Countdown to government shutdown

[Rams]

I hold no grievance against government workers, I used to be one and my wife is one.    Having said that, I also know that while the rest of the nation's average taxpaying citizen has been struggling to survive or keep their heads above the financial water line, many government employees have been griping about not receiving a significant pay raise in the last ______ years.    My wife hasn't received one in (I think) eight years.   But, the job security she has, has allowed us to make it when I lost a job a few years ago.   I currently work with several government employees who work part time to supplement their income.    They are all great folks but, they work when they want to and only to achieve a slightly better economic personal situation or support their passions (such as one fellow who races drag boats).   The difference is for I and several of my other co-workers is, our jobs are at jeopardy everyday, not just once in every 17 years or so.   I know government workers are being used as pawns and I sincerely feel for them but, blame those who are at fault.  

What we have is an ideological division between those who want Obama Care and those who don't support it.   Or, as I see it, those who want a free ride and those who are tired of pulling a wagon load of people who aren't pulling their own weight.    I recognize some folks really do need a helping hand but, there are way too many freeloaders leaching off the system.  

We can't afford Obama Care and Obama won't accept that.    That is where I put the blame.

[old2soon]

Yet AGAIN I M H O-deception central-starting at the top-is WAY out of touch with what us working folks call-reality.  Have any one of them ever had to decide between food or clothes heat or a doctor bill?? Can I make a partial payment cause I didn't get my 40 hours last week and don't look like i'll get 40 hours this week.  Just makes me wonder but I believe I MAY know the answer to my own question.  potus supreme court senators and representatives and all the hanger ons-dump them ALL. We KNOW they don't give a hoot about us. Could the replacements be worse?? 50/50 shot there. RIDE SAFE.

[bigguy]

EXCLUSIVE Footage of the Government Shutdown's Effect on NASA

[Serk]

EXCLUSIVE Footage of the Government Shutdown's Effect on NASA

That would imply we still had a manned space program before the government slimdown... Now I'm all depressed about us having to hitch a ride with the Russians again... *Sigh*

[Jess from VA]

All the memorials in DC are run by National Park service (white house too).  Technically speaking, they are all now closed.  Was in the local news.  They said there was no plan to enforce the closures against people (like arrests for trespassing), but they're supposedly closed.

[john]

  " Great pres is willing to compromise with every Moslem govt and Syria but not his own congress. Proud of the house to finally stand up to a govt out of control and taking over every part of our lives and taking our freedoms. The Obama care bill is a disaster and every one knows it "
       I  would like to see him shove it up his ass ...           
            instead of down our throat      ???       

     " maybe it's obummers plan to get his buddies the "muslim brotherhood" to infiltrate the government "           
                their already here ...
                       and in place ...              wake up             

[The emperor has no clothes]

  " Great pres is willing to compromise with every Moslem govt and Syria but not his own congress. Proud of the house to finally stand up to a govt out of control and taking over every part of our lives and taking our freedoms. The Obama care bill is a disaster and every one knows it "
       I  would like to see him shove it up his ass ...           
            instead of down our throat      ???       

     " maybe it's obummers plan to get his buddies the "muslim brotherhood" to infiltrate the government "           
                their already here ...
                       and in place ...              wake up             

hey, don't forget to put your tinfoil hat on !

[Moonshot_1]

Watching this fiasco. Way to go Barry.

Let's see,

GOP lead house of rep, sends a budget to the Senate. It has as a provision, the delay of the implementation of Obamacare. Also has language that requires the Congress to be a part of the Obamacare plan.

It's DOA in the Senate. The President blames the GOP and words like "hostage", "terrorist", "arsonist" and the like are used to describe the House of Rep. and the GOP.

Yet, the President himself, commented that the law was indeed, not ready, that things were not happening as they were supposed to with various employer mandates and institutions, like labor unions, wanting reforms to the current law.

So it would seem like a pretty good idea to give it another year to settle out and changes made before it is foisted upon the American people.

In a sense, Obamacare is like skydiving.
The GOP is concerned about jumping out of a good airplane. May not be the best ever, but it flies reasonably well.

Obama and the Democrats want to skydive. Think it is the best thing to do.
Yet everyone realizes that the parachutes are not very good. In fact, straps are missing, in some, reams of parachute material are torn or sewn wrong.

The GOP refuses to jump out of the airplane and wants to ground it till the chutes are fixed.

Obama and the Democrats are telling everyone it is perfectly fine to jump. We'll fix the chutes on the way down.

Pretty sure that ain't gonna work.

[Jess from VA]

Another way to look at it is.....the House has voted to repeal or defund Zerocare 42 times, and now offer delay, and have shown they are determined to kill it one way or another (I thank them for their efforts!).  So even thou it's a package of feces, the socialists have decided to launch it now at all costs rather than give the conservatives more time to kill it in the future (with a one-year delay).  It is the crown jewel of socialism and they cannot bear to risk loosing it, even if it is a disaster (it is).  AND, they expect to spin the shutdown and all fights over Zerocare into more hate mail against conservatives and more votes than they would otherwise get in the future, with the help and cheer leading of the MSM.  From the socialist point of view, it's not a bad plan. 

[Daddie O]

Let me give you a brief civics lesson.  Article 1, Section 8 of our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the Congress to pass a budget.  Please re-read that sentence, because it seems many of you seem to blame our President for the state of our budget or lack of it.  Since there was no consensus on funding of the Iraq war (which we never should have entered), the Republicans did an "end around" by funding things through "Continuing Resolutions".  Ever since then, they have utterly failed in their Constitutional responsibility to pass a budget.  Just like we don't call a military action a war anymore, we don't call funding programs a budget anymore.

The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed by both the House and the Senate, and signed into law by the President.  The law was challenged in court, and found by the Supreme Court to be Constitutional.  Obamacare and it's implementation (or the idea to repeal it) was a major part of the 2012 General Election where President Obama was re-elected, and the Democrats gained seats in both the House and the Senate.

The Republican controlled house has tried over 40 times to repeal, strip, or defund the Affordable Care Act, and they have failed every single time.  Now, instead of doing their Constitutional duty to pass a budget, the House sends a "Continuing Resolution" to the Senate, attempting to defund the Affordable Care Act yet again.  That resolution is dead on arrival.  Senator Ted Cruz attempts to filibuster for 21 hours to prevent the resolution from going to committee, and then joins the other 99 Senators in voting to send it to committee, where the "defunding" section gets stripped out and sent back to the House.  How ironic that Sen. Cruz reads Green Eggs and Ham during his filibuster.  It is a book about not knocking something until you try it  What does the House do?  They add the defunding back into the resolution and send it back again to the Senate.  A complete exercise in futility.  The result?  A government shut down.

So how will this play out?  As pressure mounts on the Republicans in the House to end the shutdown, they will eventually cave in and send a clean "Continuing Resolution" to the Senate, where it will be passed, and business will continue as usual.  The Republicans that cave in will be at risk of losing their seats, and someone will be scapegoated.  The cost of the shutdown to the government last time worked out to be about 1 Billion Dollars a week.  So for the non-essential government employees, they get screwed, and it is because a small fraction of Republicans in the House of Representatives are demanding things that are against the will of the majority.

Which Republican is going to be deemed "non-essential" and lose his position when forming a coalition to send a clean resolution to the Senate?  Anyone care to make a guess?

[Skinhead]

Refresh my memory, were budgets passed in 2008, 2009, 2010?

[MP]

DaddieO:

The House has passed budgets each of the years Obummer has been in office.  Dingy Harry has refused to even consider them.

Last I looked, Dingy Harry was a Democrat!  So, put the blame where it belongs.  At Dingys feet, and the the other Democrats in the Senate who failed to bring it up!

MP

[Rams]

It's all about Perspective.   I'm not sure how anyone could not see how this as not being a Presidential issue but, OK.    Additionally, just because Obama Care was passed, doesn't mean it's going to stay the law of the land.  

Also, those pesky Reps who are opposing the Obamanation Care, are doing precisely what their constituents voted them into office to do.    Game On.   The Republicans did compromise, they went from defunding Obama Care to just holding up implementation for an additional year.   Obama and Reid won't budge.   So, who's the problem here?

When those Socialist who want to pay for Obama Care stop using other people's money to do it and fund it themselves, then I'm all for it but, this nation can not afford to spend our children's future and anyone that can't see that is apparently smoking some (I assume legalized) good stuff.

[Daddie O]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law, but the bi-cameral congress has to agree on a budget.  The Republicans saying we laid out a budget and you Democrats didn't vote yes for it doesn't mean it's the Democrats fault for us not having a budget.  It is equally or more so the fault of the House Republicans that a budget that was acceptable to all hasn't been offered.

It's like the Senate saying we ordered a decent meal and haven't been served a good meal in a while and the Republicans saying well we offered you this burnt piece of rotten meat, it's your fault for not eating it.  The Senate sends back the burnt rotten meat back to the kitchen, and the chefs put it on another plate and send it back as is, expecting it to be eaten. 

[Rams]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law,.....................

Sir,
What you seem to fail to understand is 1) we realize it is the law of the land, 2) the intent is to change and/or repeal that law.

Just like Jim Crow laws, Voting Laws and Prohibition, laws can be and are changed as the nation and it's leadership figures out it ain't gonna work.   I won't talk down to you as you have to those you want to give civic lessons to but, let's face facts, it's all about perspective.   We differ significantly.

If you wish to support Obama Care, go ahead, I'm all for it but, use your money, not mine.

[hotglue #43]

Recon Wayne is still asleep?

[Daddie O]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law,.....................

Sir,
What you seem to fail to understand is 1) we realize it is the law of the land, 2) the intent is to change and/or repeal that law.

Just like Jim Crow laws, Voting Laws and Prohibition, laws can be and are changed as the nation and it's leadership figures out it ain't gonna work.   I won't talk down to you as you have to those you want to give civic lessons to but, let's face facts, it's all about perspective.   We differ significantly.

If you wish to support Obama Care, go ahead, I'm all for it but, use your money, not mine.

You and your party do not have the power to change the law.  I know that can be frustrating, but that is reality.  The law was passed.  The law is Constitutional.  The law was given another affirmation by the majority in the 2012 election.  You do not have the votes to change the law.  You may not like paying for it.  You don't have a choice.  Open enrollment started today.

[Rams]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law,.....................

Sir,
What you seem to fail to understand is 1) we realize it is the law of the land, 2) the intent is to change and/or repeal that law.

Just like Jim Crow laws, Voting Laws and Prohibition, laws can be and are changed as the nation and it's leadership figures out it ain't gonna work.   I won't talk down to you as you have to those you want to give civic lessons to but, let's face facts, it's all about perspective.   We differ significantly.

If you wish to support Obama Care, go ahead, I'm all for it but, use your money, not mine.

You and your party do not have the power to change the law.  I know that can be frustrating, but that is reality.  The law was passed.  The law is Constitutional.  The law was given another affirmation by the majority in the 2012 election.  You do not have the votes to change the law.  You may not like paying for it.  You don't have a choice.  Open enrollment started today.

Sir,
All of that is understood, you're not speaking to a third grade class room.    But, that law can and will be changed when the pendulum swings back to a more central position or, we'll go broke.   Even the Constitution can be and has been amended, as a civics instructor, I assume you know that.     The next election will determine a great deal.  The Dems are doing their best to paint the Republican Party as evil but, with the exception of the takers, the givers are figuring out what is what.   BTW, my party?   I'm a Conservative, which party is that?

This experiment in Socialism will be the reason for, either a drastic voter swing or a greater division within this country.    All we really have to do is look at where the more socialized states within the US are financially.   Hmmm, where would CA fall?     How much does CA borrow on a daily basis to keep running?    Some entities should be allowed to fail.   Again, just my opinion.   Obviously, we're not going to agree on this or apparently many other topics.    

[cookiedough]

Haven't been following it much, but after watching only part of his speech today,  I concur what others have known all along - that guy is wacked! 

[Daddie O]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law,.....................

Sir,
What you seem to fail to understand is 1) we realize it is the law of the land, 2) the intent is to change and/or repeal that law.

Just like Jim Crow laws, Voting Laws and Prohibition, laws can be and are changed as the nation and it's leadership figures out it ain't gonna work.   I won't talk down to you as you have to those you want to give civic lessons to but, let's face facts, it's all about perspective.   We differ significantly.

If you wish to support Obama Care, go ahead, I'm all for it but, use your money, not mine.

You and your party do not have the power to change the law.  I know that can be frustrating, but that is reality.  The law was passed.  The law is Constitutional.  The law was given another affirmation by the majority in the 2012 election.  You do not have the votes to change the law.  You may not like paying for it.  You don't have a choice.  Open enrollment started today.

Sir,
All of that is understood, you're not speaking to a third grader.    But, that law can and will be changed when the pendulum swings back to a more central position or, we'll go broke.   Even the Constitution can be and has been amended, as a civics instructor, I assume you know that.     The next election will determine a great deal.  The Dems are doing their best to paint the Republican Party as evil but, with the exception of the takers, the givers are figuring out what is what.   BTW, my party?   I'm a Conservative, which party is that?

This experiment in Socialism will be the reason for, either a drastic voter swing or a greater division within this country.    All we really have to do is look at where the more socialized states within the US are financially.   Hmmm, where would CA fall?     How much does CA borrow on a daily basis to keep running?    Some entities should be allowed to fail.   Again, just my opinion.   Obviously, we're not going to agree on this or apparently many other topics.   

Methinks your crystal ball is broken.  Was Social Security repealed?  How about Medicare or Medical?  The Republican party has tried to repeal Obamacare over 40 times, literally, and has failed every single time.  In the process they lost even more seats in both chambers.  Losing seats does not equal gaining power.  I bet you thought that Romney was going to win.  I bet you thought the House would gain in Republican seats, and that the Republicans would now control the Senate as well.  You just can't believe it didn't work out that way, and you try to rationalize it by saying to yourself "Well I guess the takers are outweighing the givers."  I don't think you even understand the ACA.  Please watch this 6 minute video put out by the Kaiser Family Foundation in order to help you understand the ACA better.

http://youtu.be/JZkk6ueZt-U

[Rams]

Daddy O,
You think or assume way too much.     

[Daddie O]

Daddy O,
You think or assume way too much.      

Says the man who thinks Obamacare will be repealed. 

[Rams]

Daddy O,
You think or assume way too much.      

Says the man who thinks Obamacare will be repealed.  

Or go broke.   Again, let's consider CA and how well they are doing financially.    

Or, do I need to site other examples of failed social experiments?

[Daddie O]

Daddy O,
You think or assume way too much.      

Says the man who thinks Obamacare will be repealed.  

Or go broke.   Again, let's consider CA and how well they are doing financially.    

Or, do I need to site other examples of failed social experiments?

Correct me if I am wrong, but you live in KY right?  For every tax dollar KY sends to the Federal Government, KY get $1.51 cents back.  Conversely, California gets back $0.78 for every dollar sent to the Federal Government.  So who is paying your way KY?  KY paid $23,150,555,000 in taxes to the Federal Govt.  Conversely, CA paid $313,998,874,000 to the Federal Government.  Which state is carrying the other?  Without CA paying your state's way, KY couldn't even provide basic services.  Maybe KY is the failed social experiment.  If CA was keeping that $313 billion dollars or even getting back closer to $1 for every dollar it sends it wouldn't be in a 16 billion dollar a year deficit would it.  Maybe you lazy Kentuckians should get jobs and pay your own way.  Buncha takers.  It takes some nerve to have CA paying your way as you point a finger and say see they have a budget shortfall.  Because CA isn't only paying KY's way, it's paying most of the "red" states way, TX excluded.  In fact TX is the only "red" state that sends more than it takes.

If California were it's own country (which I'm sure many of you would like), it would have a huge budget surplus.  The problem is the Federal Government wouldn't be able to afford to subsidize the red states.

[Rams]

I seem to have touched a nerve.   

Enjoy living off of your children's and grand children's work.   We'll do what we can to change that future.    As I said previously, those Reps are doing precisely what they were elected to do.   We'll do everything we can to get more of them elected.   And BTW, I'm a registered Democrat now. 

[Daddie O]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

[Patrick]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

This from a blue state that is in debt $618 billion.

[pitbull]

As a non American I cannot believe what is happening in your country. I won't even pretend I understand the situation. I don't really want a full explanation on everything but why has your government closed all the National Parks, Cemeteries and anything else with National in front of it.

On our TV news they showed an English WW11 vet that had travelled 3500 miles to visit the WW11 Cemetry to find it had barracades all around and he couldn't get in to pay his respects.
They also showed a beach which was closed off.

Why all the closures, whats the point.

[Robert]

I would hope the government would shut down long enough to for us to elect people with the ability to run the government. Obama is building a personal army for the purpose of continuation of government in the event of a emergency but maybe we need to just let it go and worry about the people who made the government, you and me. Then we could go back to the old ways of government by and for the people not people by and for the government. The longer the government shuts down the more we see how unnecessary they really are. I am sorry for the ones here who have jobs that are not getting paid also and believe maybe they should sue since the government violated a employment contract with them.

[MP]

As a non American I cannot believe what is happening in your country. I won't even pretend I understand the situation. I don't really want a full explanation on everything but why has your government closed all the National Parks, Cemeteries and anything else with National in front of it.

On our TV news they showed an English WW11 vet that had travelled 3500 miles to visit the WW11 Cemetry to find it had barracades all around and he couldn't get in to pay his respects.
They also showed a beach which was closed off.

Why all the closures, whats the point.

Why the barracades around walk in monuments?  Because Obummer wants to get as many people mad as possible.  Did the same thing with sequester.  Close things that hurt the MOST people.  The Dems want it that way.

[Rams]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

I'm thinking there will be some sort of compromise.    I'm hoping it includes some sort of delay of Obama Care.    Similar to an old commercial I remember about auto maintenance.    Pay me now or pay me later.    Most Conservative folks think we should pay our own way and not pass the buck on to future generations.   So yeah, I do believe those reps are doing what they can to represent their constituents.    They have to work within the rules each house has.    When you're dealing with people like the leadership in the House and the Senate and the Liberal media, it ain't gonna be easy or pretty.  

In reference to your data on tax contributions, I won't bother to debate such points, there are too many ways to make stats say what ever the person wants them to state.    But since you're so proficient at these things, tell me.   How much money is Kentucky borrowing on a daily basis to keep operating versus the amount of money California or any other socialized state such as California.    Don't get me wrong, I'll agree Kentucky is not the epitome of financial awareness.    But, if you're honest, then even you must recognize a social agenda is extremely expensive.  

[f6john]

    I for one am glad that Daddie-O is giving us this civics lesson. It does give us hicks from Kentucky some insight into the highly superior mind of the elite ruling class. I'm sure his position is exactly what our founding fathers had in mind. He could have been George Washington's Chief of Staff.

     Ok, now everbody shut up and fall in line, it's the law, we won, you lost, the bread line is just around the corner.

[musclehead]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

nothing quite like ramping up the rhetoric eh?
the dems NEVER did any gerrymandering when they were in power  gimme a break.
it sucks they are in power in the house huh? now you have to deal with them.
"hostage takers" "threatening to destroy America's credit rating"  your media bias is showing 

I really think SOME republicans are there in washington to do the bidding of the people that elected them

[musclehead]

Refresh my memory, were budgets passed in 2008, 2009, 2010?

none in the house or senate   Daddie-o won't answer that question because it makes his dems look bad 

[musclehead]

Daddie-o ... how many budget bills has the house sent to the senate only to be tabled by whore house harry?

[musclehead]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law, but the bi-cameral congress has to agree on a budget.  The Republicans saying we laid out a budget and you Democrats didn't vote yes for it doesn't mean it's the Democrats fault for us not having a budget.  It is equally or more so the fault of the House Republicans that a budget that was acceptable to all hasn't been offered.

It's like the Senate saying we ordered a decent meal and haven't been served a good meal in a while and the Republicans saying well we offered you this burnt piece of rotten meat, it's your fault for not eating it.  The Senate sends back the burnt rotten meat back to the kitchen, and the chefs put it on another plate and send it back as is, expecting it to be eaten. 

uh yes it is the senates fault if they will not even bring a house bill up for discussion. nice try though

[BF]

If all of the evil Republicans would simply disappear from the face of the earth, then DaddieO could live forever in a democratic utopian paradise......just like Detroit. 

[.]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

nothing quite like ramping up the rhetoric eh?
the dems NEVER did any gerrymandering when they were in power  gimme a break.
it sucks they are in power in the house huh? now you have to deal with them.
"hostage takers" "threatening to destroy America's credit rating"  your media bias is showing 

I really think SOME republicans are there in washington to do the bidding of the people that elected them

Actually, bias is showing all over the place on all sides of the issue. If you assign pejorative labels such as liberal, Rethuglican, Halfrican, Obummer, Teapothead, etc., you are telegraphing your bias by tossing insulting language into the argument. That works well if you want an echo chamber but tends to brand the user as unserious in an open discussion.

A very telling consideration is the number of people who oppose the new healthcare law not only along party lines but depending upon how the question is phrased. More people are in favor of the Affordable Care Act than are in favor of Obamacare, even though they are the exact same thing.

Another telling consideration is the hardline Republican opposition to a health insurance mandate now when the idea originated with the Heritage Foundation (a right-wing think tank) in 1993 and was adopted by Governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts and seems to be pretty popular. The insurance mandate idea came about as a way to combat the idea of a single payer system (which actually is socialized medicine) that was pushed by Ted Kennedy for years. In 1993, forcing people to purchase health insurance was considered a move toward personal responsibility and 20 years later it's defined by the same people as Socialism.

As far as who will and who won't negotiate with whom, I'm sure there is enough responsibility to spread around but a link to Addicting Info (complete with Fox News video) puts an interesting perspective on the issue: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/10/01/sean-hannity-fox-news-breaking/

All of this information is out there. You only have to look for it. Have fun boys and girls, my arm is finally healed enough that I can get on the Phat Gurl and leave politics behind for awhile, which is exactly what I intend to do. 

[Rams]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law, but the bi-cameral congress has to agree on a budget.  The Republicans saying we laid out a budget and you Democrats didn't vote yes for it doesn't mean it's the Democrats fault for us not having a budget.  It is equally or more so the fault of the House Republicans that a budget that was acceptable to all hasn't been offered.

It's like the Senate saying we ordered a decent meal and haven't been served a good meal in a while and the Republicans saying well we offered you this burnt piece of rotten meat, it's your fault for not eating it.  The Senate sends back the burnt rotten meat back to the kitchen, and the chefs put it on another plate and send it back as is, expecting it to be eaten. 

uh yes it is the senates fault if they will not even bring a house bill up for discussion. nice try though

One has to wonder why Harry Reid won't even bring the House Bill up for discussion.   Personally, I believe he knows he has Dems in his ranks that won't follow his lead and he'll have to answer questions he's not prepared to answer.    But, that's just my opinion.

[musclehead]

The fed has to borrow money to pay for you slackers in the red states that can't pay their own way.  The only reason the Republicans have any power at all is because of all the gerrymandering they have done.  You really think the Republicans were sent to Washington to hold America hostage, threatening to destroy America's credit rating, and putting federal employees out of work, and promising to release it if the majority give in to their list of demands?  Maybe it is so, but Americans don't negotiate with hostage takers.

nothing quite like ramping up the rhetoric eh?
the dems NEVER did any gerrymandering when they were in power  gimme a break.
it sucks they are in power in the house huh? now you have to deal with them.
"hostage takers" "threatening to destroy America's credit rating"  your media bias is showing 

I really think SOME republicans are there in washington to do the bidding of the people that elected them

Actually, bias is showing all over the place on all sides of the issue. If you assign pejorative labels such as liberal, Rethuglican, Halfrican, Obummer, Teapothead, etc., you are telegraphing your bias by tossing insulting language into the argument. That works well if you want an echo chamber but tends to brand the user as unserious in an open discussion.

A very telling consideration is the number of people who oppose the new healthcare law not only along party lines but depending upon how the question is phrased. More people are in favor of the Affordable Care Act than are in favor of Obamacare, even though they are the exact same thing.

Another telling consideration is the hardline Republican opposition to a health insurance mandate now when the idea originated with the Heritage Foundation (a right-wing think tank) in 1993 and was adopted by Governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts and seems to be pretty popular. The insurance mandate idea came about as a way to combat the idea of a single payer system (which actually is socialized medicine) that was pushed by Ted Kennedy for years. In 1993, forcing people to purchase health insurance was considered a move toward personal responsibility and 20 years later it's defined by the same people as Socialism.

As far as who will and who won't negotiate with whom, I'm sure there is enough responsibility to spread around but a link to Addicting Info (complete with Fox News video) puts an interesting perspective on the issue: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/10/01/sean-hannity-fox-news-breaking/

All of this information is out there. You only have to look for it. Have fun boys and girls, my arm is finally healed enough that I can get on the Phat Gurl and leave politics behind for awhile, which is exactly what I intend to do. 

I'm staying away from the perjoratives and leavig the rhetoric to those who are showing their true colors. remember when gabby giffords was shot down the prez told us all to take it down a notch. well it didn't last long.
and yes unversal healthcare was embraced early on by the right, but then they looked into the constituitionality of it and found none. requiring someone to buy something is not in the constituition.
lying about it saying it's a fine, and then argueing it in the supreme court that it's a tax just makes those who support it dupes for big government.