THE DREADED SATANIC HYDROLOCK

[rodeo1]

o.k.

once again, like the oil question, the dreaded hydrolock thing is back. lets try and gain some perspective here. we have the #1 finest machine honda or anyone else has created. sometimes a few people have a certain problem and it gets the forums going in a circle till people who love their bike become afraid to start it. i am on my 2cd valk, as is my kid brother. he put well over 100,000 on his first one, sold it and bought an 03 that now has 50,000 on it, i put 89,000 on my first one and have 29,000 on this one and neither of us has ever had a petcock problem, hydrolock, bad bearings, rusted final drives, or loose u-joints.

so i'm gonna ask the question no one else seems to want to ask. there are thousands of folks using this forum.

HOW MANY HAVE ACTUALLY HAD A CASE OF HYDROLOCK CAUSED BY THE PETCOCK ???

be honest now, because just like fords bad tranny problem. the internrt has literally hundreds of comlaints on it,  OUT OF MILLIONS PRODUCED !!

lets see if this is a real problem or a scary boogy man !

[98valk]

see my previous post/s and the link to the honda service bulletin.
the rear carb support frame has two holes in it for the carb bowl vent lines to be installed in. factory service manual  in some pics do not show them installed in these holes. my bikes vent hoses are installed in the holes from the factory.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,22852.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,5046.0.html

[valkyriemc]

There are two issues, failure of the petcock generally and also possible hydrolock, the former may be a pre_cusor to the later. I've been through two OEM's, the original and a replacement. Should I gamble on a third? Nota. The first, a p/c leaking gas in 2005. The second in 2011, The symptom was running out of gas, when the tank on my I/S had fuel. I didn't drink the "kool aid", I'm reacting to a problem that presented itself. And its now solved.

[Tropic traveler]

Had the hydrolock at 78,000 miles, no damage and I did have some warning that it might be coming. A year or so before the hydrolock the offending carb did a float stuck overflow. I managed to get that stopped {I was out on the road when it happened} but I did not address the problem like I should have.
All that being said I put a new stock petcock back in. Once I realised that there are several things that have to happen to have a hydrolock I felt comfortable going back with a stock petcock. My tank was rusty as heck, there were 78K miles & 10 years on the bike when the hydro happened. Cleaned the tank, replaced the needle & float in the bad carb, did a complete carb clean job, & added an in-line fuel filter along with the new petcock & screen.
Actually the PRIMARY cause of the hydrolock was the needle & seat sticking in one carb. My personal opinion is a hydrolock is possible without petcock failure but much more likely to happen with a non functioning petcock. Checking to see if your stock Valk petcock is working properly should be part of a routine of things like checking coolant & rear gear lube. It's easy to do. Our Valks are getting some years on them & will require a bit more attenion than a new shiny ride would.
Such is the price of riding the best Cruiser/Tourer ever made! 

[Red Diamond]

There are some people you just can't sneeze around. If you are in room with a lot of them, everybody gets sick. This is a very large room.

[rodeo1]

o.k. so we are up to 88 people have read theis and so far only one that actually had it happen.

those of you that seem to be freaking out over hydrolock, keep checking this post. i know i will.

[Tropic traveler]

I hear what you are saying rodeo.
I have no fear of the stock petcock, actually tried a car tire & don't like it, and I feel that poking fun at Harley riders & their bikes is OK on a Valk forum.  
So I guess I'm a real heretic around here!  

Probably my worst thought is I don't really have a strong preference of oil or tire brand either!!!  

INFIDEL!!!!!!!

[rodeo1]

138 this morning, still only one.

tropic traveler, i know of what you speak. i just hate to see folks with a good bike worrying themselves sick the thing is gonna break down. while it is possible to hydrolock an engine, it is uncommon. i woud guess if we could get an accurate account we would find that approx. i% have ever had the problem.

dirty carbs and stuck needle and seats are what causes this problem, proper maintainance is what beats it. if i were going to do any changes over what honda engineers felt was best it might be a filter, but then there is one in the tank that honda engineers felt was adequate.

now i don't agree about the car tires, mine has one on both sides, (roadsmith trike) but would i put one on the back of a two wheeler, nope ! but i wouldn't put a bike tire on my mustang either, but that is everyones right to do if they feel it nessesary.

what we must watch is not getting folks that might be a bit mechanicaly challenged to worrying about this bike. change your oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles, change all fluids every year, keep good tires on her, and ride, ride, ride. and keep them harley jokes coming.

its sort of like all the hype on t.v. nowdays about identity theft. they all want to sell you protection from the dreaded identity crooks, but do you know of anyone who has actually had their identity stolen ?

[MacDragon]

138 this morning, still only one.

tropic traveler, i know of what you speak. i just hate to see folks with a good bike worrying themselves sick the thing is gonna break down. while it is possible to hydrolock an engine, it is uncommon. i woud guess if we could get an accurate account we would find that approx. i% have ever had the problem.

dirty carbs and stuck needle and seats are what causes this problem, proper maintainance is what beats it. if i were going to do any changes over what honda engineers felt was best it might be a filter, but then there is one in the tank that honda engineers felt was adequate.

 what we must watch is not getting folks that might be a bit mechanicaly challenged to worrying about this bike. change your oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles, change all fluids every year, keep good tires on her, and ride, ride, ride. and keep them harley jokes coming.

its sort of like all the hype on t.v. nowdays about identity theft. they all want to sell you protection from the dreaded identity crooks, but do you know of anyone who has actually had their identity stolen ?

I hear what you're saying about the Hydrolock... I'm not worried about it, however, I do have a certain amount of concern.  Preventative measures will put most at ease...As far as knowing someone who has had their identity stolen... I am a Finance Manager and check credit for around 130 people per month... of which 1-3 of those have had Identity theft to some level.  Anywhere from the local store personnel mis-using the card info long after the sale... to full blown hacker... sell info overseas and take everything they can until detected.  Sure happens more than Hydrolock.

[Patrick]

Well now you're up to 2.. I had 1 quite a few years ago, about 10 or 11..  So I installed a Pingle and a filter.. How many Valks have been made, 12K or 16K, or some such number and there have been maybe a dozen reports of fuel-lock over the years.. So the number is low,but, it does happen, and when it happens to you it is of some concern.. Its going to be hard to figure out just how many have had this problem because some Valk owners are not members of this board and previous board members are now gone.. The problems with these monsters is so low that we have to talk a lot about the few problems that do arise..

[9Ball]

Well now you're up to 2.. I had 1 quite a few years ago, about 10 or 11..  So I installed a Pingle and a filter.. How many Valks have been made, 12K or 16K, or some such number and there have been maybe a dozen reports of fuel-lock over the years.. So the number is low,but, it does happen, and when it happens to you it is of some concern.. Its going to be hard to figure out just how many have had this problem because some Valk owners are not members of this board and previous board members are now gone.. The problems with these monsters is so low that we have to talk a lot about the few problems that do arise..

I think the total production is just north of 45,000 Valkyries....

[Patrick]

It appears it is hard to figure out the total number of these critters that were built.. The numbers I now come up with range from 48,400 to 52,300.. Thats a lot more than I thought.. I hope these still become the sought-after classic I think they'll become..

[rodeo1]

i predict, (probably wishful thinkin) they will someday become the motorcycle version on the 57 chevy.

most parts have now been discontinued by honda, so maintainance items are about all thats left now. trash a rear end and you will be calling someone like me who have triked theirs and has a clean used rear end wrapped in plastic.

[Tropic traveler]

I guess maybe the moral of my story is to keep a good eye on the condition of your gas tank insides. I was a Valk newbie when I ignored my first warning shot that I had rust in tank leading to needle & seat problems but.... these bikes are getting older. 
The tank filter on the petcock was in deplorable condition when I took it apart & had been passing rust particles for God knows how long down to the carb bowls. The pic is AFTER a quick wipe with a rag.
ANY bike that has a little age on it is going to need more attention!

[rodeo1]

thats nasty !!

that carb is that way from sitting a loooong time with crap gas in it, until the gas turned to goo. you don't want to know how i know that -- oh hell, i bought a really nice low mileage 99 from a guy that got butt cancer. the parked it in the garage with 17,000 mi and a full tank of gas in it. three years later i bought it, i fought carbs till i about set fire to them before i ripped everything out boiled the life out of them and rebuilt them with ALL new parts. runs like a new one now, but you don't want to know what that wound up costing. really cruddy carbs like that one tropic traveler are a function of zero maintainance. my kid bros valk with around 150,000 had a can of seafoam poured in (a little each tank) till it was gone ,every spring and fall. then an ounce of MMO once a month the rest of the year. his fuel bowls (like mine) are squeeky clean. just a matter of maintainance.

another thing half full tanks rust. full ones don't bear that in mind come winter.

dennis

one other thing. this bike went through a half tank of gas just sitting. the petcock was left on and as the carbs evaporated the bowls kept filling back up. yet still no  hydrolock. amazing, huh ?

[rodeo1]

so far only two out of 310 readers -- so far less than 1%

[dubsider]

rodeo.. this is a great test.. I figured the issue comes from poor maintenance and care.. Flat6 baby is new to me.. 2001 with just over 30,000 miles.. not a lot but was super clean on the outside.  Since I am not a wrench, I took her to the shop today.. She will be seen by a long-term Goldwing mech in a very busy Honda shop..

I ride all year and most every day..  but I want to get another set of eyes on her and reset the maintenance schedule.. One of the things I want him to do is check for rust in the tank.. The seller I bought from, went through the carbs and I am pretty confident they are in top shape...she does run strong.  These machines need to be used.  I am fortunate that I never winterize... but ride.

On another note, I turn the fuel off every time.. It is what I learned at the MSF course, so that is good for me..

[dubsider]

then an ounce of MMO once a month the rest of the year. his fuel bowls (like mine) are squeeky clean. just a matter of maintainance.

hey Rodeo ...  whut is MMO ??

[custom1]

so far only two out of 310 readers -- so far less than 1%

Keep in mind that page views do not equal individual members. Could be the same people checking in repeatedly to see new responses. Like Me, I've probably looked at this thread three times already.  It will screw up your math.
My bike has not had Hydro as far as I know.

[Lonerbtw]

Having had the dreaded hydyolock last year in spring I have read most all of the posts on the subject . I realize that I am one of the very lucky ones and did not do any damage . I understand that TWO things must happen to have this problem. If the carbs or the valve is working proporly you will never know that you have a problem.  After 5 hours I had the carbs all cleaned and the valve rebuilt and back together. I did not understand about the lever alighment and just thought that it was stiff because of the rebuild. Got lucky again and smelt gas before starting the next day. Valve did not shut off because of the bind it was in. Let me mention here that if it was not for this fourm and the great and knoledgeble???? people here I would have junked the bike because I sure could not afford to have a dealer work on it. I do have to say that some are alot stronger on there feelings than others but I have to thank you all that have helped me along the way. I did not want a Pingle because I knew that I would forget to turn it off and there is One of the two problems back again. Back to the valve long story short it started seeping from the reveted side. Bought a Pingle and did forget to turn it off. Now have Pingle,in line filter and Dan Mark electrict shut off hooked into the coil hot wire. Turn off ignition turns off fule. Not a hard install for alot of piece of mind.

  Lonerbtw

[Bone]

dubsider MMO is Marvel Mystery Oil

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/

[Ricky-D]

I guess maybe the moral of my story is to keep a good eye on the condition of your gas tank insides. I was a Valk newbie when I ignored my first warning shot that I had rust in tank leading to needle & seat problems but.... these bikes are getting older.  
The tank filter on the petcock was in deplorable condition when I took it apart & had been passing rust particles for God knows how long down to the carb bowls. The pic is AFTER a quick wipe with a rag.
ANY bike that has a little age on it is going to need more attention!

I think you are mistaken!

None of that mass you see in the float bowl is rust as normally thought of, as in this discussion; although it is iron related to a very small degree!

If you were to remove that crud and let it dry completely you will find it will reduce in size a considerable amount.

That stuff (jelly like) is mostly fungus and mold that is able to live and reproduce due to the water content that is present in the ethanol in the gasoline. The kind of mold and fungus that can withstand the adverse conditions of living in the presence of the hydrocarbons of gasoline.

I'm not saying that rust is not a possibility, but with the screen that accompanies the gasoline petcock the (blocking size) particles of rust are not able to pass through the screen and those that are able to pass are usually able to pass through the float valve assemble and simply drop to the bottom of the float bowl to join the congealed mass of organic matter that you see in the picture thereby helping to develop the color pictured.

***

[judd]

I have a '00 Tourer with 70K on it, I never turn the petcock off except for winter storage, I try to keep the tank full at all times to prevent rust and run Seafoam through it now and then as well as dumping some in for winter storage,   never Hydro locked (Yet)..................I'm thinking, could the stock petcock be worn out, causing it to fail by constantly turning it off and on.........I don't know, it's just a thought.  

[Tropic traveler]

Well fellers, having been the guy that cleaned out those carb bowls I can assure you there was a lot of rust in those bowls. Also it was not from sitting a long time either. That pic was taken in early 2008 & the bike had 78,500 miles on it. It now has 107,000. I bought it in 2006 with 57,000 miles so the previous owner did not let it sit around a bunch. I can only attribute the rust in the tank to good old Florida humidity. I have traced the history of my Valk & it has been in Florida all it's life.
My Valk was in great condition when I got it so I'm sure that it was not kept outside. The rust in the tank was the very fine variety. A good chemical cleaning & coating took care of the problem. The petcock screen was shriveled & had gaps that was allowing unfiltered fuel to the carbs for who knows how many miles.
I value my first hand knowledge in this situation more than observations made from a pic.     

[Oss]

I am pretty sure G-man had it and also DalaiLama recently had it

I had a petcock failure at Inzane the last time it was in Johnson City.  My tank is always full when I park the bike and I never turn off the fuel petcock, ever.  I do run Seafoam thru once a year or so and MMO a few ounces every month during riding season.

Bought the danmarc electric shut off maybe 4 years ago but havent put it in yet.

Try posting this thread on some of the regional boards, not everyone goes in the sandbox

[rodeo1]

na, i think we have seen what i set out to show.

like oil, tires, car tires and what soap do you use. while these forums are great and the comraderie is fun, most problems are few and far between on a valk.

they are the culmination of all the research done to perfect the goldwing, so when you say there were, say 45,000 made. well that may be true for the model bike. but the 1500 goldwing had a run of about 243 trillion copies a year (well maybe not quite that many) the motor was tweaked, and tweaked again over its 12 year run.

in 1997 i think, honda did away with the wing gearpac and put in the valkyrie pac (better stuff) the goldwing always got all the good stuff.

but the point is, there just ain't a better bike anywhere. i just have a problem with threads that go on and on and on, like the oil thread always does, there are a thousand different opinions, but the  bottom line answer is always, change oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles, if you do that you can use wal mart brand 10W40 and never have an oil related breakdown.

i too leave my petcock alone (and on) i never shut it off except to store the bike for the winter. when i do i pour a half can of seafoam in the gas, top it off full, run it about 100 miles, top it off again an add an ounce of stabill to the full tank.

i have never in all the years i have owned the valks had any problem. but then i have never had a bad bearing, i change my own tires, so never had a dry rear end gear, never changed the "elusive" o ring (or any other o ring) never adjusted valves, and only balance carbs cause i have the guages to do it.

all i meant to do here was to show the newer guys that although everyone means well, stuff like hydrolock is not common to 99% of the valks in service today. just set your mind at ease guys, your riding the best.

gone rodeo'n

[Bill S]

At 92,000 miles I had the vacuum shut off go bad and the middle carb on the left side float valve must have stuck and filled the cylinder with fuel. As soon as I hit the starter button I knew it didn't sound right. So luckily no damage. Repaired the petcock with a rebuild kit from Honda. I never shut the fuel off. I ran some seafoam through it and never have had the problem again. That was 4 years  and 59,000 miles ago (knock on wood). Using the seafoam on a more regular basis now.

[Earl in Pensacola]

Rodeo1, my '97 Tourer (which I bought new March of '97) hasn't been quite as perfect as yours has been, but close.

At 237K, I still have the original clutch, carb's have never been rebuilt and I still have the original petcock, which I DO NOT TURN OFF except when I trailer it or when I know it will be parked for more than a week at a time.  I do use Chemtool B12 approx. every 6 months, divided over 3 to 4 tanks.  I've used all of the best oils over the years and to be honest, I've never been able to actually tell any difference in sound or performance.  For the last several years (and maybe 40K miles or so) I've been using Walmarts Supertech 20/50 and a #6607 Supertech filter.  Now-a-days I change the oil and filter, then at approx. 3500 I change the filter only, then both the oil and filter at 7K.

[dalai-lama]

Just finished putting the motor back in a Valk that I purchased from a friend that hydrolocked and broke the idler gear and case today.  When putting a Pingel on the tank I had to drain the gas first.  I put the tank on my bench, connected a hose to the output and turned the stock valve on and a complete line full of gas steadily ran out of the tank with no vacuum applied.  The stock petcock did fail.

The right side exhaust had about a pint of gas in it and it looked like #1 and #5 cylinders had fuel in it.

When I dissembled the carbs they did not appear to have any crap in them and the float needles looked fine with no deformation or anything else.  I did replace them (the same float needles are used on older Honda bikes and I found them somewhere for $6 each) and also replaced all o-rings at the same time.

It went back together this afternoon and fired right up.  That was a nice feeling!

I had my I/S hydrolock but I was lucky and nothing broke and I was able to pull the sparklers and spew the gas.  I put a Pingle on that and have had no problems since and just turned 116K on it on Friday.

the dalai

[Tropic traveler]

rodeo I must agree with you again.
All the things that have gone wrong with my '97 Valk have been things that IF I had checked on them as part of routine maint. they never would have happened. As it was I bought it at 57K in great outward looking condition then proceded to ride the crap out of it. Never abused it but didn't look into things like the driveshaft splines or check for rust in the fuel system. Live & learn.  
Got my "extra" '99 Valk on the stand right now for tires & you can bet I'm pulling the pumpkin to have a good look. Gonna replace the wheel bearings just 'cause they're cheap! 49K miles on the Black 'n Silver.  

The Valk is the best!

 

[rodeo1]

atta boy TT, enjoy it !

[KTGrinnell]

I had an issue with hydrolock on my '99 Tourer; which never should have happened. I'm one of those Out-West iiving guys that finds gas stations a little too far apart at times for my desire to avoid pedestrian travel, so I added that wonderful belly tank from R&M Works. Part of the install they did was to add a fuel pump that has two checks in it to prevent head pressure from the tank from pushing through to the carbs. BTW- the belly tank modification alters the petcock so that it will no longer shut off fuel, but it still allows the use of the reserve. I love that belly tank!
It was absolutely all of my fault that the thing hydrolocked. I left fuel in the tank without putting an additive in over winter. I barely had the chance to ride last year because of famliy emergencies stacking up. It was a bad combination.
I shot R&M an email and asked them what to do about it and to his credit he phoned back in about 22 seconds. Apparently, none of his customers had ever had the issue.
I pulled the spark plugs to pump the fuel out of the cylinders and put them back and fired it up with a little bit of Seafoam in the tank. Fellas, that stuff is magic. I ran the bike for only about ten minutes at an idle and then shut it off until the next day. I pulled the plugs again and there was no more hydrolock. That was about 1000 miles ago and its never been an issue since.
I ended up running a full can of Seafoam through the tank over the course of a couple of fill-ups. The bike runs like a scalded cat again. I was so impressed that I ended up dumping it into every gas tank I own.
I must be lucky; I also had the splines strip off of my drive shaft when I was in Bug-spit, Idaho about three years ago. Fortunately, my vacation was over and I was heading home so it was only an inconvenience. One of the saddest things I've ever seen is my Valkyrie strapped onto the back of a towtruck and getting passed by a Harley. It's supposed to be the other way around, isn't it? It always has been.

[dubsider]

Flat6 Baby is in the shop having some routine stuff done to her  (she is new to me for a month, and not being a wrench, I want to get another set of eyes on her).... SO, my trusted mechanic is a Honda Veteran and one of the regions top GoldWing guys..  He knows of HydroLock but states that it is RARE for these models.. said you can't break these things with a sledgehammer. I like that. In cases that he is aware of, he says it usually happens to bikes that sit. I like that too; I ride every day, unless I am traveling on business. Of course I live in the south and it is easier to ride year 'round for sure, but it does get down to the 20s - I am still riding.

I would think when there are discussion of HydroLock, attached to the discussion should be riding habits; what was the bike doing the previous 3/6/12 months.  Certainly there may be cases that an "active" bike locks up, but I hope this is an anomaly. Our Babies were born to run.

[Patrick]

I think a fuel-lock can happen at any time.. Mine happened near the end of the riding season when I pulled the bike into the garage for a quick cleaning after a fairly long ride.. The fuel valve was shut off.. After 15-20 minutes I tried to start it and heard the dreaded ' CLANK '.. I Pulled all the sparklers and gave the button a push and promptly sprayed fuel across the shop.. I Immediately ordered a Pingle and installed a filter and have not looked back, nor, have had another problem..  I still take my precautions whenever I try to start it though.. I've  always used Sea-Foam in all my junk long before I bought the Valk.. Just my thoughts, doesn't mean much..

[rodeo1]

so, what kind of oil do you use ?

[Patrick]

Huummm,, oil.. That must have been it.. I think at that time I was using Mobil 1,, had to have been the cause..   

[rogerthat]

Add me to the hydrolock list.  Noticed that the petcock leaked gas out the weep holes when I had it all apart.  Replaced it with a Pingel.

[rodeo1]

yup ! i knew it !

[Bigun]

Wow my first post and all. I bought a 99 Valk Interstate 3 months ago, 37,000 miles on it and tons of aftermarket parts, I was in love at first sight. Started having problems right away with fuel smells in the garage so I ordered a rebuild kit for the petcock after lurking on this forum. The day I was ready to rebuild it I went out to the bike and was going to run to the local parts store as they had techron on sale 2 for $8 turned the key hit the starter and heard an awfull grinding/crunch you guessed it Hydro lock and not an easy one, my starter gear shed a few teeth, the reduction gear next to it is in way worse shape and the case section that holds the reduction gear pin broke. I'm looking for parts so anyone that knows of a used parts house that carries the gears and rear case please let me know. I paid top dollar for this beast and love it but cant afford to have the Honda dealer fix her, they said they would help with parts and labor, they left the bowls on the carbs full last winter in their shop and I'm sure that had something to do with this mess.

[X Ring]

Wow my first post and all. I bought a 99 Valk Interstate 3 months ago, 37,000 miles on it and tons of aftermarket parts, I was in love at first sight. Started having problems right away with fuel smells in the garage so I ordered a rebuild kit for the petcock after lurking on this forum. The day I was ready to rebuild it I went out to the bike and was going to run to the local parts store as they had techron on sale 2 for $8 turned the key hit the starter and heard an awfull grinding/crunch you guessed it Hydro lock and not an easy one, my starter gear shed a few teeth, the reduction gear next to it is in way worse shape and the case section that holds the reduction gear pin broke. I'm looking for parts so anyone that knows of a used parts house that carries the gears and rear case please let me know. I paid top dollar for this beast and love it but cant afford to have the Honda dealer fix her, they said they would help with parts and labor, they left the bowls on the carbs full last winter in their shop and I'm sure that had something to do with this mess.

Congrats Bigun!!!    Welcome to the club and the insanity!    

Now on to your Hydrolock.  If you've done any reading on this board then you are aware there are a couple of ways hydrolock happens.  Both involve a leaking petcock and it doesn't matter whether you turned it off or not.  From there either fuel flows down the petcock's vacuum line to cylinder 6 and fills it or the other way is fuel flows down the fuel line to all the cylinders.  From there it takes a float to be stuck allowing fuel to flow through and into that cylinder.

That being said, yeah the dealer could have contributed to it and the float sticks because of it but it wouldn't have caused the leaking petcock.

You are going to need to either rebuild the stock petcock, replace it with a new Honda petcock or my choice, buy an aftermarket petcock.  I replaced the petcocks on both of my Valks with Pingles.  I bought mine from Eastern Performance.  If you do buy a Pingle, I wouldn't worry about the lower reserve.  Your I/S has a fuel gauge and flashes when you need fuel before you hit the reserve on the petcock.

As far as gears and the rear case, you might try Pinwall.  They are a motorcycle salvage yard in Ohio.  They list parts on ebay all the time.  Go check them out and if you can't find what you need in the listings, give them a call.  Their number is on the listings.

If you don't have one already, buy the Honda Shop Manual and also download it from http://valkyrienorway.com/.  I keep the paper version in the den for reading then print the pages from the downloaded version to use while working on my Valks.

Good Luck.  We're here for you.  

Marty