Why the animosity toward Harley Products

[Cruzen]

I did not want to hijack another thread so I started this one.  In that other thread about a Harley racing a sport bike someone stated they were fascinated about the apparent dislike for Harley riders exhibited here.  I think that is brought about by the “look at me I’m special” attitude exhibited by Harley riders.

The question that has never been answered is why when you take a motorcycle rider and put him/her on a Harley they automatically exhibit an attitude adjustment.  And in my opinion not for the better.  An acquaintance of mine who rode a Honda Ace for many years bought a used Harley with loud pipes.  He stated he wanted to “fit in” with some of his other friends.  On our first ride together whenever we were at a stop light he was blipping the throttle.  When we got to the restaurant I asked him about it and all he could say was that it was fun.  He never did that on his Honda.

Last Saturday there were 8 bikes composed of 6 Valk's and 2 Goldwings on our breakfast ride to Yarnel Arizona.  Even though several had louder than stock exhaust systems nobody blipped the throttles at any of the stops we made nor did they find it necessary to rev like crazy when arriving or leaving the restaurant. 

Every so often we attend the Ride in at Westgate in Glendale Arizona.  There are hundreds of bikes at that show ever week.  You will see small groups of Valk’s or Goldwings gliding in and out without much more noise than the band is making.  However most, not all, but most, Harley riders find it necessary to announce their presence by revving the P… out of the engine as they enter or leave the show area.   You cannot hear the band over the noise and conversation is impossible during those displays of senseless noise.  Why is that necessary??  Who has a logical answer for that ?  Why do they have to rev when going through a tunnel.  Com on Man!!!!! Quit acting like your still in diapers.

I have been told by a friend who lived in Japan for over 20 years and continues to work with them that the Japanese wonder why Americans have such a fondness for the mechanically inferior Harley products.   She has told me that based on what communications she has had with her friends in Japan, basically Honda is giving up on trying to understand the American motorcycle buyer because it defies logic and common sense.  While Americans appreciate craftsmanship and quality in their cars and trucks and the Japanese have been able to successfully compete and produce good products to meet those demands, the same person does not have the same requirements for the motorcycles they choose to buy.   Have you ever noticed how many Harley owners have high end cars/trucks made in Germany or Japan? What is that all about?

I think there is a serious backlash against the Harley products as a whole by the traditional motorcycle community, notice I did not say biker community which is totally different, because of the superior attitude exhibited by many Harley riders.  Even my lady has noticed this attitude which she gets from some of the Harley ladies.   

As I noted once before, some years ago Sharon and I were up in Cave Creek Arizona on my Magna.  I was admiring the saddle bags on a Harley parked near us.  The owner’s lady walked up to put something in the saddle bags.  I made a complementary comment about the nice saddle bags and without saying thank you she looked up and asked what we were riding.  I pointed and said a Magna.  She smugly looked and said isn’t it about time you moved up to a Harley.  I smiled at her and said that maybe some day when I’m old and willing to slow down I will consider it but for now I prefer speed, handling and reliability.  She turned several shades of red as she tried to explain to her guy what I had just said.  My lady, Sharon, said she had interfaced with the same lady in the leather shop we visited.  As they were looking at items the Harley lady comment that the leathers being sold there might be OK for Sharon but that she would only buy items that had the Harley symbol on them.  From that statement Sharon deduced that the lady felt Harley products were superior to non Harley products.  If she only knew the truth.

I think it is more the attitude and support for an inferior engineered product that brings the animosity toward Harley riders.  It’s obvious that some Harley riders just bought their bike to gain acceptance into the biker community that has been fabricated and supported by Harley to sell merchandise and not because the bike is well engineered.  Sonny Barger has made comments on this in several of his books.  He actually prefers a Honda ST 1100 for riding.  I have heard that due to some dispute with Harley he is now riding a Victory but it has been a few years since I last saw him roaming around up in Cave Creek on his blue Harley so I do not know if that is true. 

Harley does produce a nice bike in the V-Rod series.  Despite it’s handling deficiencies I have considered purchasing one.  The dealers here in Arizona can’t give the dam things away because they do not make noise like a traditional Harley hence they do not have the Harley mystique.

Now having said all that I admit to having friends who ride all sorts of bikes.  Goldwings, Valks, Harley’s, BMW’s sport touring bikes, sport bikes and my oldest friend rides a Vespa.  They are all part of the motorcycling community and one reason I consider them as my friends is we all enjoy the common denominator of traveling on two wheels together and they don’t exhibit that “look at me I’m superior” attitude.

[Cliff]

Well Stated. 

[SANDMAN5]

That's what's been said here many times. Most of us don't hate harleys
or the people that ride them. It's the "attitude". Me too also can't understand
why someone thinks they're better because of the brand name on their ride
or clothes. A friend of mine restored an old Sportster and he agreed. He said
if you pay $20,000 for a harley you're getting a $12,000 bike and paying $8,000
to join a club. I don't like harleys (I've ridden a few) and wouldn't keep one if
it was given to me, but if someone else wants one, more power to 'em. Just shut
up with the attitude and ride! YMMV.  

P.S.  Right after I bought my first Valk a friend bought a Wide Glide. Some people
       were teasing me about not having a "real bike" so I put them side by side on
       a sheet of paper comparing hp, torque, price, warranty etc. The ONLY thing
       the harley came out ahead in was mpg.

[Oss]

well I must be one of those who sound the horn going thru a tunnel
(maybe its like singing in the shower, the echo makes us sound better)

I had some texans do the same following me a few months ago

and a Norwegian also do the same thing last month (is it a month already?)

People from Kansas make fun of Nebraskans and of course everyone makes fun of Oklahomeans (sp?)

I offer to let harley riders who are friends ride my bike.

They always are grinning when they return it and never a negative comment after about
the Valk only R E S P E C T

But it was an interesting thread  thanks for posting

[Jack]

got nothing against the bike.  got nothing for an a-hole whether he's riding H-D or something else.  I have met more a-holes on GoldWings than Harleys.

[bscrive]

I have met more butt-heads that drive Harley 'wannabes', then people who actually drive Harleys.  I have yet to meet a Harley guy or gal that has given me attitude...maybe I just ignore the attitude though.

[solo1]

ATTITUDE is the name, absolutely right! I have nothing against Harleys or Harley riders. It's the sttitude of some, not all.

At a Sound Seminar that I attended sponsored by the AMA in Columbus, OIhio, one of the attendees just had to show the rest of us just how much noise a straight pipe Harley makes. (!!5 db.)  He made a pure arsehole out of himself by revving his Harley at the entrance of the Hotel everyone was staying at.

Another time I was attending a beginners class on riding just for more info.  I rode up on a 900F and jumped on a 185 Honda for the class.  The class was sponsored by ABATE and the instructors were Harley riders through and through. They named one of the exercises the Harley Hunch.  THey taught the guidelines about wearing helmets and then threw the helmets hard onto the floor.  They all hit on a nice looking female and were totally arseholes and unprofessionals.  It was so bad that I rode 85 miles to take the ERC couses so that I wouldn't have to put up with these idiots!

One last one. I rode my Valkyire to the local Meijer big box store.  There was a full dress Harley parked right up against the store by the entrance in a no parking zone. WHen I came out, it was gone and I walked some distance to where I parked the Valk ( away from the people that  park by ear).  As I came up to it, I noticed a grandmother and her 6 year old grandson were looking at it. I asked her if it was ok to seat the youngster on my Valk.  She said ok and he was nothing but smiles.  I let him honk the Rivco air horns, bigger smile!  I then told him and her that I was going to start it. The boy immediately, immediately put his hands over his ears.  She explained that when they were coming out of the store this guy got on his bike  right by the store entrance , fired it up, and revved the he## out of it, and then smiled under his do rag.

I won't even mention the neighborhood guy that would go past our house revving his straight pipe Harley and waking up my soon to be deceased wife.

There have Harley riders that I met that were great guys but the ones with the ATTITUDE outnumber them IMO.

[ValkFlyer]

People, not all, look for all sorts of ways to be accepted, to be a part of something big....or what they feel will make them special. If Harley wasn't so great at herding "sheep" many of these so called "riders" would be looking for some other form of acceptance........ like so many of the "Occupy" drones.

[Jess Tolbirt]

as quoted above "I think it is more the attitude and support for an inferior engineered product that brings the animosity toward Harley riders."

you really need to read up on the newer harleys..heck they dont even have throttle cables any more.. drive by wire.

[Momz]

Several years ago a bunch of us valk riders pulled into a gas station to gas up and pee. Then all of a sudden we heard a herd of HDs and then they pulled into that same gas station.

A couple of them started to raz us about riding "Jap Crap". Then one of them asked when we where going to buy HDs. I shouted back at him that "those HDs do make good little starter bikes".

That rider got so mad that his face turned several shades of red.

We soon left the station and most of the HD riders gave us the one finger salute,...we laughed at their ignorance.

Ride what you want, but don't ride a HD in front of me,...because you will be passed.

[Jess from VA]

Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do......?

In this crowded, impersonal, conformist world, many crave a bad boy persona and the HD and it's attendant image (and accessories) is a ready made avenue.  Then you get into the pack (mob) mentality.

[Hotrodwing]

 I would have said 15 miles and 5 bars don't make you a rider

[fudgie]

Love HD parts. I have 4 HD parts on the bike. Love HD clothing. Have alot of shirts and misc stuff. Hondas clothing line sucks ass.  

[Gryphon Rider]

On our first ride together whenever we were at a stop light he was blipping the throttle.  When we got to the restaurant I asked him about it and all he could say was that it was fun.  He never did that on his Honda.

I would think that "it was fun" is a good enough reason to blip his throttle.  Blipping the throttle on my hotrodded Olds Cutlass was fun, feeling the torque rock the car while the tailpipes barked.  When I blip the throttle on my Valk, I like the sound, but I just feel a buzz.  Not quite as exciting.  That's the trade-off for the ability to do the "nickle trick" because the rotation of the transmission is opposite that of the engine, negating the torque effect of blipping the throttle.  Is blipping the throttle on a Harley or a muscle car juvenile?  Maybe.  Is it fun?  Yeah!

 Sometimes, "I like it!" is enough of a reason.

Cracker - "I like it!"	powered by Aeva

[art]

I "had" a friend in Prescott,Az. that I worked with that was into harleys .He had a two car garage full of old harleys an boxes of parts.Anyway we rode togeather when I had a shadow 1100 aero an then my valk.We would go down to Phoenix an look at the bikes at the harley shop an drool but when we went to the honda shop all he would do is bitch about them trying to copy harley.He would never ask me about my valk or shadow but I have caught him looking .One time we were coming back from a dinner ride with our wives an another friend with a 1800 vtx when we passed a hotel in Prescott where there was a bunch of valkrie riders having a ride in .[The same one posted on this site] Well his wife asked who were those bikers .We said they were valkyrie riders.She turned up her nose an walked away.Needless to say I stopped riding with them.They were a--holes an I don't need that crap from anyone.But I still think harleys are beautiful bikes. Its some of  the idiots riding them that cause problems

[Paxton]

My father was a Pentecostal Preacher by night and a Cement Finisher by day. He rode the loudest Harleys to work and to church...
always with suit and tie!

For a while he did not own a car. So, we all went to church in it; me riding on the tank and my mom and 3 sisters behind my Dad.
He bolted a piece of 2" X 10" to the rear fender long enough so they would have more space to seat. No pegs!

Of course, as we rode through the small sleepy town just 'bout every day at the same time, folks would be seating at their balcony
to see us pass by.

There was only one other motorcycle (a Harley) in this small town. The guy "converted" to our church so he could ride w/Dad.

The place was small enough that when we rode into town everyone knew that it was church time! 

I do recall my Dad preaching many sermons with greasy hands.

[The Anvil]

I have been told by a friend who lived in Japan for over 20 years and continues to work with them that the Japanese wonder why Americans have such a fondness for the mechanically inferior Harley products.

The problem with their attitude is that Harleys are not inferior for what they are. But the Japanese hold certain paradigms of design and engineering and they don't really have any commonalities with the way we do things. Japan is still a very alien society from ours. No less civilized but about as unlike us as possible in terms of custom and tradition and there's a great deal of cultural arrogance on both sides.

[Thulsa Doom]

Judging by some of the comments handed out BY the Harley riders (and their 'old ladies - that's what they call them right?) it sounds like a bunch of animosity toward anyone who DOESN'T ride a Harley.

[old2soon]

The (attitude) be most if not all of the problem!! What i notice and no it's not cast in concrete but the other than H/D used motorcycles in my neck of the woods seem to have more miles put on them than the same age H/Ds. I remember from earlier in the year a 1200cc H/D softail an 04 model with less than 4000 miles on it and right below that ad an 05 honda shadow with 25000 miles on it. And these DO NOT seem to be isolated incidents. The people i ride with that have H/Ds seem to leave some of the attitude at home. Real simple-they bring the attitude i DO NOT have to share wind with them. Course like somebody else stated i've met Gold wingers with way more attitude than some Harley folks i know. I have had some very curious questions on my Valkyrie but i have also answered the stupid ones from loaded with attitude folks. I be a pretty fair hand at returning the favor. RIDE SAFE.

[fon1961]

my bike doesn't define me, just a tool for relaxing and having fun.

[fudgie]

They believe their bikes are the greatest as we believe ours is the greatest. So is it them that really have the problems???    Hell even I get a attitude when I ride.

I do call Kit my ol lady tho. Cant get her to wear the belt that says 'property of Fudgie'. 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Had a good ridin' bud buy a Harley and then would'nt ride with us ..... I passed him in my car one day with his new Harley buds and it did'nt look to me like he was enjoying his new found friends....Did'nt take him long to come back riding with his real friends

[scoot]

Oklahomeans (sp?)

Is that a sexual preference or a way of life  

[Gear Jammer]

While Americans appreciate craftsmanship and quality in their cars and trucks and the Japanese have been able to successfully compete and produce good products to meet those demands, the same person does not have the same requirements for the motorcycles they choose to buy.   Have you ever noticed how many Harley owners have high end cars/trucks made in Germany or Japan? What is that all about?

those "high-end" cars from Germany and Japan cost big bucks usually .    That's what the Harley has in common with them.   I wonder if the HD brand cost a lot less if these folks would be as brand loyal ?  You do have to give HD credit for being marketing masters.  Apple's Steve Jobs made what some would say is a better product, and charged more money.  HD charges more money for ?? and get more people to buy their products  Genius  

[BF]

" Why the animosity toward Harley Products" 


You ask the question in regard to Harley "products", then go on a rant about Harley owners that display their Harley-esq attitude.  So which is it.....Harley products that your asking about, or Harley owners with a suckass attitude?

Love the former.....hate the latter.  Like Fudgie said......

Love HD parts. I have 4 HD parts on the bike. Love HD clothing. Have alot of shirts and misc stuff. Hondas clothing line sucks ass.  

I've got a Harley leather trunk that I'm gonna put on my Valk.  I love Harley....bikes and their stuff.  Most are waaaaay over priced, but most is still good stuff. 

I grew up hanging around a little old one man Harley shop (he was the only Harley dealer in these parts back then....he and his wife lived in the back of the shop).  That shop smelled of grease and rubber tires.....it was freakin' great.   


What Honda (and a few other manufactures) haven't figured out that Harley obviously has, is that accessories and t-shirts sell.  Pretty bikes sell.  Harley makes both......Honda not so much. 

Honda makes (or used to) bikes that are more preformance oriented than blinged and chromed out....and then they don't really offer much in the way of accessories to customize it, at least not like Harley does. 

When was the last time you walked into a Honda shop an shopped for Honda t-shirts.  Your wife sure as heck can't go in a Honda dealer and shop at the Honda boutique.  Go into a Harely dealer while looking at the latest chrome goodie and your wife can go shop over the the ladies section. 

Honda ain't figured that out yet. 

I love Harley (and my Valk  ).....Harley owners with an attitude not so much.   

[old2soon]

I know what you mean on the clothing. Early on this year(march i think )Honda had a ride deal. They had the white only I wanna ride t-shirt with the Honda wing on front in red. The I wanna ride is printed in red on the back of the shirt. I had to ask for one and they did give it to me. I've looked for honda specific stuff-very little-and Valkyrie specific stuff(none what so ever) at my local dealer and you are right-they DO NOT GET IT. H/D do have that marketing stuff down pat. BUT it is WAY overpriced. RIDE SAFE.

[bscrive]

I wonder if the all American HD clothing is made in China.

[Chiefy]

Some folks prefer one ride over another for God only knows what reason.  If their choice is a Harley, more power to 'em.  I find those folks have their head on straight.  But much like trendy cars, clothes, etc.... some buy based on what's hot.  Whatever, it's their money.  What I find hilarious is the weekend warriors all dressed up like Halloween pirates down at the Dairy Queen on Saturday afternoon.  It seems to be  a generational thing more then anything, at least to me.  Young Harley riders look over and nod or wave when they see me.  It's my fellow boomers who like to pretend I'm invisible.   The same riders may scoff at my Japanese bike (made in Ohio) and then go to work Monday morning in their BMW, Toyota, or Hyundai.  People like that are not to be taken seriously.

I used to live next to some members of an "outlaw" biker group in California (not the H.A.)  Those guys were the best neighbors I ever had.  They pulled in late at night and shut down.  If they left early in the morning, they started up and drove off.  No reving the whole neighborhood awake.  And they had mufflers.  They don't sheet where they eat.   And guess what?  They LOVED my little Kawasaki 440 parallel twin.  Even helped me work on it once.

Some day the Yuppie pirates may realize how stupid they're being.  Hopefully the rest of us will chuckle and welcome them back into the motorcycle community.

By the way everything is relative.  When I used to ride my trike, NONE of the 2 wheelers on any bike would acknowledge me.  Not even in a famous group that says they're above all that.  (Don't ask, I won't name them.)

[jarid]

Hey BF I hope that Honda never does (figure that out),just keep building great bikes.

[Valkahuna]

Well, I hope you all feel better about yourselves now.

As for me, I love all motorcycles, feel kinship to their riders, and hate a$$holes whether they ride in 2, 3, 4 or any other number of wheels or ANY brand.

[hotglue #43]

Well, I hope you all feel better about yourselves now.

As for me, I love all motorcycles, feel kinship to their riders, and hate a$$holes whether they ride in 2, 3, 4 or any other number of wheels or ANY brand.

  I don't even need to post now...LOL... Roger what Valkahuna sez!

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I wonder if the all American HD clothing is made in China.

Not all....I just picked my boss up a pocket t-shirt outside of Chicago, Illinois a couple weeks ago ....It was made in Pakistan and cost $32.00 out the door    ( I've stopped all across the country to hook him up with a shirt he does'nt care what they cost and always gives my money back ).   He just bought a new Street Glide that's ( 3 ) he owns now and all beautiful blinged out machines.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Well, I hope you all feel better about yourselves now.

As for me, I love all motorcycles, feel kinship to their riders, and hate a$$holes whether they ride in 2, 3, 4 or any other number of wheels or ANY brand.

  I don't even need to post now...LOL... Roger what Valkahuna sez!

My thoughts exactly 

[Jess Tolbirt]

so far i dont have a harley attitude,, even when i had my old 94 electra glide i didnt have the attidude.. but,,, i priced a new interstate chopper looking thing from honda, i looked at the VTX and the kawasaki voyager,, i bought my new electra glide out the door for 17,200...
when i get ready to sell it i will get at least 2/3 of my money back..the kawasaki was 18,400,,
 and btw, Bev and I love to ride,, this bike is 2 months old and so far 3000 miles,,

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

when i get ready to sell it i will get at least 2/3 of my money back.. 

Good luck with that ....Do you ever look at Craigslist , E-Bay, Cycle Trader , local paper classifieds ? It takes forever to wade through all the Harleys that's for sale . We rode with a guy last weekend on the " Land Between The Lakes Ride " that was on the full dress whatever they call it FLXDHYRESDFR Screamin' Eagle he told us he wrote a check for $45,000 for the bike I pretty much called him stupid and he said " Oh I got the extended warranty with it Joe "  ???   

[Jess Tolbirt]

dam for 45 grand i could have 3 valks and my harley..my home didnt cost that much..
most bikes like mine are selling for about 12 if less than 10 years old,,,
also i would not own any harley thats been modified, thats when problems start arrising with the engines...

[DIGGER]

Wild Hoggs Peter Fonda called them "POSERS"....they usually are wearing the "COSTUMES" Harley sells in their little botiques.

[shortleg]

  I think that like myself all Harley riders should also own a Honda.
 That way when they ride the Honda blood will keep their head on their
sholders and not other places.
          Shortleg[Dave]

[MCRIDER]

I have been told by a friend who lived in Japan for over 20 years and continues to work with them that the Japanese wonder why Americans have such a fondness for the mechanically inferior Harley products.   She has told me that based on what communications she has had with her friends in Japan, basically Honda is giving up on trying to understand the American motorcycle buyer because it defies logic and common sense.  While Americans appreciate craftsmanship and quality in their cars and trucks and the Japanese have been able to successfully compete and produce good products to meet those demands, the same person does not have the same requirements for the motorcycles they choose to buy.   Have you ever noticed how many Harley owners have high end cars/trucks made in Germany or Japan? What is that all about?

Defies logic and common sense.  Yep, that's it.  A better question is:  Why does it seem to bother you guys so much?

[Valkahuna]

I have been told by a friend who lived in Japan for over 20 years and continues to work with them that the Japanese wonder why Americans have such a fondness for the mechanically inferior Harley products.   She has told me that based on what communications she has had with her friends in Japan, basically Honda is giving up on trying to understand the American motorcycle buyer because it defies logic and common sense.  While Americans appreciate craftsmanship and quality in their cars and trucks and the Japanese have been able to successfully compete and produce good products to meet those demands, the same person does not have the same requirements for the motorcycles they choose to buy.   Have you ever noticed how many Harley owners have high end cars/trucks made in Germany or Japan? What is that all about?

Defies logic and common sense.  Yep, that's it.  A better question is:  Why does it seem to bother you guys so much?

BINGO!!!!! The magic question.