Shock questions, updated

[CoreyP]

2001 standard with the wife and I weighing in at around 310 when riding two up.

What's available out there for shocks? What is the length of a OE shock on a Valkyrie? I sit flat footed on the bike so I certainly don't need shorter shocks.

I checked the progressive site and only the 412 are available for a Valkyrie according to the web site. That's not what I want. I want to be able to at least adjust the preload on the fly. My wife rides with me a lot so it would be nice to switch back and forth depending one whether I'm riding alone or with her.

Just wondering what you guys are running without me spending hours and hours searching the net. BTW I don't think I'll selling this bike any time soon so I can spend some money on the shocks. The current ones  are some sort of progressive shock but they are bottoming out when I ride two up. Unknown age.  

I'm looking at something like this. https://www.partsgiant.com/p324944-progressive-444-series-shocks?m=544683&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwqqwpemz5wIVFKSzCh12MAzEEAQYASABEgJbNvD_BwE&f=109735

[CoreyP]

Anyone using custom built shocks? I'm thinking it's not worth the money on a cruiser but I have had shocks built for sport bikes.

13 inch right for an OEM shock?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Anyone using custom built shocks? I'm thinking it's not worth the money on a cruiser but I have had shocks built for sport bikes.

13 inch right for an OEM shock?

no, and yes. Many like the 444's that you linked.

[sandy]

Check Worx Performance. They build them custom for your weight and riding style. Yes; 13" is stock length.

[Bighead]

A problem with the ones on the bike now?

[98valk]

" My wife rides with me a lot so it would be nice to switch back and forth depending one whether I'm riding alone or with her. "

progressive 416 air shocks might be the way to go.

[CoreyP]

A problem with the ones on the bike now?

I've played with the preload and even with it cranked to tightest position I bottom out riding two up and that's not on big bumps. The rear tire I just replaced was a mess, old and it was unevenly worn which makes me think the shocks were/are bouncing causing the uneven wear along with bottoming out on relatively small bumps. 

I just think I would be better off with some new shocks for the above reasons. Shocks don't last very long and these could be pretty old. I just don't know the age but I do know they do not look close to new. The sticker that says progreesive on the shock is just about worn off at this point.

[CoreyP]

" My wife rides with me a lot so it would be nice to switch back and forth depending one whether I'm riding alone or with her. "

progressive 416 air shocks might be the way to go.

What are those going to do for except be easy to pump up and down? Never had air shocks on a bike but on a car they just get higher and harder as you pump them up. Not sure if that would be comfortable as opposed to other shocks?

[CoreyP]

Check Worx Performance. They build them custom for your weight and riding style. Yes; 13" is stock length.

You riding on a set of those?

[Bighead]

Find a set of Interstate shocks with low mileage. I have a ‘97 standard and loaded with wife and luggage probably getting close to 475 lbs. and only ever have bottomed out a couple of times and that was on very hard bumps and my shocks are close to 23 yrs old.
Btw over 130k on those shocks.

[Leathel]

I am looking at custom adjustable shocks atm.....they are not cheap

A company local to me will custom build some either Ohlins or Nitron ...for 2k  

I have tried YSS and they were mint 2 up but they were to stiff solo, has adjustable rebound but where Thai made, passed them onto a friend with a heavier bike and he loved them, shock rubbers needed replacing before they should have needed too, but some shops do custom builds to suit you as they have spring options

But Bitubo has rebound, and rebound/compression adjustable models

Hagon is another option I have been looking at...

Wilbers but at that cost I might as well get custom made to me... still looking

I have some 444's on ATM but just some I had of another bike and the valving doesn't suit the weight of the bike, I also need to free my front up, went progressive springs and 10W oil at factory spec oil levels and it's too stiff


http://www.wemoto.com.au/bikes/honda/gl_1500_cw_f6c_valkyrie/98/picture/rear_hagon_2810_adjustable_shocks_-_chrome_springs/

http://www.wemoto.com.au/bikes/honda/gl_1500_cw_f6c_valkyrie/98/picture/rear_yss_z-series_twin_shocks/

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/362362618038?ul_noapp=true

https://www.bihr.eu/fr/en/bitubo-wme02-twin-rear-shock-absorber-black-honda-f6c-7700527

http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/Wilbers-Suspension/Wilbers-Motorbike-Shock.html?listID=1629

[dconstruct55]

I have the 444's on my Toured and really like them. Your combined weight and the combined weight of my wife and I are about the same. 13" and HD should do it for you. They really can't be adjusted on the fly, but can be adjusted without any tools.

[Avanti]

Just a not on weight.  If you are one that wears "all the gear all the time" that is about plus 20 pounds per rider.

[oke]

Read this. I made this update to my rear shocks eight years ago. They are still in excellent conditon. Thank you 8Track.


   Author    Topic: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks  (Read 2191 times)
8Track
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You all know the common problem with standard Valk rear shocks - they give up the ghost and get real soggy after about 25,000kms.The typical options are to either replace with aftermarket or try to get some good Interstate shocks.

I went the Interstate shock route, but that didn't work out as they wrecker listed them incorrectly on Ebay and sent me another pair of standard Valk shocks.

I didn't want to spend $500+ on aftermarket, so my engineering mate took the standard shocks apart to inspect. He found that the dampers were in fine condition, but the springs were not up to the task. The OEM springs are progressive rate, and the softer section is just too soft. He worked out that when new, the soft end is around 180 pounds per inch, and the hard end is about 240 pounds. After the use they had, he estimated the springs were down about 25% on original strength. Definitely the cause of the saggy ride, high pre-load needed, and bottoming out too easily.

For $85 we ordered a pair of 300 pound linear rate springs on ebay from China. They turned up in less than a week being off the shelf items. They are 1/2 inch shorter than stock so another friend turned up two metal spacers to fill the void.

The bike now feels very comfortable and controlled on the road, with better turn in. It rides much, much better and you can push it through the twisties with total confidence.

If any of you want specifics on the springs and where they came from I am happy to post up a link.

Cheers,

Mark



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quexpress
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 08:15:41 AM »
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Well done!  cooldude
Please post the spring info, links, etc. It could certainly be useful to others.
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YoungPUP
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 12:04:29 PM »
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Yes please post!  Pics, instructions, problems, etc.  A ride report as to how it hadles would be good too.  Thanks!
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 06:58:51 AM »
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Hi there lads,

I will get the links and other info for you in the next few days.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 06:11:19 PM »
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Quote from: 8Track on August 09, 2012, 06:58:51 AM
Hi there lads,

I will get the links and other info for you in the next few days.

Cheers,

Mark
  Way kewl.  cooldude That bit of info could be very handy here bouts.  coolsmiley RIDE SAFE.
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 01:19:40 PM »
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I was told that my original equipment showa shocks were NOT
rebuildable. Several people (including my mechanic) have said it.

Is it possible that the Aussie version original shocks are a different
kinda shock, one that CAN be rebuilt?

If mine can be rebuilt, that'll be awesome. I'm bottoming out.
Want to fix the problem.
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 03:40:24 PM »
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+1 cooldude
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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 05:53:10 PM »
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Hi lads,

The standard Valkyrie rear shocks are only rebuildable insofar as replacing the springs. The dampers are not rebuildable. Note the Aussie bikes carry the same shocks as the rest of the world.

To take them apart you simply need to compress them and unscrew the top shock mount. Depending on the condition/age of your shocks, the top mount may have bonded itself onto the thread of the damper rod because it is made from aluminium. In this case you need to find a way of preventing the rod from turning when unscrewing the top mount.

Once apart, you simply need to take out the stock springs and replace with your new ones, put it all back together, taking care to set up you preload indicators correctly, put it back in the press and replace the top mount. Job done!

The dampers are a sealed unit. You can check if they are ok by making sure there are no fluid leaks and pulling on the damper rod. It should pull out easily and push in slowly with a good level of resistance.

You can order custom springs made to the correct length of 8.5 inches, however to save money we used an off the shelf spring (8 inches) and had a friend machine up half inch spacers out of metal.

Here is the link to the springs:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170907114322#ht_500wt_1054

They are DNM branded 300 pound, 200mm long dirt bike springs. They have an inner diameter of 45mm and outer diameter of 65mm. The Ebay seller is called mini-parts-porter.

The job was a complete success. It cost $85 inc shipping and took about 1.5 hours total. The ride and handling is greatly improved.

Regards,

Mark

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Re: Success - I fixed my existing rear shocks
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 07:43:51 PM »
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Good Job Mark and thanks for posting your experience. This will add the the general knowledge pool.
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[sandy]

You riding on a set of those?
[/quote]

I've had a set since '05 When the company was Works. Owner died and the daughter took over and rebranded it Worx. The springs and valving are customized to your weight and riding style. Love 'em.

[MarkT]

If you are thinking of 444's, read this thread.  I did several experiments with different model 444's that had different spring rates.  Related weight to the shocks, specifically spring rates.  Progressive does not do this on their specs chart.  Really confusing, they leave it up to us to figure it out.  BTW I was 295# when I set this up.  Now I've lost weight, down to 230 and still going.  The 444-4057 shocks with 140-200 springs work well for me.  On road trips I am solo and pull trailers - either a Tagalong or a Timeout camper, both are set up with plenty of tongue weight with a large cooler I added in order to adjust tongue weight.  Locally I may have a co-rider at ~130# w/o the trailers.  I keep the preload cranked up full all the time and pretty much never bottom out.  Bumps just disappear.  I keep a strap wrench in my toolkit for changing the preload - I'm not able to turn that collar by hand and anybody who says they can must be named Schwartzeneggar.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,96862.0.html

Also check this thread, especially my comments.  The link to Progressive's spec page is there.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,106575.0.html

Also read this thread:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,106554.0.html

After reading the above links you should be well prepared to choose which 444 shock to buy for you.  You might also want to consider the shock length, if OEM 13" isn't right for you.

[98valk]

 BTW I was 295# when I set this up.  Now I've lost weight, down to 230 and still going.

congrats on losing the weight  , Blessings  to you to keep it off and to go lower.

now the supercharge bike will go faster. 

[CoreyP]

MarkT this sums it up.

"Progressive does not do this on their specs chart.  Really confusing, they leave it up to us to figure it out."

That's why I'm on the fence with having some shocks built for me. A good company can really dial it in on what you are doing but I don't know if they can come up with a good solution of going from 1 up to 2 up? I think I will call a couple of shock builders and see what they say and get a ball park figure on cost.

[Leathel]

MarkT this sums it up.

"Progressive does not do this on their specs chart.  Really confusing, they leave it up to us to figure it out."

That's why I'm on the fence with having some shocks built for me. A good company can really dial it in on what you are doing but I don't know if they can come up with a good solution of going from 1 up to 2 up? I think I will call a couple of shock builders and see what they say and get a ball park figure on cost.

all it takes is getting it wrong and need to buy another set and you are in custom price range...

The companies that build to your spec cheaper than custom fit......but you get it wrong and you are back in custom fit price.

[98valk]

" My wife rides with me a lot so it would be nice to switch back and forth depending one whether I'm riding alone or with her. "

progressive 416 air shocks might be the way to go.

What are those going to do for except be easy to pump up and down? Never had air shocks on a bike but on a car they just get higher and harder as you pump them up. Not sure if that would be comfortable as opposed to other shocks?

they are not car shocks.  they have a separate oil reservoir that can be adjusted along with the air section and not just an air reservoir like car airshocks. a search will bring up much, many use them as you want solo and two up riding.

[MarkT]

I should add, you can't change just the springs using the same damper even if you have the right tool.  (I do.)  The damping rate changes with the springs; I tried changing just the springs but the result was different and inadequate compared to the same spring rate shock with the correct damper.  Getting it wrong with new 444's is expensive if you can't recover the money for the wrong choice.  It's beyond me why they don't provide help info on their charts for load vs. spring rates, and some kind of exchange or warranty program on this issue.  That would surely pay off with increased sales.  I was too low on the spring rate with 4020's (105/150) springs, way too little preload with my 290 wt at that time, nevermind with a co-rider or trailer.  Also tried a 4039 with it's 210/250 springs, was like a hardtail.  Horrible for me.  Tried the 140/200 springs on the 4020 damper, still bottomed out.  The 4057 was "just right" (in my best Goldilocks voice).  And now with weight going down I may actually get to lower the preload off of full 8 turns.  BTW I was able to not lose my ass by returning the 4039's since I was extremely careful not to mark them in any way; tested with a very short ride; was sufficient to learn it wasn't the right one.  Their policy is, "if installed not returnable".  I won't mention what seller I abused but they indeed were not marked at all - and at such high cost, and w/o help from Progressive or the vendor on wt vs. spring rate choices I had little choice.  I still wound up losing some money but only for the extra springs.  Also you can't buy all the parts to my knowledge, though I did get the springs separate.  Go figure - I did see the spring changer tool for sale, though I wound up making my own since I have the needed pieces, tools and ability.  The tool I made:



Also I should mention, I have run 416 air shocks on Deerslayer for around 20 years.  I've had to rebuild them with new seals several times.  I do abuse them with an onboard compressor which has too much pressure for them.  So they may leak sooner as a result.  But I found they don't provide enough preload without that.  You can increase the compression rate by adding more oil, which I did.  Though it's nice to be able to dial them up a bit before you hit the twisties, then lower it again for a cushy ride.  Or if you change your preload need frequently.  I wouldn't recommend them unless you won't be overloading them, you have onboard air, and you don't mind rebuilding them periodically.  Correctly sprung 444's are a much better soln for me.  Albeit more expensive.  I pretty much never change the preload.

[jdp]

There is a small company that’s making suspension parts in California and I’m looking for the name and address now but they make rear shocks for motorcycles, I bought a real nice 15 inch shocks that are adjustable from them for a bike I was building a couple of years ago for $175 new and with my specs, I’ll try to find it and post it up

[pokrovsky]

I recently fitted BiTubo fully adjustable rear shocks on mine and am very happy with them. For the price/quality/looks/adjustability these are hard to beat. Definitely vastly superior to Progressive and at a reasonable price

here is the link to the website with the specs: http://bitubosrl.zucchetti.com/Bitubo/cms/ENG/content/37-WME0.html

[CoreyP]

This turning out to be a long search. I might go air shocks but they can be expensive. I don't think I need the on board compressor and all that but that would be the good solution to one up two up riding. Hit a button on the bars to raise and lower the shocks. Just wish I could ride one somewhere.

I will update this when I finally decide and run some numbers buy guys if anyone else happens to be interested.
 

[Fixjet]

I just installed the Bitubo WME's on my interstate.  Can't wait for good weather to try them out. 

I recently fitted BiTubo fully adjustable rear shocks on mine and am very happy with them. For the price/quality/looks/adjustability these are hard to beat. Definitely vastly superior to Progressive and at a reasonable price

here is the link to the website with the specs: http://bitubosrl.zucchetti.com/Bitubo/cms/ENG/content/37-WME0.html

[turtle254]

I just installed the Bitubo WME's on my interstate.  Can't wait for good weather to try them out. 

I recently fitted BiTubo fully adjustable rear shocks on mine and am very happy with them. For the price/quality/looks/adjustability these are hard to beat. Definitely vastly superior to Progressive and at a reasonable price

here is the link to the website with the specs: http://bitubosrl.zucchetti.com/Bitubo/cms/ENG/content/37-WME0.html

How about a model number … not on the site and where you purchase them.

[CoreyP]

Where are you buying those Bitubo? I looked them up and I can't seem to find them in the US. At least not for a Valkyrie.

[pokrovsky]

I just installed the Bitubo WME's on my interstate.  Can't wait for good weather to try them out. 

I recently fitted BiTubo fully adjustable rear shocks on mine and am very happy with them. For the price/quality/looks/adjustability these are hard to beat. Definitely vastly superior to Progressive and at a reasonable price

here is the link to the website with the specs: http://bitubosrl.zucchetti.com/Bitubo/cms/ENG/content/37-WME0.html

How about a model number … not on the site and where you purchase them.

My MC shop (where I do all my ciustom suspension work) ordered them directly from Italy. Bitubo is first of all a supplier and only second a retailer but they do provide an ability to order directly from them. I can get some details from my shop

[Fixjet]

Got mine from Traxxion Dynamics, they order them from Italy and it takes a few weeks.  They are custom for your bike and weight. Spring adjustable preload and adjustable rebound.  I did find them on Bitubo's site for the Valk in a PDF file.  
 

Where are you buying those Bitubo? I looked them up and I can't seem to find them in the US. At least not for a Valkyrie.

[turtle254]

Got mine from Traxxion Dynamics, they order them from Italy and it takes a few weeks.  They are custom for your bike and weight. Spring adjustable preload and adjustable rebound.  I did find them on Bitubo's site for the Valk in a PDF file.  
 

Where are you buying those Bitubo? I looked them up and I can't seem to find them in the US. At least not for a Valkyrie.

[/quote
Can you supply a link to the PDF file?

[pokrovsky]

Got mine from Traxxion Dynamics, they order them from Italy and it takes a few weeks.  They are custom for your bike and weight. Spring adjustable preload and adjustable rebound.  I did find them on Bitubo's site for the Valk in a PDF file.  
 

Where are you buying those Bitubo? I looked them up and I can't seem to find them in the US. At least not for a Valkyrie.

[/quote
Can you supply a link to the PDF file?

http://bitubosrl.zucchetti.com/Bitubo/catalog/ENG/articolo/9-prodotti-finiti/rnmqiswatl-coppia-reg-precaricoestensione-twin-adjspring-p.html

[pokrovsky]

you can order from the shop that hooked me up and he will drop ship to you directly. He deals with the factory in Italy directly and can specify the order to your specifications.

Motorcycle Unlimited in Houston:
Patrick (owner)
motounltd@gmail.com
281-444-0545

[CoreyP]

End result I went with the Bitubo's WME's. Ordered them from Traxxion Dynamics, they asked what weight I was riding with etc. and when they come in they will set them up right and send they to me. $450 plus whatever shipping is. They said give it 2 or 3 weeks which I'm fine with.

BTW Worx starts at $619 to have a set built. Chrome etc. is extra, chrome springs plus $100 etc. etc. looks like they top out at around $1,200 for a Valkyrie. The guy at Ikon told me Worx's had financial problems so that's what prompted the name change. Ikon's were $700 for model 7610 which is what they said I needed. Must have been a slow day because they offered 10% and free shipping if I bought today. Their code is 104friend. The 7610's don't come up on a website search you have to call.

I had Race Tech build me shocks before but I didn't like the guy's attitude so they are out of the running. I don't think they care about touring bikes that much.

I gave up on the air shock idea. The big companies don't make a kit for a Valkyrie, they all come with custom brackets for the compressor to fit the bike nicely, probably what they don't have on hand. Cost for those is $1,500 give or take.  I could get progressive 416's and build my own system but I don't know how that will end up working out and I don't really want to fool around making that work. My Valkyrie is my main bike at the moment so I want it good to go at anytime. Not a couple of months of trail and error. 

[turtle254]

End result I went with the Bitubo's WME's. Ordered them from Traxxion Dynamics, they asked what weight I was riding with etc. and when they come in they will set them up right and send they to me. $450 plus whatever shipping is. They said give it 2 or 3 weeks which I'm fine with.

BTW Worx starts at $619 to have a set built. Chrome etc. is extra, chrome springs plus $100 etc. etc. looks like they top out at around $1,200 for a Valkyrie. The guy at Ikon told me Worx's had financial problems so that's what prompted the name change. Ikon's were $700 for model 7610 which is what they said I needed. Must have been a slow day because they offered 10% and free shipping if I bought today. Their code is 104friend. The 7610's don't come up on a website search you have to call.

I had Race Tech build me shocks before but I didn't like the guy's attitude so they are out of the running. I don't think they care about touring bikes that much.

I gave up on the air shock idea. The big companies don't make a kit for a Valkyrie, they all come with custom brackets for the compressor to fit the bike nicely, probably what they don't have on hand. Cost for those is $1,500 give or take.  I could get progressive 416's and build my own system but I don't know how that will end up working out and I don't really want to fool around making that work. My Valkyrie is my main bike at the moment so I want it good to go at anytime. Not a couple of months of trail and error. 

Did you get to set the height … less than the std. 13" ?

[pokrovsky]

When I ordered mine they also asked the weight, riding style, etc and when the shocks came in they also did the final fine tuning adjustment with me on the bike (they set the sag that way in addition to preload and rebound to the specs)
I ride solo with occasional loading up with luggage so I won’t be messing with adjustments much (if any)
I love the way they handle so far, admittedly I’ve only put about 300 or 400 miles since the install

[Avanti]

I could not find any information on whether the Bitubo can be rebuild or not.

[CoreyP]

I could not find any information on whether the Bitubo can be rebuild or not.

I don't know the answer to that but I would guess no.

My thinking is I'll end up with a better shock then an off the shelf one for the price of a progressive or something like that. If not I gave it a shot and I'll see how these work out. $470 isn't the end of the world. I assume about $20 for shipping, the shop is close enough for me to ride to it in a day and back.

I have read nothing bad about the Bitubo's with most reviews very favorable along with a couple guys on here bringing the shocks up. It is a European brand so not so common in the US.  I have never heard of those shocks until someone on here said something, the reason why I posted it up. The other side of my brain is saying the Italians do style well but when it comes to mechanical things they are not the most reliable.

I'm not impressed with progressive at all for shocks. They are like the Walmart of motorcycle suspension, reasonable price and will do what it's supposed to do but doesn't do it well. I went through the same crap last year trying to re- shock a 99 1100 Shadow. The first progressive's were just wrong that I ordered, sent back new ones sent. I don't feel I got much for my money in that case, they were better than the worn out progressive but the spring rates and damping is a fit all solution. The thing there is even the salesmen don't really know what's going on bike specific. 

[CoreyP]

Did you get to set the height … less than the std. 13" ?

I like 13 inches, I'm flatfooted at a stop if I want. I don't need a low shock for sure.

The shocks do come in a smaller if needed. They seem to come in a 11.75 size if you want. Here's the Harley version which comes in two sizes. https://traxxion.com/product/bitubo-shocks-wme-for-harley-davidson-motorcycles/

[Fixjet]

I could not find any information on whether the Bitubo can be rebuild or not.

Yes they can be rebuilt.  Traxxion will rebuild them as I'm sure others do also.  Mine are 13 inch and mounted up just fine.  Remind me of the Fox Shox on our Snowmobiles.

[Forge]

I have a very clean set of Progressive 440-4221 13” heavy duty shocks that were on my Interstate when I bought it. I removed them because they were too firm for me and being short, I went with lower shocks. The 440-4221 shocks are sprung for the heavier Triumph Triple and are too stiff for me at 185 pounds with back problems. I will be posting and selling them if you’re interested.