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trout dude
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« on: February 05, 2014, 03:46:06 PM » |
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I bought this bike to fix for Shelia (Water Bug) The bike sat for 5 years Got the motor unstuck carbs apart and soaking Now working on clutch . When I got the bike it was hydro locked I drained 3.5 gal of old gas and oil out of block and trans. Now the clutch lever only pulls in haft way in I did some research and found some info about rivets turning loose is there any thing else that this could be or is that it.
Thanks Dennis (AKA TROUT DUDE)
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Michvalk
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 03:58:49 PM » |
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Before I did anything else, I would change fluid in everything. Swapping out fluid and bleeding is needed anyway, and will probably fix the problem. There is also a short rod behind the slave for the clutch that might need greasing as well, just because the bike sat for so long.  |
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trout dude
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 05:02:47 PM » |
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Thanks Michvalk I will try this in the morning I did all ready bleed the clutch but did not know about the rod I hope it's just stuck and takes care of this The rod dose it drive the plates in and out just asking
Thanks Dennis
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Bone
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2014, 05:23:17 PM » |
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Have you clicked on Shoptalk near the top of the page? Lots of info with pictures. http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/GL1/gl29.jpgThe GL 1500 Valkyrie Microfiche shows the clutch master cylinder and it's componets. |
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Michvalk
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 06:46:54 PM » |
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Thanks Michvalk I will try this in the morning I did all ready bleed the clutch but did not know about the rod I hope it's just stuck and takes care of this The rod dose it drive the plates in and out just asking
Thanks Dennis
Yep, that's the one! Searching the tech page will get you pages and pages on the clutch, and everything else! |
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trout dude
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 08:45:54 AM » |
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Hi everyone I took the slave For the clutch out today look pretty go and the rod came right out. Do you think with all that gas in the crank case it could have messed up the clutch is there any thing else to do before i take the clutch out. Lever still only pulls in half way after fluid change and bleed.
Thanks Dennis
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Michvalk
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 09:45:16 AM » |
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pulling the clutch would be last resort for me. I would get the motor running, then check out the clutch. But, that said, the clutch COULD have been affected from sitting in gas and oil mix from the hydrolock. Your call |
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rugguy
Member
Posts: 245
2000 Valk I/S
Atlanta, GA
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 02:29:26 PM » |
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If the clutch plates are sticking together in the basket it could make the clutch VERY hard to pull in all the way. They could easily be gummed up sitting for five years.
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I hate sand....sand SUCKS!
I wear a helmet....."I'd rather have brains in my head than wind in my hair"
1999 Valk I/S
2000 Valk I/S
2001 BMW K1200 LTE (sold)
2002 FLHRSEI (for sale)
2006 FLHCTUI (sold)
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 02:50:46 PM » |
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No,,,, pulling the clutch lever only pushes the clutch spring (diaphragm).
Sticking plates will remain stuck.
Jury is out on whether the problem is rivet related.
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 07:56:16 AM by Ricky-D »
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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trout dude
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 03:10:26 PM » |
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Ricky-D & rugguy
Do y'all think there is any way or any thing to unstick them with out pulling the clutch .
Michvalk I should have the bike running by tuesday will have all the parts by monday.
Thank everyone for your input .
Dennis
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 03:28:00 PM » |
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Can you get the bike in and out of gear? If so put her in gear and rock it forward and back a few times, and then pul in the clutch while doing it, maybe things will unstick.
IF you open the bleeder on the slave, does the lever go all the way? If so, I would loosen up the bolts holding the slave on and see if the lever can be moved further with the bolts loose, if so you know master, line, and slave are clear. If not, rebuild the slave cylinder. If moisture collected in there, it may have siezed the piston up. If it is too bad to rebuild, get a used one. Good Luck and say Hi to Sheila for me.
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 Troy, MI |
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trout dude
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 03:41:07 PM » |
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Skinhead
I took the slave cylinder off today and the piston is moving freely the rod pulled out freely and while bleeding the line the lever will go all the way in with no problem. Shelia (Water Bug) say's hi back
Thanks Dennis
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 08:01:13 AM » |
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I seem to recall there was a thread maybe six or more months ago about the same kind of problem and it was blocked oil passages in the clutch compartment. Trash or something!
A search ought to turn up that thread.
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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trout dude
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2014, 10:47:03 AM » |
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Ricky-D
I looked and looked could not find that thread can you take the cover and clean them or would you have to pull the clutch also?
Thanks Dennis
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5763
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 09:42:17 PM » |
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If the clutch plates are sticking together in the basket it could make the clutch VERY hard to pull in all the way. They could easily be gummed up sitting for five years.
I would think just that. Sitting for 5 years, with only half the plate resting in oil/gas mix, the first thing I would do is get some fresh oil in there, run the engine maybe 10 min at a time a few times a day for a week to get the oil to coat the plates, drain, and fresh oil again. See how it is behaving after that, before you decide to change the plates. I don't believe there is any steel on steel contact in there for them to "rust" onto. |
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1999 Black with custom paint IS   |
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trout dude
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 11:36:13 AM » |
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Ok got to take the bike down the street yesterday and the clutch got worse now it won't pull in at all at the lever any more suggestions would like to fix this with out pulling the back end off.
Thanks Dennis
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 01:45:34 PM » |
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You may have some success bleeding the system.
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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trout dude
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 05:14:36 PM » |
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You may have some success bleeding the system.
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I just bleed a quart of fluid through it the old fashion way no change.
Dennis |
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2014, 08:56:09 AM » |
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My feeling is that it still is a hydraulic problem.
If the mc seems to be working properly
then getting the slave off for inspection
would be next.
You have to find the bind.
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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trout dude
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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2014, 12:02:41 PM » |
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Ricky-D
Is there a way to test the slave when I get it off the bike. Also thanks for all your help
Dennis
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2014, 02:05:40 PM » |
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Yep
Squeeze the lever!
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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trout dude
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 06:30:19 AM » |
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Ricky-D
I was able to start back on the wife's bike again today. I pulled the slave out and
Squeeze the lever!. The slave moved a little so i did it again and it moved some more and the last time i did it the cylinder cocked to the side and fluid started coming out . Should it have moved out all at one time. Should I change the slave and dose some thing hold the cylinder in the slave.
Thanks Dennis
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Highbinder
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 07:42:33 AM » |
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Skinheads test is correct, if you pull in the lever and open the bleeder and the lever bottoms out then its not a rivet problem, its hydraulic ...
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indybobm
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 07:45:40 AM » |
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I would think that when the slave cylinder is on the bike, the pressure from the clutch assembly would move the piston back to the starting point. With the slave removed from the bike, I would expect the piston to come out each time you squeeze the lever until it pops out or gets cocked to one side. Not sure how much it should move with each squeeze of the lever.
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So many roads, so little time
VRCC # 5258
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 08:39:44 AM » |
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Once the piston comes out of the slave cylinder, just get a rebuild kit, clean the cylinder, (maKe a hone from a dowel and son fine wet or dry sand paper) hone the cylinder and rebuild. You may need to replace the piston if if is FUBAR.
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Troy, MI |
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lljjmm
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 09:53:47 AM » |
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Is there a Honda part # for a slave cylinder rebuild kit?
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 11:47:12 AM » |
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Complete slave cyl:
22860-MZ0-000 CYLINDER ASSY., SLAVE $70.53
Parts to rebuild:
22863-MJ8-003 PISTON, SLAVE CYLINDER $19.04
22864-MB0-003 SPRING, SLAVE CYLINDER $4.85
22865-MJ8-003 CUP, SLAVE CYLINDER $8.22
91209-MB0-003 OIL SEAL (8X18X5) $3.33
91204-MB0-013 OIL SEAL (8X25X8) (ARAI) $3.33
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Troy, MI |
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whitestroke
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2014, 11:43:58 AM » |
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Minibike
Honda S90
Yamaha YL100
Bultaco 250 Matador
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Yamaha 250 YZ
Triumph 650 Bonni
Honda ATC 200
2 Kids 25 year break.
Suzuki GS 500
2003 VTX 1300S,
1998 Valk standard
2008 Goldwing
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trout dude
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 01:03:23 PM » |
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 01:13:18 PM » |
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From what it looks like in the fuzzy picture, you have some rivets floating around.
Time for a clutch rebuild.
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44 Harley ServiCar   |
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trout dude
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« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2014, 01:22:54 PM » |
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Yes sir that's what that was. Took the pic's with my phone.
Thanks Dennis
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HayHauler
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« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2014, 02:44:42 PM » |
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Looks very similar to the one I wore out in 90,000 miles....  I bought all of the plates, both metal and fiber. Some say you can get by with just the fiber plates if your metal plates are within spec. I would buy a new spring also to give the clutch that "new" feeling and the best clamping force. My $.01875. Hay  Jimmyt |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2014, 03:17:28 PM » |
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Atta boy Dennis, I knew you'd get to the bottom of it, and thanks for the pics.
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Troy, MI |
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salty1
Member
Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2014, 03:34:13 PM » |
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Congrats on getting to the bottom of the problem. Be sure and come back let us know how everything turns out.
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A   |
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blotar
Member
Posts: 145
VRCC #32549 VRCCDS#0237
Crosby, Texas
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« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2014, 06:32:55 PM » |
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I have rebuilt two clutches with the dreaded rivet problem. I wanted to see if I could make a concious decision that was sound without changing every piece in the unit. I looked in the manual and got the specification for clutch plate thickness. I checked every plate and decided only to change the more expensive double plate (with the rivets) and the two plates on each side of it as they were damaged from the loose rivets. Since the case gasket tore on one rebuild it had to be changed. the other did not. Very inexpensive, but a little frustrating repair. (home made tools for removing the clutch spring and aligning the plates for reassembly. Very satisfying work for me.
Blotar
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2014, 06:50:09 PM » |
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I have rebuilt two clutches with the dreaded rivet problem. I wanted to see if I could make a concious decision that was sound without changing every piece in the unit. I looked in the manual and got the specification for clutch plate thickness. I checked every plate and decided only to change the more expensive double plate (with the rivets) and the two plates on each side of it as they were damaged from the loose rivets. Since the case gasket tore on one rebuild it had to be changed. the other did not. Very inexpensive, but a little frustrating repair. (home made tools for removing the clutch spring and aligning the plates for reassembly. Very satisfying work for me.
Blotar
Blotar, good on ya bro. I had the same thing go when I had a blower on mine. I changed everything. 6 months later, I took the blower off and shipped it to Scotland I think it was. Somewhere across the pond. My memory ain't worth $.02 anymore. I got the $$$$, but I never heard anything from him since. So have no idea if it arrived and if it worked for him. |
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44 Harley ServiCar |
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5763
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2014, 05:05:19 PM » |
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Thanks for the post of pictures, I've always wondered what it looked like with regards to the rivets going bad.
Looks like the rivets wore away, and the clutch pads themselves shifted and jammed together in what ever space they had between the metal plates. No wonder the clutch doesn't move any more, releasing.
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1999 Black with custom paint IS |
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trout dude
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« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2014, 05:33:45 PM » |
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I took the clutch pack apart today and there was not a rivet left in place. This had to have been going out before it was sat up and i bought the bike. Will have part's in friday night so I hope to have it back together by saturday. We will see what happens y'all know what happens when you make plans they change.
Dennis
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 06:36:03 PM » |
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So I take it no other plates were damaged?
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Troy, MI |
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