The results of this poll disgust me.

[..]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshot.htm?section=M

I'm disgusted that there are enough Americans who feel that a sick day is to be used when NOT sick.

[old2soon]

Nothing to back this up but have heard some outfits will buy unused sick days back IF you don't use any. I'm with you-if ya ain't sick-go to work. RIDE SAFE.

[The Anvil]

Disgusted, really? Oh for god's sake, get over it. Many companies don't even offer "sick" days anymore. They just roll them into all purpose personal days to be used as the employee sees fit. Companies have done away with benefit after benefit to the point where we're going to be working in sweatshops again. People just see it as a way to get back a tiny bit of what they've lost over the years and I don't blame them.

[..]

Disgusted, really? Oh for god's sake, get over it. Many companies don't even offer "sick" days anymore. They just roll them into all purpose personal days to be used as the employee sees fit. Companies have done away with benefit after benefit to the point where we're going to be working in sweatshops again. People just see it as a way to get back a tiny bit of what they've lost over the years and I don't blame them.

Speaks volumes about your ethics.

[The Anvil]

Disgusted, really? Oh for god's sake, get over it. Many companies don't even offer "sick" days anymore. They just roll them into all purpose personal days to be used as the employee sees fit. Companies have done away with benefit after benefit to the point where we're going to be working in sweatshops again. People just see it as a way to get back a tiny bit of what they've lost over the years and I don't blame them.

Speaks volumes about your ethics.

Don't give me that horseshit. I could just as easily say that it speaks volumes about your values when you're clearly on the side of the corporations that have been trying to screw over the American worker for the past, well... forever. But the answer isn't necessarily that simple, though you may be.

Even companies are recognizing that days off needed for personal reasons are days off needed for personal reasons and differentiating is silly. When I worked for GE we had a female employee who's six year old son would up in the hospital with an infection. She used up all of her vacation AND personal time and ran up against the sick time wall. Our branch manager approved her use of sick time (even though she wasn't herself sick, the unethical cow!) but Forth Myers (HQ) gave her a hard time about paying her for it. So why should people feel so much loyalty towards corporations that show absolutely ZERO loyalty to them?

Now General Dynamics on the other hand is a terrific company to work for. Sure, they still took away pensions but for the most part they take very good care of their people and it shows in the loyalty they return to the company. But they are NOT the rule but rather the exception.

[..]

Disgusted, really? Oh for god's sake, get over it. Many companies don't even offer "sick" days anymore. They just roll them into all purpose personal days to be used as the employee sees fit. Companies have done away with benefit after benefit to the point where we're going to be working in sweatshops again. People just see it as a way to get back a tiny bit of what they've lost over the years and I don't blame them.

Speaks volumes about your ethics.

Don't give me that horseshit. I could just as easily say that it speaks volumes about your values when you're clearly on the side of the corporations that have been trying to screw over the American worker for the past, well... forever. But the answer isn't necessarily that simple, though you may be.

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

[alph]

i wish that the company i work for would offer no-pay time off, or some way of taking off without having to use vacation time.  i've gotten the financial stubility part of my life secure, now i need the time to enjoy it a little!!  if i use up all my vacation time, and then i get sick, i get repremanded.

[The Anvil]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. 

[solo1]

The company that I worked for,without warning,stopped accumulation of sick leave.  It was changed to a maximum of 2 weeks.  There was a lot of abuse on the part of workers..  Corporations DO have the right to do as they want with furnished benefits.

I'm with Britman on this in more ways than one.

[The Anvil]

The company that I worked for,without warning,stopped accumulation of sick leave.  It was changed to a maximum of 2 weeks.  There was a lot of abuse on the part of workers..  Corporations DO have the right to do as they want with furnished benefits.

I'm with Britman on this in more ways than one.

Maximum of two weeks of what? Total time away including vacation/sick/personal all rolled into one?

[hubcapsc]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

There's a button you can mash that makes select people's posts not show up. I've been
using computer forums since the early 80's (usenet back then) and have never set up
a "kill file"... but I did it the other day for a certain VRCC user, and it has been really great.
You can see that the certain user has submitted numerous posts to whatever thread you
are reading, which I thought would be kind of annoying, but in practice, there's a pleasant
feeling of relief knowing that the post is there, but you're not seeing it.

-Mike

[solo1]

Anvil, since we were talking about sick time, I assumed that everyone would know that.  Two weeks SICK LEAVE, got it?

I'm going to take Hubcaps advice.

Solo1 out is out of here.

[Jack]

At least my employer lets us use vacation days for sick days.  Max vacation is 10 work days/year.

[The Anvil]

Anvil, since we were talking about sick time, I assumed that everyone would know that.  Two weeks SICK LEAVE, got it?

I'm going to take Hubcaps advice.

Solo1 out is out of here.

I asked a question and you answered. Why are you getting so pissy???

[Valker]

Sorry for this slight hijack, Britman, but just yesterday I started with the 'ignore' feature...it's GREAT!

[The Anvil]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

You really don't see the irony in that remark after: "Speaks volumes about your ethics." You really don't?

[bscrive]

I work for the federal gov't in Canada.  We get a lot of vacation and sick leave as well as a week of family related leave.  We accumulate our sick leave if we do not use it.  Some people like myself rarely call in sick.  Have I done so when I was not sick, you bet.  I work with some people who have been there longer than me an have almost no sick leave left.  We do not get paid for our unused sick time when we retire.  The reason I take a sick day here and there is because when I first started with the gov't over 18 years ago I never took a sick day in 5 years.  Then I had to take a couple days off sick and all I heard for weeks after was 'Hey I heard you took a couple of sick days'.  Since then I always take a couple days off each year even if I am not sick.  I call them mental health days or I tell people my anal glaucoma was acting up (can't see my a$$ coming into work).  I currently have over 9 months of sick leave accumulated, I will probably never use it up.  I don't begrudge people who use theirs, that is up to them.  

[ricoman]

Disgusted, really? Oh for god's sake, get over it. Many companies don't even offer "sick" days anymore. They just roll them into all purpose personal days to be used as the employee sees fit. Companies have done away with benefit after benefit to the point where we're going to be working in sweatshops again. People just see it as a way to get back a tiny bit of what they've lost over the years and I don't blame them.

Let me see, being paid while sick and not working, is something you deserve rather than accept and be grateful for?
Or sick days being taken and you are not sick but "deserve" the day off. An honest days work for an honest days pay-that's seems fair. A day off with pay when you are sick seems like a benefit-not to be abused.
What exactly have people "lost over the years'? They have shorter hours, better working conditions, and more paid vacation than ever. What they have lost is the committment to do a job with pride. Instead, they have grown to "expect".
You work-you get paid for it. You don't work and get paid for it because you are "entitled" to it? Does that seem right?
I think you'll find that paid sick days were originally thought to be a benefit.
Why should a company be expected to become your new parents and take care of you, wipe your nose/butt, feed you and on and on?
The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

[Jabba]

I get vacation time... and "sick" time.

I use some "sick" time, but as I work for a VERY small firm, it's no secret then I uses a "sick" day when I am not. 

I have a GREAT relationship with my employer, and will never screw him over.  He lets me take unpaid time off anytime I want.  Or use comp time with overtime I use.  Or take the OT pay, or essentially whatever I want.

That goes a LONG way toward retaining me over the 11 years I have worked here.  I could make more dough elsewhere, but nowhere else could I have the freedom I have here.  As long as I get all my stuff done, the Ol',man lets me do whatever I want.

That, to me, is priceless.

Jabba

[sugerbear]

my wife's employer requires 4 days vacation BEFORE sick time kicks in.
if your sick for 5 days=4 days vacation time 1 day sick time.

[The Anvil]

The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

No it's not. Is it A reason? Maybe. But it's not THE reason. If you really think that workers are hosing companies then there's no helping you.

[bigvalkriefan]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

There's a button you can mash that makes select people's posts not show up. I've been
using computer forums since the early 80's (usenet back then) and have never set up
a "kill file"... but I did it the other day for a certain VRCC user, and it has been really great.
You can see that the certain user has submitted numerous posts to whatever thread you
are reading, which I thought would be kind of annoying, but in practice, there's a pleasant
feeling of relief knowing that the post is there, but you're not seeing it.

-Mike

Thanks Mike, As of now I'm using that feature. As of late there has been some really annoying asses on this forum. Respond away Anvil, I won't see it. Life is to short to deal with your kind.

[Hoser]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

There's a button you can mash that makes select people's posts not show up. I've been
using computer forums since the early 80's (usenet back then) and have never set up
a "kill file"... but I did it the other day for a certain VRCC user, and it has been really great.
You can see that the certain user has submitted numerous posts to whatever thread you
are reading, which I thought would be kind of annoying, but in practice, there's a pleasant
feeling of relief knowing that the post is there, but you're not seeing it.

-Mike

Tell me more about that button, PM if you want.  Hoser

[Serk]

YOU don't know anything about me you assumptive ass.

There's a button you can mash that makes select people's posts not show up. I've been
using computer forums since the early 80's (usenet back then) and have never set up
a "kill file"... but I did it the other day for a certain VRCC user, and it has been really great.
You can see that the certain user has submitted numerous posts to whatever thread you
are reading, which I thought would be kind of annoying, but in practice, there's a pleasant
feeling of relief knowing that the post is there, but you're not seeing it.

-Mike

Tell me more about that button, PM if you want.  Hoser

I did a short writeup of how to use it here - http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,31292.0.html

[ricoman]

The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

No it's not. Is it A reason? Maybe. But it's not THE reason. If you really think that workers are hosing companies then there's no helping you.

Did not say that, at all.
Re-read, my point is/was, we have grown to "expect", rather than "earn". 

[The Anvil]

The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

No it's not. Is it A reason? Maybe. But it's not THE reason. If you really think that workers are hosing companies then there's no helping you.

Did not say that, at all.
Re-read, my point is/was, we have grown to "expect", rather than "earn". 

Okay, well as long as you're including industry in the "we" then we're in at least partial agreement. Employers have come to "expect" loyalty from employees without either earning it or returning it in kind.

But it's still not THE reason why we're going down economically. There are a lot of reasons for that.

[Jabba]

But it's still not THE reason why we're going down economically. There are a lot of reasons for that.

Unions, welfare, Liberals in general...

Mind you I am NOT a Republican.  They are too liberal for me too.  Fiscally at least.

Jabba

[bigvalkriefan]

But it's still not THE reason why we're going down economically. There are a lot of reasons for that.

Unions, welfare, Liberals in general...

Mind you I am NOT a Republican.  They are too liberal for me too.  Fiscally at least.

Jabba

Agreed Jabba, Unions, Welfare to the people scamming us, Liberals and the entitlement attitude society has now is killing us. The government is more than happy to accommodate them, the more that depend on the Government the better it is for them, more people to vote and keep them in power.
WE HAVE BEEN PUT INTO A COLD POT OF WATER AND THEY HAVE TURNED THE BURNER ON, IT'S STARTING TO GET REALLY WARM, IT WILL BE BOILING SOON. YOU LIBERAL FOOLS WHO CAN'T SEE IT NEED TO TAKE THE BLINDERS OFF.

[The Anvil]

But it's still not THE reason why we're going down economically. There are a lot of reasons for that.

Unions, welfare, Liberals in general...

Mind you I am NOT a Republican.  They are too liberal for me too.  Fiscally at least.

Jabba

Add "conservatives" to that list as well. Face it; the extreme factions of of either are dangerous.

[bigvalkriefan]

"You are ignoring this user. Show me the post."

I'm really liking this ignore feature!  

[The Anvil]

"You are ignoring this user. Show me the post."

I'm really liking this ignore feature!  

Because you're gutless. But then, you won't see this anyway

[..]

Woo hoo

I'm all for dialog. When it comes to a monologue that immediately icludes personal attacks I'm really not interested

Now I'm a b s free

Woo hoo

[Chattanooga Mark]

Anvil,

     I think many businesses would rather not have long term employees in most of their positions. My job, your job etc. are worth a certain dollar range of total compensation. Whether you do it for 6 months, 6 years or 26 years. Many, certainly not all, employees get toped out and then end up getting overpaid for a particular job over time. That ends up hurting the company and the employee. This a=effects many union and factory type jobs. The days of working for one, two or even three employers over your career are sadly, all but gone.

All the best,

Mark

PS - I haven't thought about placing you on an ignore list but the weak bird, the boob and the W guy are sure prospects. I don't currently even have an ignore list. 

 

[bigvalkriefan]

Blah Blah Blah Blah its like a Charlie Brown cartoon when the teacher talks. I REALLY REALLY like this ignore feature.
Attack on heathen.   I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
This is fun.  

[Jabba]

Add "conservatives" to that list as well. Face it; the extreme factions of of either are dangerous.

Anvil, I won't ignore you.  I appreciate the diversity of opinion, even when we disagree.

I am not a fan of "Conservative" social agenda.  I am a Libertarian.  and I mean it.

I simply disagree with Liberal economics.  I believe there will ALWAYS be poor people.  If you float the lowest level of your society, it does nothing but bring the rest down.  Our poor are RICH by world standards, yet we HAVE to keep doing more and more and more.  

The world is an unfair place.   We're not all equally talented or able.  We should not be equally compensated.  I believe that the motivated people, SHOULD reap the benefits of it.  I believe that people that bring skills that are in demand SHOULD be able to negotiate their compensation.  Conversely,  I believe that employers should be free to hire someone else who brings the same talent, yet demands less compensation.  read into this... shipping manufacturing jobs overseas. If we want those jobs... we should bring something to the table that they do not over there.  Essentially, be more valuable here than there.  However that happens.

As far as welfare is concerned... I think we should have dormitories, and soup kitchens instead of welfare checks and food stamps.  Maybe, MAYBE, allow distribution of government supplemented food thru food banks.  I am NOT a fan of seeing people use food stamps in line at the grocery that have fancy cars, cell phones, and manicures.  Yes I have seen all three.  

Being on welfare should be uncomfortable, and demeaning.  It SHOULD motivate you to get off it.  What we have now does not.

I think that 3rd party payers for healthcare is the root of the whole mess.  when that happened, the whole system started to spiral downward.

I am a FairTax supporter.

I am sort of a Hawk compared to other Libertarians.  I'd love to live and let live... but they are not going to allow that.  So... we got to croak them, before they croak us.  Unfortunate, but a FACT about mankind.

Jabba  

[Rams]

The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

No it's not. Is it A reason? Maybe. But it's not THE reason. If you really think that workers are hosing companies then there's no helping you.

If you really think many employees don't hose their employers there's no helping you either.  

Unfortunately, employers are required to treat everyone equally.  That means the good folks get screwed because of the bad ones.  Having been on both sides of this issue, I realize just how important culling out the bad ones is to everyone concerned.

[The Anvil]

Anvil,

     I think many businesses would rather not have long term employees in most of their positions. My job, your job etc. are worth a certain dollar range of total compensation. Whether you do it for 6 months, 6 years or 26 years. Many, certainly not all, employees get toped out and then end up getting overpaid for a particular job over time. That ends up hurting the company and the employee. This a=effects many union and factory type jobs. The days of working for one, two or even three employers over your career are sadly, all but gone.

Yup. It's sad but true.

You can also see it in the way employers utilize contract employees rather than hiring permanent employees. GE did it when I was there. We were hired on for a year as contract employees, then at the end of the year we were taken on as permanent. Of course 11 months and three weeks into our first year as permanent employees we were all sacked, right before being vested. Then they hired some of us back as guess what; contract employees. C**ksuckers.

Even General Dynamics (at leas the Aviation Services division, now just called Gulfstream) typically hires new mechanics on a contract to permanent basis. But they don't yank contractors around. If they like you they take you on and keep you. I know quite a few guys who've been working there for 10-20 years.

And check this out; my wife's been working for CVS for 15 years, spent her who career there. You know what you get as a bonus for a 15 year career? A 100 dollar digital camera and compared to what a lot of people get that's pretty cursed good!  

[The Anvil]

The attitude that we "deserve" or are "entitled to" more, without expending effort to "earn" it is why we are going downhill economically.

No it's not. Is it A reason? Maybe. But it's not THE reason. If you really think that workers are hosing companies then there's no helping you.

If you really think many employees don't hose their employers there's no helping you either.  

Unfortunately, employers are required to treat everyone equally.  That means the good folks get screwed because of the bad ones.  Having been on both sides of this issue, I realize just how important culling out the bad ones is to everyone concerned.

I didn't say that. But as a general rule I think employers are more to blame for the level of mistrust that exists between them.

[MrArn]

Was going to send this as a PM, but decided to post it instead.

Thank you Anvil

This thread was started with a rant.
"I'm disgusted that there are enough Americans who feel that a sick day is to be used when NOT sick."

You took issue with the statement and posted your disagreement. While we don't agree in many areas, I support your right to express your views. I'll not be censoring your posts in the future, instead will be looking forward to seeing your view point.

On this subject I think you'll find that most employers are small companies not large one. The majority of people employed don't get paid if they don't work, paid sick days are a benefit. Benefits are offered to attract or keep employees, how they are applied is agreed upon by both parties. That makes the rant that started this thread unsound.

In my mind the employee--employer relationship is a partnership. Deception by ether side causes both harm in the long run.

[The Anvil]

Anvil, I won't ignore you.  I appreciate the diversity of opinion, even when we disagree.

I appreciate that. And likewise, I have no ignore list myself. I strongly disagree with many here quite often and frequently shake my head. But they're entitled to their opinion. If I don't like it then I can argue against it, but if they go through the trouble to write it out then it at least deserves to be read. That's my opinion on it anyway.