who's at fault?

[Liberty Bell]

Don't know if any of you saw this one yet...

News paper report and video seem to conflict just a little bit...

Video
http://www.stuntbums.com/articles/2473/range-rover-runs-over-bikers-nyc

Newspaper
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585

I kinda' think that the bikers were in the wrong initially.
But, if the guy was in fear for his life like he claims, why didn't he make a 911 call?
Why didn't he take the first exit and look for a cop(s)?
Why didn't he turn his flashers on?

Instead of assaulting him, they should have followed and one of the passengers been on the phone with police telling them where the hit and run vehicle was for apprehension. By assaulting them that way, they have given him a defense. His lawyer will claim he was justified in running from them.

The zip-splats have through their stupidity have again given ALL bikers a bad name..

Some of the comments are interesting.

[BF]

GOPR2900

[old2soon]

I M H O and please remember it's MY opinion. The first "rider" that brake checked the S U V was WRONG. The pack "mentality" took over and they created the trouble they were looking for.  What in the frikkin h-ll were the zip splat riders thinking???  Oh-wait-they WEREN'T.  THINKING that is. Just because they are on two wheels don't mean they SHOULD be on two wheels.  RIDE SAFE.

[donaldcc]

  Pretty shocking! 

http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/bikers-attack-suv-after-driver-rams-riders/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJW8Up65og#ws

[mmurffy03]

I think I saw every kind of bike from scooters to 250 enduro and up I guess it was a open minded gang if you want to call it a gang but as usual mob mentality took over its on video so let a judge decide

[Serk]

But, if the guy was in fear for his life like he claims, why didn't he make a 911 call?

According to this article - http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/bikers-attack-suv-after-driver-rams-riders/ he made a 911 call at the beginning of this. The assumption that seems to be implied from the article is that the thugs saw him making the call and that's why they decided to swarm him.

Watching the video, especially the end where they guy is being assaulted and pulled from his vehicle, is a classic example of the case for CCW. If someone's trying to yank you from your vehicle it's generally a good idea to stop them using whatever means are necessary.

[art]

Those bikers were assholes.The suv driver had every right to protect himself and his family.When he was stopped and trapped he should have used the suv to back out of danger any way he could and gone to the police or fire dept for help.Damn biker like that give all biker a bad name.I have been involved in a bad situation with biker road rage in Az. Some friends were chasing an auto driver and screaming and terrorizing him for a stupid reason.I backed way off and had nothing to do with it.It is so dangerous for everybody. On the other hand I have chased by cage drivers for just being passed.There are sure lots of idiots out there.I'll bet that suv driver wishes he had a gun for protection.Oh I forgot it illegal in New York.

[Hooter]

   Kind of bunch I'd l ike to be affililitated with, not..    The SUV was in the center lane and "appeared" to be minding his own business? But, Had there been some type of verbal confrontation? The biker "brake checked and got hit, IMHO, his fault. Then the mob mentality took over. Lucky the way they were riding more weren't hurt.

[Momz]

On Thursday 9/36/13, I had SUV driver deliberately try to run me off the road in Fostoria OH. A motorist in a Chevy Lumina caught up with the SUV and signaled that he had a cell phone, (witnessed by my wife). The SUV quickly turned off of old US23 and on to a side street.

My wife was behind me and to my left, she saw the whole incident but did not get the SUV's plate number. I was in a state of shock and needed to stop and compose myself. After a short deep breathing session we continued on to the "Meeting of the Minds" international motorcycle conference in Columbus OH.

Motorcycles never come out ahead when in a conflict with a car, SUV, pick-up, etc.
Please never ride alone if you can help it.

[Gryphon Rider]

From the video, it looks to me like a bunch of thugs with a mob mentality terrorizing a father who did the only thing he could in a panic situation to get away from his attackers.

[alph]

just to let Mr. Lien know one thing about motor cycles.  all he had to do was stay on the highway for about 200 miles and NONE of those idiots could have stayed with him, they'd all run out of fuel by then!! 

i'm 100% behind the actions of the SUV driver, had he lived in the country, there'd be a few dead cyclists 'cause you don't know who's got a concealed carry license now a days!!

[..]

They should have just called 911 and followed the vehicle until the LEO's turned up.

Wonder how many had licence and insurance.

The mob becomes judge, jury and executioner? Punks.

[musclehead]

oh look a bunch of mad max wannabes 

they are lucky there were no weapons in the SUV....

[G-Man]

just to let Mr. Lien know one thing about motor cycles.  all he had to do was stay on the highway for about 200 miles and NONE of those idiots could have stayed with him, they'd all run out of fuel by then!! 

i'm 100% behind the actions of the SUV driver, had he lived in the country, there'd be a few dead cyclists 'cause you don't know who's got a concealed carry license now a days!!

I've driven that road at least 100 times in the past 15 - 20 yrs.  The SUV made a mistake right at the very end.  He should have stayed left and went under that bridge looking thingy instead of staying right and hitting the surface street where he was either gonna hit a light or traffic.  Had he gone the way I go home, he would have been on the NYS thruway north with nothing to stop him until a toll in Yonkers and if he had EZ pass he was home free until Harriman.  The bikes would have run out of gas but it would have been a hell of a scary ride until they did.

[Romeo]

In my opinion, there is no reason, none, for anyone on any number of wheels to ever act the way the assholes on the bikes did. Ever. Period. If anyone here, thinks different, well that's your right, but again in my opinion, if that's the case, then you are part of the problem. The assholes on the bikes set all the work that people like Momz does, back by years. Truly a shame.

[Oss]

Gary I agree with you
and I have been on that road thousands of times
too many thousands of time lol mostly going 10 mph in traffic

The SUV driver, having made the call to 911 had no right to expect help from NYPD on a surface street
his only hope was riding as fast as possible  Also car doors make a dandy weapon against a bike the bikers should be happy he didnt use it as a deadly weapon

Just a guess on my part but he used the right lane so his family wasnt close to the bikes cant fault his logic there  but I woulda stayed left lane so I could miss any GWB traffic at the cross bronx exit

Hindsight is easy but IMHO the SUV driver should have stated his intent to stay on the road until the toll for the Henry Hudson Bridge and ask for motor units to be at the toll

I would not stop for the toll unless I saw police with guns out  They have never been there for me and I dont have any reason to believe they would have for the SUV driver



Both ground zero rides I have been on the NYPD and state police had every road closed and all exits closed

This was an outgoing gone bad because the people in charge failed to give instructions and failed to control their own
We have not heard the last of this by a long shot

And all bikers are gonna be painted with this brush, thanks assholes from new rochelle

[Gavin_Sons]

Yeah, my car would have been turned into a deadly weapon real quick. Atleast would have disabled all of their bikes. And to begin with they were all acting stupid on the interstate. More worried about what everyone else was doing and not paying attention to what their selfs were doing. Im guessing it was a black biker gang.

[Jeff K]

But, if the guy was in fear for his life like he claims, why didn't he make a 911 call?

According to this article - http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/bikers-attack-suv-after-driver-rams-riders/ he made a 911 call at the beginning of this. The assumption that seems to be implied from the article is that the thugs saw him making the call and that's why they decided to swarm him.

Watching the video, especially the end where they guy is being assaulted and pulled from his vehicle, is a classic example of the case for CCW. If someone's trying to yank you from your vehicle it's generally a good idea to stop them using whatever means are necessary.

One mag wouldn't have been enough. There was a lot of targets.

[ValkISDan]

Unless there is something huge that adds to what started this confrontation the bikers "or thugs" are 100% at fault. I would have taken out more of them if I felt as threatened as the driver of the SUV appeared to be.

[The Anvil]

The riders were lucky. I would not have been so forgiving. Threaten my family and I'll back over you to make a point.

[gregc]

   I have to go back to the start.  How about if the Asshole in the SUV wasn't tailgating the bikers to begin with.  The biker wouldn't have brake checked the SUV driver.   Plus after an accident he should have pulled over to check for injuries to the biker rider.   Then I agree that mob thinking took over.

[Gavin_Sons]

How about that white bike cut him off then brake checked him. You didnt see the bike pull in front of him? This is what happens when you have a bunch of uneducated lower class citizens on bikes in groups, they think they own the ground you walk on and dont respect anything. What ya wanna bet most of them live off the system?

[Raider]

   I have to go back to the start.  How about if the Asshole in the SUV wasn't tailgating the bikers to begin with.  The biker wouldn't have brake checked the SUV driver.   Plus after an accident he should have pulled over to check for injuries to the biker rider.   Then I agree that mob thinking took over.

Ridiculous.  The bikers swarmed all around him.  The guy didn't "brake check<" (tap the brakes to show lights so a driver backs off).  He jammed the brakes. 

I'm shocked to see riders take the bikers' side in this. 

[Art708]

The riders were lucky. I would not have been so forgiving. Threaten my family and I'll back over you to make a point.

    I agree with you Anvil! I think I would have left a bunch of motorcycles scattered around that highway.

[Serk]

Followup, 1 arrested so far:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/

[Liberty Bell]

It think there were a number of mistakes made by all parties.
Unfortunately, each mistake lead to an escallation on the part of others and it spiraled..

[john]

the first guy looks to be making an attempt to hold the lane for his group 
he when waaay too far .         
brain dead kool-aid drinkers believe that they have no limitations     
they do not realize responsibly         
the mob got what they wanted   ???
and then some       
$.02

[Rams]

Watched the video three times.   No doubt mob mentality took over.    When bad judgment combine with youthful "bad ass" attitudes, some thing bad is gonna happen.    Obviously the brake check bandit is the jerk that started this lynch mob.    

I understand that "bikers" scare some folks.    Heck, cagers scare me but when that many bikes surround a lone vehicle, it would scare me.   Self defense and defense for my family would be fore most in my mind.   Jerks like the helmet bang'n asswipe in the video give us all a bad name.   I hope they crush his bike and put his butt in jail for a while.   He may not be so bold after Big Joe makes him his bitch.

Sorry for the profane terms but, this ticks me off.   Feel free to eliminate this post if it violates some rule.

[old2soon]

According to the follow up article the zip splat driver that got run over by the s u v MAY not walk again. Had that crowd of zip splats NOT have been suffering from a most SEVERE case of cranial rectal inversion NOBODY might/would have been injured. But than again I might could be wrong. Watch the sumbitch what got run over sue the guy in the s u v. This incident is FAR from over. Do I feel sorry for the guy that got run over?? In this one incident-given the circumstances and the guy was protecting his family-no-I DO NOT. Why?? Cause in that set of circumstances-I would have done the same damn thing. IF they charge that guy in the s u v I M H O it WILL send the wrong message to the zip splats. I feel they need to TRY to round up as many as possible of the zip splats-I simply REFUSE to acknowledge them as "riders" as it demeans the very description to call them the r word-and try them for what ever the law allows in N Y. I hope and pray that New Yorks finest is at their VERY best in this investigation.  RIDE SAFE.

[Skinhead]

I see it as no different than the guy you shot while he was robbing your house sueing you because he was paralyzed.  It's not right, but it happens.  Don't know if the paralyzed guy was the break checker or the guy the SUV ran over or if they were in fact the same indiviual. 

SUV Guy was defending his family, he used a weapon (no different than a handgun) If the guy he run over  by SUV guy was just stopped due to traffic and waiting for it to clear, SUV guy could be in trouble.  If he was stopped to prevent SUV guy from proceeding, he could be an accessory. 


It's unfortunate either way, and another reason I don't like to ride in large groups.

[Mapper]

SUV Guy was defending his family, he used a weapon (no different than a handgun) If the guy he run over  by SUV guy was just stopped due to traffic and waiting for it to clear, SUV guy could be in trouble.  If he was stopped to prevent SUV guy from proceeding, he could be an accessory. 

But it is different than a handgun: the SUV wasn't only used as a weapon, but a means of escape for him and his family.

This is sad and scary.  Even if the cager was driving like an idiot before the brake check, he should have just been passed up and avoided.                  

[Gavin_Sons]

One of the bikers was arrested for causing the initial crash and confrontation.  They are called I think hollywood stunts. Bunch og crotch rockets, dirt bikes, and fourwheelers get together to take over time square and do stunts.

[G-Man]

The bikers swarmed all around him.  The guy didn't "brake check<" (tap the brakes to show lights so a driver backs off).  He jammed the brakes. 

I'm shocked to see riders take the bikers' side in this. 

Exactly.  First of all, they weren't riding in any formal configuration, they were splitting lanes, they were changing lanes, there were 3 bikes in the right side of the left lane and bikes in the left side of the right lane, all "swarming" around him like bees.  Then one on the left starts talking to him, then proceeds to get in front of him to try and stop him or slow him down but he brakes too hard and the SUV has no time to react.  

Something happens because there is a break in the action.  All traffic stops and you can see there are a crap load of bikes.  Then the SUV does what it's designed to do, roll over something.  He must have been spooked or something thrown or aggressive moves made because he rolls over at least 2 bikes with riders on them that I was able to see.  

And then the chase was on.  As far as I'm concerned, the SUV driver did the right thing.  Poor judgment (or not knowing the roads) at the very end only prolonged what was going to happen had he not tried to get away.

I hate that his kids had to see their Dad get beat up like that.  Something they'll never be able to forget.

[Liberty Bell]

News tonight just told that they are investigating the driver of the SUV for actions prior to what's shown on the video.

More that comes out about the group of bikers, the less impressed I am with them..

[Varmintmist]

at about second #16 it becomes immaterial what the SUV driver was doing before that.
Guy on white bike invades his lane on the left then gets in front of the suv, by like 3 feet, then drops off the throttle and or brake checks him. Suv stops, a hundred bikes come to a halt, 20 of the riders approach the SUV.

If if was me, its game on and any that came close after that are targets. The rest wouldnt get through the debris.

With the mob mentality that comes from being entitled to being as big of a jack... as you want to and the fact that young people are playing knockout type games... I am going to be the one going home.

[Momz]

http://thedailystar.com/community-news-network/x2112885086/Mass-man-paralyzed-in-motorcycle-road-rage-incident-mother-says

God help us all.

[Oss]

Why dont I feel bad that he may never walk again?

Really?

A senseless mob, a terrified family, no winners

[Rams]

http://thedailystar.com/community-news-network/x2112885086/Mass-man-paralyzed-in-motorcycle-road-rage-incident-mother-says

God help us all.

Being, acting and riding Stupid have always had consequences.   I hate that this young man may never walk again but, God gave us a brain to make considerations and decisions with.   Not using that brain almost always results in bad things.

[specialdose]

In protecting your wife and children it is ON. Had that been here in Ga. there might have been a lot of 45 casings and zip- splats laying on the ground when it all ended. Just saying ! ! !

[Liberty Bell]

I'd like to see an interview with the organizer of this "ride".
All the TV news shows are villifiying motorcycle "gangs" now.
Some gal on the news telling all about motorcycle gangs and all.
Didn't look like she'd ever been on a bike...