Why the animosity toward Harley Products

[F6Mark]

If I may:
<<images that come to mind when I think of a Harley:
cheap beer:  what- you prefer some green bottle import?   
truck stops:you look down your nose at truck stops?
bad country music:it goes pretty well with the cheap beer
tattoos up one arm and down the other:you don't believe in individual expression?  Have you ever made your distaste for tattoos know to any of the tattoo-wearers?color]leather wallet on a chain:  you are easily irritated I see.
German W.W.II helmet with the spike on top:  my opinion is if anybody has the balls to ride a harley wearing one of these- right on and more power to them.
murals on the tank:  lots of valks with murals
Grim Reaper:  hey it's tradition
uncut beard:  nobody with a uncut beard gives a $hit if you like or dislike it
Hell's Angels:  Did your dad tell you scary stories about HA's when you were a kid?
Nazis:to the extent any harley rider (or any person) supports nazism, that is not to be commended.  But I don't personally equate harleys with nazis, and have never seen a swaztika worn by a biker I don't think.  But I have never really seen a whole lot of outlaw bikers.
smoke filled bars:  that's where I feel most at home, as opposed to some frikkin fern bar.
knife hidden in the boot:  sounds like all american "be prepared" attitude
American flag bandanna instead of a helmet:  you don't appreciate a citizens patriotism, because he rides a harley?
tassels: if you're referring to "fringe" I agree it's kind of flamboyant, but an awful lot of valk riders do the same thing.
Tassels are the things that topless dancers attach to their nipples to attract dollar bills from drunk harley (and valk) riders sitting in topless bars.   
wannabe riders:I'm not sure how it is you are able to sit back and gaze on every biker and biker ride by and make all sorts of determinations about those people that you know nothing about.
Everything that motorcycles are not supposed to stand for.>>
For me personally, motorcycles don't "stand for" anything other than what you dream up in your mind.
You may be familiar with the theory discussed in many motorcycle forums which states that the larger and more massive a persons motorcycle is, the smaller that MC riders penis may be?  Hopefully you understand the concept- it's not a theory that I subscribe to by virtue of personal experience but others results may vary... I only mention it because you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about bikes and their riders and you should know people out there may be looking at you riding that big ol machine and wondering about your motivations in doing so.
I'm just sayin-

[Chrisj CMA]

I think the biggest factor is PERSONAL PREFERENCE.  If you like Harleys you like Harleys.  Why should anyone get annoyed at another person's personal preference........childish. 

Now what I have been sensitive to lately and as hard as I can try to NOT link this to the Harley crowd it seems to mostly apply to Harley riders and other Riders (metric look alikes) that hang with and try to be like Harley riders (shared mentality) 

And that is.....the notion that it is wrong or somehow unsafe to use the front brake.  I have been observing many riders....usually from the safety of the passenger seat of our truck when Judy is driving, and hands down the overwhelming majority of the time that I see a rider try to stop using only the back brake it is a Harley and a few time a pack of bikes most all of them doing it the same way which included some rice burners harley look alikes.

So, for me anyway, my beef is that it just seems to me that there is an anti establishment (establishment being the motorcycle safety world) that people that DRIVE Harleys feel they are too cool to pay attention to. 

I ride with the Patriot Guards.......the only down side to this particular group for me is that it attracts many riders that at no other time practice or ever ride in formation (group riding) and then they are expected to ride safely in a tight formation.  Again for some reason, I rarely have have a concern with a Goldwing or other metric cruiser.  But the Harley crowd, if they never rode in a group are scary......

I know its an over generalization, but I have enough first hand observations so that I believe its only a slight over generalization....There are many many safe Harley riders, and I ride with lots and have no problem, lots of fun.  But when the fun stops because someone is being unsafe its a guy on a HD more times than not...BTW I said guy.......the female HD riders have seemed to find a way to go to safety classes and use proper technique more often than the guys it seems  (to me anyway)

[The Anvil]

The front brake thing is not limited only to H-D riders. It's really a generational thing. There's a misconception among older generations that the front brake will "put you over the handlebars". This may be rooted in fact since drum brakes can be very grabby and hard to modulate but I know lots of riders (usually in their 50's) who never touch the front brakes.

[Chrisj CMA]

The front brake thing is not limited only to H-D riders. It's really a generational thing. There's a misconception among older generations that the front brake will "put you over the handlebars". This may be rooted in fact since drum brakes can be very grabby and hard to modulate but I know lots of riders (usually in their 50's) who never touch the front brakes.

So 50's s OLD HUH....IM over 50, and I use the front brake....(just kidding about the age thing).......I see your point, maybe its that thre are more HD riders that got their license before passing a safety test was mandatory.  In that case youd have to be a certain age to have been riding before the MSF was a big deal.

I saw a guy yesterday in fact.  I was on the Valk stopped, waiting for a spot to pull out into traffic.  A guy.....60's maybe (white beard) No, I dont think it was Santa........on a police style older Road king.  Slowing to stop at a red light.  I wasnt really "watching" him, nothing seemed odd until right before he stopped.........(thats when one finds out that the back brake really isint doing the job) he grebbed FULL ON fronts and stopped NOW on the line, he pushed forward on the bike the forkes dived and he was stopped.  I could just hear him telling a bud the next day how the front brakes almost "put him down"  Cant even count how many times I see this and its almost always a larger HD.

[Chiefy]

[fudgie]

Well said f6mark! 

Fern bar. 

[Popeye]

[/quote]

If I may:
<<images that come to mind when I think of a Harley:
cheap beer:  what- you prefer some green bottle import?  
truck stops:you look down your nose at truck stops?
bad country music:it goes pretty well with the cheap beer
tattoos up one arm and down the other:you don't believe in individual expression?  Have you ever made your distaste for tattoos know to any of the tattoo-wearers?color]leather wallet on a chain:  you are easily irritated I see.
German W.W.II helmet with the spike on top:  my opinion is if anybody has the balls to ride a harley wearing one of these- right on and more power to them.
murals on the tank:  lots of valks with murals
Grim Reaper:  hey it's tradition
uncut beard:  nobody with a uncut beard gives a $hit if you like or dislike it
Hell's Angels:  Did your dad tell you scary stories about HA's when you were a kid?
Nazis:to the extent any harley rider (or any person) supports nazism, that is not to be commended.  But I don't personally equate harleys with nazis, and have never seen a swaztika worn by a biker I don't think.  But I have never really seen a whole lot of outlaw bikers.
smoke filled bars:  that's where I feel most at home, as opposed to some frikkin fern bar.
knife hidden in the boot:  sounds like all american "be prepared" attitude
American flag bandanna instead of a helmet:  you don't appreciate a citizens patriotism, because he rides a harley?
tassels: if you're referring to "fringe" I agree it's kind of flamboyant, but an awful lot of valk riders do the same thing.
Tassels are the things that topless dancers attach to their nipples to attract dollar bills from drunk harley (and valk) riders sitting in topless bars.  
wannabe riders:I'm not sure how it is you are able to sit back and gaze on every biker and biker ride by and make all sorts of determinations about those people that you know nothing about.
Everything that motorcycles are not supposed to stand for.>>
For me personally, motorcycles don't "stand for" anything other than what you dream up in your mind.
You may be familiar with the theory discussed in many motorcycle forums which states that the larger and more massive a persons motorcycle is, the smaller that MC riders penis may be?  Hopefully you understand the concept- it's not a theory that I subscribe to by virtue of personal experience but others results may vary... I only mention it because you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about bikes and their riders and you should know people out there may be looking at you riding that big ol machine and wondering about your motivations in doing so.
I'm just sayin-

Agreed f6mark and Fudgie.  I went to a Harley and love it.  Never understood why so many
are concerned about what others ride.  As long as you like your personal bike, that's all that
matters.   There are a-holes on all brands of bikes.  Flame suit on.

[buzz]

cheap beer:  what- you prefer some green bottle import?  Not really, I don’t drink when I ride.
truck stops: you look down your nose at truck stops? Haven’t seen too many Harleys parked at the Country Clubs.
bad country music: it goes pretty well with the cheap beer.  I agree with you on that one.  
tattoos up one arm and down the other: you don't believe in individual expression?  Are you kidding me?  What individual expression can you have when there are 150 guys in the parking lot look exactly like you?
leather wallet on a chain:  you are easily irritated I see. Not at all.  
German W.W.II helmet with the spike on top:  my opinion is if anybody has the balls to ride a Harley wearing one of these- right on and more power to them.  And my opinion is that now days, a lot of them have more money than balls.
murals on the tank: lots of valks with murals.  Maybe?
Grim Reaper:  hey it's tradition.  Hummmm, OK?
uncut beard:  nobody with a uncut beard gives a $hit if you like or dislike it. I don’t give a $hit about their facial hair either.  Just pointing out that for some unknown reason it’s a must.
Hell's Angels:  Did your dad tell you scary stories about HAs when you were a kid? No, no stories.  Actually, I have a lot of respect for the HSs and other MCs (the real ones).  Not so much for the ones who think that they are when in fact they are not.    
Nazis: to the extent any harley rider (or any person) supports nazism, that is not to be commended.  But I don't personally equate harleys with nazis, and have never seen a swaztika worn by a biker I don't think.  But I have never really seen a whole lot of outlaw bikers.  I have.
smoke filled bars:  that's where I feel most at home, as opposed to some frikkin fern bar.  No comment.
knife hidden in the boot:  sounds like all american "be prepared" attitude
American flag bandanna instead of a helmet:  you don't appreciate a citizens patriotism, because he rides a harley?  I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but I believe in a different kind of motorcycle for America. I believe in a true, high performance motorcycle that is American designed, built, and ridden. I believe in more than Harley Davidson, I believe in something that Harley is missing out on.  I believe in American dominance over every other type and brand of motorcycle in the world. That is what America is all about, showing the rest of the world how it's done and then letting them play catch up.
tassels: if you're referring to "fringe" I agree it's kind of flamboyant, but an awful lot of valk riders do the same thing.  Tassels are the things that topless dancers attach to their nipples to attract dollar bills from drunk harley (and valk) riders sitting in topless bars.  Thanks, now I know the proper terminology.    
wannabe riders:  I'm not sure how it is you are able to sit back and gaze on every biker and biker ride by and make all sorts of determinations about those people that you know nothing about.  Didn’t say every biker.  I said many of them.
Everything that motorcycles are not supposed to stand for.>>
For me personally, motorcycles don't "stand for" anything other than what you dream up in your mind.
You may be familiar with the theory discussed in many motorcycle forums which states that the larger and more massive a person’s motorcycle is, the smaller that MC riders penis may be?  Hopefully you understand the concept- it's not a theory that I subscribe to by virtue of personal experience but others results may vary... I only mention it because you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about bikes and their riders and you should know people out there may be looking at you riding that big ol machine and wondering about your motivations in doing so.
I'm just sayin- Don’t know anything about that.  It must be the HD thing with the motorcycle, penises, fringes etc….  

Like I said before, in 40+ years of riding, I rode Italian, German, British, several Japanese bikes and believe it or not even a Harley.  I don’t think that the Valk is the greatest motorcycle just because I ride it at the present time.  A lot of us have probably noticed unique manners of the BMW owners/riders.  A good friend of mine owns a Moto Guzzi and we attend Guzzi rallies every year.  I observed that Guzzi owners also have distinctive sentiments when it comes to Guzzi bikes.  That’s a perfectly normal behavior.

Do I notice the same exclusive manners of the Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda owners?  I can’t say that I do. Maybe because they are more preoccupied with picking out a route they will take that day, the quality of the road surface and whether the gear they are wearing will protects them.  Maybe they don’t crave the need to be accepted, to be wanted, to be complimented and admired for what they own and how they dress.  Maybe they are unwilling to comply with a premade culture that was created by Harley, with its own rules and standards which you must accept if you are going to be a part of it.

Do I think that the Harley is a good or high quality motorcycle? I think you know my answer to that. Do I think that we can produce better quality and performance motorcycles?  You bet.  Is it going to be build by Harley?  Probably not.        

[Hoser]

The front brake thing is not limited only to H-D riders. It's really a generational thing. There's a misconception among older generations that the front brake will "put you over the handlebars". This may be rooted in fact since drum brakes can be very grabby and hard to modulate but I know lots of riders (usually in their 50's) who never touch the front brakes.

I passed the 50s a long time ago, never had to take a safety course, in fact any drivers license was legal when I started riding fifty years ago.  I found out real quick what the front brake was for when I bought a CB750 with extended forks that had no front disc, I guess for looks.  Nobody ever told me not to use a front brake, even though my 1st 2 wheeler was a Cushman scooter that did not come with a front brake.  Silly Idea not to use it on someone elses advice, anybody dumb enough to do that deserves what he gets.  Hoser 

[solo1]

Regarding front brake use, I learned in a hurry.  Just two weeks after I stuck the Whizzer engine in my Schwinn bicycle I had a drum brake installed on the front wheel (yeah, they made them).  The poor old Morrow rear coaster brake just couldn't hack the increased weight and speed. The drum front brake helped a lot.

[Quicksilver]

I think I owe Harley Davidson a big THANK YOU for creating and maintaining the motorcycle community. I've ridden my brothers HD once, It's not for me, I was quite happy switching back to my ride. On that note I didn't care for his BMW machine either. I believe my Valkyrie was built for the market Harley Davidson created and for that I'm grateful. If I hadn't ridden a goldwing and felt the difference in the comfort you get riding the horizontally opposed engine I might have got into the Harley market myself, in that I love riding period. I've never felt the sense of community from Honda that I'm sure the Harley riders have from Harley Davidson. ( Other Than the VRCC). I can only speak from my own experience and the Valkyrie was built for me.
The fear of front brake use came to me from riding bicycles. Perhaps there is a difference between bicycles and motorcycles, in any case it took me a while to get over that reluctance to use the front brake.

[The Anvil]

Actually, I have a lot of respect for the HSs and other MCs (the real ones).  Not so much for the ones who think that they are when in fact they are not.

You're a real piece of work dood. 

[BF]

I can't believe that this thread is still going strong after 4 pages. 

btw.....I like motorcycles. 

[old2soon]

Screw the rhetoric-lets ride. RIDE SAFE.

[Cruzen]

You never hear songs about Hondas. 

How about a good ol Harley Song.

http://www.myspace.com/hankrotten/music/songs/harley-in-the-rain-19261523

I like this version

THE BEACH BOYS Little HONDA.wmv	powered by Aeva

[Big IV]

Noted author and scholar, Edward Saed, developed a practical explanation for the Western concept of Orientalism. In his book, On Orientalism he discusses it in detail with historical nuggets that would N. Machiavelli happy. Luckily, if you don't want to read the non-fiction book, the main ideas have been delivered in a series of lectures that are now on YouTube.com

Orientalism Edward Saed - Part.1	powered by Aeva

In this discussion, Saed posits that every group identifies itself by relating its group identity to the concept of the "other." Westerners did this with Orientialism, judging themselves based on the perceived lack of the "other." Saed improves the understanding of the concept of stereotyping and how it works in regard to the role of the "other."

To answer the original query for this thread, "Why the animosity toward Harley Products?" I would point to Saed.  Every group identifies itself based on the other. Listening to Saed, or reading Saed, you will see the formation of general rules that tend to be true about the supposed stereotyped "other."

I apologize if this point has already been deposited in this thread. I skipped reading anything past the initial query. Threads of this type  tend to clog up with chest thumping, praises, naysayers, and other sorts without truly getting to the heart of the matter. Atleast, that is how I percieve them based on my experience. I would posit, that the absolute heart of the matter rests in Saed's concept of "Other." Understanding Saed we can understand stereotypes deeper and the role that they play.

However, sociology and linguistics can both be sciences that serve semantics when properly studied and applied. I believe that to be the case here, but I will caution that I have yet to conduct the empirical research. At the moment, I only offer this thread for consideration.

[buzz]

Said oversimplified the complex historical encounter between East and West.  From the video clip above, much of its history, according to Said, Europe either ignored Islam or regarded it as a form of Aryanism.  For centuries, long before America was discovered by Columbus, most Europeans couldn’t care less about the Middle East. They were much more concerned with demonizing rival Christian sects.  Nor did the West always hold the upper imperialist hand over the East: The European powers were fearful of the mighty Ottoman Empire for centuries.

I’m by no means a scholar or an expert in the Middle East but from what I read about Said, he was an outspoken advocate for the Palestinian cause.  In the beginning of the video clip, he stated that in the 1973 war, between Egypt and Israel, the Egyptians proved that they weren’t cowards and showed the world that they can fight.  Without taking any sides between Egypt, Palestine or Israel, in 1973 my father, a deep water wells engineer (now retired), was working as a contractor with the Israeli water department.  He brought his family along and we lived in Israel from 1972 to 1975.

I can’t say whether Egyptian soldiers were cowards or not but the reason they were able to advance so deep into the Israeli territory is because they attacked on the day of the holiest Jewish holiday Yom Kippur.  Many Israeli soldiers were permitted to go home for the holidays and the ones that stayed were too busy praying.  However, the Egypt’s dominance only lasted two or three days and by day four they were on the retreat.  By day seven, my dad was working in the Sinai desert building a well to supply water to the Egyptian third army (about 3,000 soldiers) that were surrounded by Israelis as prisoners of war.