but unless you hang on Him like a child hangs on his father there will be secrets you will never know and power that you will only taste. so I encourage all to press in, its well worth it and the rewards in this life and the next are beyond compare. There is nothing that He will tell you to give up that He will not replace it with something that is 10 times better. How stupid we are that dont understand the God of the universe with wonders and signs couldn't have better things for us than what we could come up with.  I dont have to put anyone or anything down but would much rather see all lifted up to be what they were created to be. To bring down and to ridicule only serves darkness I would rather dwell in the truth it will win out when laid out for all to see and let my witness of what was done for me be a seed in all mens hearts. I will take the foolish things of the world to confound the wise

[Willow]

Why?  Robert doesn't respect my beliefs.  He thinks I am going to fry in hell if I don't believe like he does.  He thinks my beliefs are inferior to his because only his beliefs lead to "salvation".  I have no use for such claptrap.  When Robert can fully acknowledge that my belief system with respect to the One is equal to his, then we can talk about 'respect'.  Meanwhile, spare me your platitudes.

Wayne, you may be mistaking validation for respect.  My understanding is that I can treat people respectfully with whom I have strong differences of opinion or viewpoint.  The respect I give, though, doesn't extend to my doubting my own beliefs or confessing that I think they have as much chance of being right as do I.

Honestly, I think the biggest challenge for most of us would be treating someone with respect whom we believe has just demonstrated that he very well may be dumber than dirt.  I'd like us all to feel the need to rise to unreasonable challenges.

I think our friend, 3Fan, may have overstated when he asked, "Why do you think no one on this board respects you?"  However, I do think that disrespect generally breeds more disrespect.