removing the flag from the soldier's monument.

[fudgie]

Not sure how the flag represents slavery when it didnt debut till the war started. Am I correct? This debate makes me mad. Trying to be politly speaking, its ok for others to celebrate their heritage but its not ok for others too do the same, esp if your white.

[..]

The politicians do what politicians do.

Try to ensure they get reelected.

Weasels.

[Serk]

Now that the "That's offensive!" train has left the station, where will it end?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/23/mitch-mcconnell-remove-jefferson-davis-statue-from-kentucky-capitol/

[Lyn-Del]

To many native Americans (That's Indians to you and me), and Japanese Americans (Think FDR's Japanese internment camps during WWII) and I'm sure many other groups, the US flag is a symbol of murder and oppression.

Should we take it down too?

Or... can we look past the bad, while acknowledging it, and celebrate the good things that flag stands for instead?

Don't give them any ideas.  As it is, when POTUS was elected, I put up a flag pole in my yard.  I wanted it to be grandfathered if he outlawed them;  after all, he is rarely seen with the flag ...

[Bighead]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/south-carolina-lawmakers-move-debate-confederate-flag-removal-n380236

The only stupid one in that Video JOE was the 60 something year old white guy the First Lady in the video had it right.

[therapist]

The flag was first flown over the state Capitol dome (passed by the Democratic Legislature) in 1962 to mark the centennial of the start of the Civil War, but many saw it as a reaction to the civil-rights movement and school desegregation. That last part is the problem. Some see it as a passive/aggressive  pro-racism symbol.

[PAVALKER]

[Bonzo]

The politicians do what politicians do.

Try to ensure they get reelected.

Weasels.

    Rarely do I agree with your political statements.  Here I do. Term Limits and a ban on them and staff lobbying .

[dreamaker]

I guess I am a northern boy or a Yankee as they call us. When I see the Confederate Flag, I think of southern hospitality, fried chicken, chunky grandma you want to hug, flowing fields of produce, cold glass of ice tea or lemonade.  Now if that image I get is offensive, I guess I am a racist.

The thing that bothers me out of all this is, you have got these factions slowly taking our rights away. "You can't say that" "You can't show that" "You can't think that way" "I is OK for us the do and say that but you can not, it is offensive to us" " It is your obligation to do that, you owe us".
Its not the stupid request to remove, symbols and objects that bother me, it is the hidden agendas behind them that concerns me.

The past is in the past, yes, bad thing did happen. Learn from the past, don't live and don't dwell in the bad thing, that never happen to you. I live in the present, and learn from the past, and look for a better future.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I guess I am a northern boy or a Yankee as they call us. When I see the Confederate Flag, I think of southern hospitality, fried chicken, chunky grandma you want to hug, flowing fields of produce, cold glass of ice tea or lemonade.  Now if that image I get is offensive, I guess I am a racist.

The thing that bothers me out of all this is, you have got these factions slowly taking our rights away. "You can't say that" "You can't show that" "You can't think that way" "I is OK for us the do and say that but you can not, it is offensive to us" " It is your obligation to do that, you owe us".
Its not the stupid request to remove, symbols and objects that bother me, it is the hidden agendas behind them that concerns me.

The past is in the past, yes, bad thing did happen. Learn from the past, don't live and don't dwell in the bad thing, that never happen to you. I live in the present, and learn from the past, and look for a better future.

I haven't seen or heard anyone saying you can't have the symbol of the confederate battle flag in your home, car, person, etc. What I have seen and heard is them wanting to remove it from govt. places. Also I guess we all see different things when we see the battle flag. My first thought is the Civil War not fried chicken.

[MP]

Just a question, If a German immigrant who served in WWII, as a German soldier died and was buried in a US cemetery, would you have a problem with the German battle flag of WWII on his grave?

I would not.

You say "battle flag".  I hear that about the Confederate Flag too.  "Battle Flag" of the Confederacy.  What is that?  Did they have another flag for the Confederacy?  Being from ND, I have not heard of another. Never heard the Germans had a "Battle Flag" that was different than the countries flag.

If it is their only flag, why is it referred to as a "Battle Flag"?  If so, would that not also make the US Flag, our "Battle Flag"?  A term I have never heard of.

Thanks for the info from you Southerners.

MP

[dreamaker]

I guess I am a northern boy or a Yankee as they call us. When I see the Confederate Flag, I think of southern hospitality, fried chicken, chunky grandma you want to hug, flowing fields of produce, cold glass of ice tea or lemonade.  Now if that image I get is offensive, I guess I am a racist.

The thing that bothers me out of all this is, you have got these factions slowly taking our rights away. "You can't say that" "You can't show that" "You can't think that way" "I is OK for us the do and say that but you can not, it is offensive to us" " It is your obligation to do that, you owe us".
Its not the stupid request to remove, symbols and objects that bother me, it is the hidden agendas behind them that concerns me.

The past is in the past, yes, bad thing did happen. Learn from the past, don't live and don't dwell in the bad thing, that never happen to you. I live in the present, and learn from the past, and look for a better future.

I haven't seen or heard anyone saying you can't have the symbol of the confederate battle flag in your home, car, person, etc. What I have seen and heard is them wanting to remove it from govt. places. Also I guess we all see different things when we see the battle flag. My first thought is the Civil War not fried chicken.

I guess it is all how you interpret things, I was not in the Civil War, I don't feel the anger, sorry I missed that one. But maybe when you look for fault in people and things, you see the Civil War, but maybe if you think of just moving on, and not look at things always negatively, you see fried chicken. Its you choice, but not my problem!!!

[..]

Today the flag

Tomorrow the stone memorial?

And then.........................?

If carried through to the end who would know of the "Confederacy" in 200 years?

[G-Man]

Just a question, If a German immigrant who served in WWII, as a German soldier died and was buried in a US cemetery, would you have a problem with the German battle flag of WWII on his grave?

I would not.

You say "battle flag".  I hear that about the Confederate Flag too.  "Battle Flag" of the Confederacy.  What is that?  Did they have another flag for the Confederacy?  Being from ND, I have not heard of another. Never heard the Germans had a "Battle Flag" that was different than the countries flag.

If it is their only flag, why is it referred to as a "Battle Flag"?  If so, would that not also make the US Flag, our "Battle Flag"?  A term I have never heard of.

Thanks for the info from you Southerners.

MP

Confederate National Flag:


Confederate Battle Flag:

[dreamaker]

Think about the thing in the past you have already lost, They say Free Speech, but Politically Correctness trumps that, you say "in God we trust" and then you have Mikey Weinstein to trump that. First the military, next the people!  Martial change is not going to hit you like a two by four, it will consume you like creeping black mold, slow and hard to detect. The Confederate Flag issue is just one droplet of that. I just say, take a moment and think about it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Today the flag

Tomorrow the stone memorial?

And then.........................?

If carried through to the end who would know of the "Confederacy" in 200 years?

BOOKS ?

[Serk]

Today the flag

Tomorrow the stone memorial?

And then.........................?

If carried through to the end who would know of the "Confederacy" in 200 years?

BOOKS ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I guess it is all how you interpret things, I was not in the Civil War, I don't feel the anger, sorry I missed that one. But maybe when you look for fault in people and things, you see the Civil War, but maybe if you think of just moving on, and not look at things always negatively, you see fried chicken. Its you choice, but not my problem!!!
[/quote]  I guess I need an attitude adjustment. From now on when I'm watching a movie with them charging into battle with the flag I'll try to think of fried chicken 

[dreamaker]

I guess it is all how you interpret things, I was not in the Civil War, I don't feel the anger, sorry I missed that one. But maybe when you look for fault in people and things, you see the Civil War, but maybe if you think of just moving on, and not look at things always negatively, you see fried chicken. Its you choice, but not my problem!!!

  I guess I need an attitude adjustment. From now on when I'm watching a movie with them charging into battle with the flag I'll try to think of fried chicken 
[/quote]

Actually, When I wrote that, I was refer to myself. But if you choose to fell that way, that is your choice.

[Serk]

The US secedes from an oppressive government (Britain), everyone claps and cheers.
The CSA tries to secede from an oppressive government not even a century later, and their failure is celebrated.

Winners write the history books.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I guess it is all how you interpret things, I was not in the Civil War, I don't feel the anger, sorry I missed that one. But maybe when you look for fault in people and things, you see the Civil War, but maybe if you think of just moving on, and not look at things always negatively, you see fried chicken. Its you choice, but not my problem!!!

  I guess I need an attitude adjustment. From now on when I'm watching a movie with them charging into battle with the flag I'll try to think of fried chicken 

Actually, When I wrote that, I was refer to myself. But if you choose to fell that way, that is your choice.
[/quote]Hmmm. I don't FELL that way. But I do like fried chicken though 

[The emperor has no clothes]

The US secedes from an oppressive government (Britain), everyone claps and cheers.
The CSA tries to secede from an oppressive government not even a century later, and their failure is celebrated.

Winners write the history books.

I don't know anybody that celebrates the loss of a million lives.

[Wizzard]

To me (and I am a Northerner) its a reminder of the worst war our country ever fought. But,that's just my opinion. 

[Valkorado]

Looks like even Lynyrd Skynyrd has been feeling the PC pressure, guess even as far back as 2012 they were shying away from the use of what I always considered the ol' Dixie flag.  


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/23/decline-of-confederate-flag-in-pop-culture/29167209/


Reason I thought of them is I had all their LPs, and several had images of the flag on them.  I definitely thought of it more as a symbol of Southern pride rather than a display of racism.  Regardless, as others have said, removing this flag won't remove the lunatics from our society.  It surely won't wipe the flag from our history.

I guess the powers that be will decide what's right and just for us all [/sarcasm font].  Too bad they're not more concerned about seeing more of these ones flying around everywhere.




Oh yeah, I forgot.  They're encouraging those ones, they even fly at some public schools and facilities.

[Serk]

as others have said, removing this flag won't remove the lunatics from our society.  It surely won't wipe the flag from our history.

The irony is this censorship will empower the lunatics and give them another recruiting tool bringing more to their cause... 

[dreamaker]

as others have said, removing this flag won't remove the lunatics from our society.  It surely won't wipe the flag from our history.

The irony is this censorship will empower the lunatics and give them another recruiting tool bringing more to their cause... 

+1

[czuch]

Tucson International Airport has the Mexican flag flyin proudly.
3 poles, US,Az,M.
Kinda offends me. I'll just bet they dont have Old Glory flappin in their breeze.
AND, its a convienient smoke screen. obamatrade passed and nobody's yammerin about that.

[Serk]

Have we lost our *($)@#$@ minds?!??!!

I thought this news article was from The Onion at first!

You have 120 days to turn in your thought crime license plates that you paid extra for, or your vehicle's operation will be disbarred by the party. Now carry on comrade.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29397027/mcauliffe-confederate-license-plates

[Serk]

Everytime I think this can't possibly get any more ridiculous... it does...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/general-lee-from-dukes-of-hazzard-losing-its-122294326432.html

[Serk]

To many native Americans (That's Indians to you and me), and Japanese Americans (Think FDR's Japanese internment camps during WWII) and I'm sure many other groups, the US flag is a symbol of murder and oppression.

Should we take it down too?

Or... can we look past the bad, while acknowledging it, and celebrate the good things that flag stands for instead?

Don't give them any ideas.  As it is, when POTUS was elected, I put up a flag pole in my yard.  I wanted it to be grandfathered if he outlawed them;  after all, he is rarely seen with the flag ...

When life imitates parody (This is from a few months back)

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/11/professors-us-flag-symbolizes-racism-should-not-be-displayed-on-campus.html

[dreamaker]

Hypothetically, I can view this as testing the waters for other things to come. Seeing how the public response to it, and advance to the next step.  What I would do, is send a polite email to my state  representatives, asking questions concerning issues, that some people find disturbing. That way they know we are watching, and maybe on election day, we may keep their response in mind.

 Now we had Columbine  shooting, and everyone became an expert after the fact, the do's and don't's, did it change anything, "NO". So the flag issue won't change anything either. Like I said before the people that B*tch the most, usually are the ones to contribute the least. Get with the 21st Century!!!

[solo1]

What a bunch of crap!!!!   Idiots, politicians (same, maybe), are all demanding that we  remove an important part of HISTORY. Now they want to remove statues of Robert E Lee, Burford, Jefferson Davis, etc.  Next will be the Gettysburg Address because it's a reminder of our Civil war.

This reminds me of the general attack on police departments throughout the US..  Stupid, stupid people who don't realize (or maybe they do) what they are doing. I am particularly pissed at all those pols that are jumping on the bandwagon for votes.

Because of this we are fast becoming a divided nation.

[dreamaker]

What a bunch of crap!!!!   Idiots, politicians (same, maybe), are all demanding that we  remove an important part of HISTORY. Now they want to remove statues of Robert E Lee, Burford, Jefferson Davis, etc.  Next will be the Gettysburg Address because it's a reminder of our Civil war.

This reminds me of the general attack on police departments throughout the US..  Stupid, stupid people who don't realize (or maybe they do) what they are doing. I am particularly pissed at all those pols that are jumping on the bandwagon for votes.

Because of this we are fast becoming a divided nation.


It don't matter if they are stupid or idiots, they are driving the bus we are sitting in, if you get my meaning. 

[Hoser]

It is unfortunate that the Stars and Bars is so closely identified with slavery to so many.

The South did not go to war for slavery, they want to war against an overreaching federal government invading their sovereign States.

The vast majority of those who fought for the South (like 97%) never had slaves, and were not fighting for slavery, but for their own perceived liberty and freedom.  The flag is about states rights, and personal freedom and liberty, not about slavery which has been gone now for quite some time (but remains one of the greatest mistakes of injustice of humankind and US history).  States rights has also been successfully attacked/maligned/propagandized to be associated with slavery and jim crow and all things bad, but in its purest form is nothing more than a desire to have a more decentralized form of self  government, with more decisions and power reserved to the states, and ultimately to the people themselves.

I do not equate love of county with love of federal government.  Many do.  But more and more, love of federal government is seemingly the antithesis of love of country.

I am in favor of any and all symbols reflecting discontent with federal government, and love of individual liberty and freedom as plainly spelled out in our Constitution (which the federal government has marginalized and ignored for the last century).  This includes the Stars and Bars, despite its unfortunate association with slavery.  (I did not always feel this way)

The earlier Gadsden Flag of Revolutionary times is perhaps a less controversial symbol of individual liberty and freedom, but that was against the British crown, who has not been our enemy for quite some time.  

The enumerated powers are a list of items found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that set forth the authority of Congress.  In summary, Congress may exercise the powers that the Constitution grants it, subject to the individual rights listed in the Bill of Rights.  Moreover, the Constitution expresses various other limitations on Congress, such as the one expressed by the Tenth Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.  It expresses the principle of federalism, which undergirds the entire plan of the original Constitution, by stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the Constitution.  All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people.

The Tenth Amendment is similar to an earlier provision of the Articles of Confederation: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."  After the Constitution was ratified, South Carolina Representative Thomas Tudor Tucker and Massachusetts Representative Elbridge Gerry separately proposed similar amendments limiting the federal government to powers "expressly" delegated, which would have denied implied powers.

Well said, Jess.  Hoser

[Jess from VA]

Thank you. 

[Oss]

How many loopholes are big enough to sail a battleship thru

Commerce clause is one of them

As usual, I find Jess' post on the mark on the constitution

How sad that the federalist papers authors had no clue what would happen 2 centuries later to their ideas and ideals

[signart]

We can't blame the Obama and the liberals for this, the conservative politicians caved so easily and would not take a stand for our freedom. Now I feel like I've lost two flags. One is effectively banned, and the other I have lost respect for. It wasn't my choice it just happened.
The Tennessee governor just announced he would be banning SOCV plates.

[..]

Democrat Gov of VA has told owners of licene plates with "the flag" on they must be removed within 120 days.

The Republican Gov of Alabama has compared "the flag" to the Nazi Swastika.

“It has become a distraction all over the country right now,” Bentley said. The iconic Confederate battle flag in particular “is offensive to some people because unfortunately, it’s like the swastika; some people have adopted that as part of their hate-filled groups.”

AND SO THE HYPERBOLE GROWS AND GROWS.

So many scared of being accused of being "racist".

So many pandering to the small minority of voices demanding something be done.

Will the removal of "the flag" stop any future incidents like Charleston?

Will the president ask the hippity hoppers and rappers to immediately stop using the "n" word in their music?

Will the president never again ask one of these hypocrites to perform at the White House?

[..]

To many native Americans (That's Indians to you and me), and Japanese Americans (Think FDR's Japanese internment camps during WWII) and I'm sure many other groups, the US flag is a symbol of murder and oppression.

Should we take it down too?

Or... can we look past the bad, while acknowledging it, and celebrate the good things that flag stands for instead?

Don't give them any ideas.  As it is, when POTUS was elected, I put up a flag pole in my yard.  I wanted it to be grandfathered if he outlawed them;  after all, he is rarely seen with the flag ...

When life imitates parody (This is from a few months back)

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/11/professors-us-flag-symbolizes-racism-should-not-be-displayed-on-campus.html

I believe that is the desire of some Dem/Lib/Progs. Some will not be happy until all traces of American greatness are rubbed out.

To an extreme they are following in the footsteps of those who "changed" Italy, Russia, China etc.

Remove the cultural images of the past in order to create a "brave new world".

[..]

http://allenwestrepublic.com/2015/06/23/judicial-watch-obtains-fbi-investigative-files-on-valerie-jarretts-family/