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bagelboy
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« on: January 29, 2017, 06:20:41 AM » |
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Apparently, PM Trudeau has announced that Canada welcomes all refugees. While I have a feeling that most Canadians will not be happy with this decision, I find it discomforting that elected officials have the ability, here in the US, Canada, and elsewhere, to make such large, impacting decisions on their own without any input from its citizens. While I think Trudeau's decision is a bad one for Canadians, I wish all our friends up north the best, and hope they do not experience the same problems as some of our European ( England, France, Germany, etc.) friends have.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 06:41:17 AM » |
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I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
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Serk
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 06:56:11 AM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Beardo
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 06:57:05 AM » |
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JT has a habit of saying things like "All Canadians know..." followed by something that most Canadians likely disagree with. He got 39% of the vote in the last election. So, likely 61% disagree with him on a lot of what comes out of his mouth.
In Saskabertalumbia...it's what us Westerners sometimes call ourselves..., an even bigger percentage disagree with him and his policies.
Do I think we should ban all refugees fleeing war, persecution etc? No, I don't think anyone does. Should we take only the ones that can be properly vetted? Of course. We've been told that is the case so far. ..so long as it is a reasonable number that the support structures in place can handle. We haven't opened up the gates like Germany and France. Although we are lucky enough to have the Atlantic for a gate. It allows us to pick and choose who comes. It can be done and done properly.
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bagelboy
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 07:07:03 AM » |
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Should we keep out refugees that come from hardship, looking for a new life out of their upheavaled countries, absolutely not. However, when a PM or President makes decisions on his own, I think there is a real problem. We have seen in the US that when the government implements quick decisions without really planning and than later following through with the plan, things tend to fall off without checks and balances. That's when the trouble starts!
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Alpha Dog
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 07:09:10 AM » |
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That is the story the lame stream drive bys do not want you to know, and they certainly do not cover it over here. The most sacred charged duty of the President through the Constitution is to protect the citizens of the U. S. Seems to me we finally have a Pres. that gets it. |
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Pete
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 07:10:02 AM » |
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Perhaps mr. canada plans to "export" some across his southern border?
Hummmm.
Best wishes to all.
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signart
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 07:35:41 AM » |
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I have a friend who had a job building a water tank for the citizens of Canada and was refused entry at the border for failing to pay a ticket for not having the correct water floatation device in his boat here in Tennessee. Which he did pay, by the way, but was erroneously not recorded and warrant issued. But yeah, he was a real threat and a good thing he was so thoroughly vetted.
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Skinhead
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Posts: 8743
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 07:38:59 AM » |
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That is the story the lame stream drive bys do not want you to know, and they certainly do not cover it over here. The most sacred charged duty of the President through the Constitution is to protect the citizens of the U. S. Seems to me we finally have a Pres. that gets it. Or this https://youtu.be/ID223ToMVxM |
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 08:43:51 AM » |
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He's as malevolent as Merkel. I feel sorry for you Canada.
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Pappy!
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2017, 08:53:54 AM » |
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A PM, President or whoever seldom makes blanket statements like this without an underlying agenda. They know they are protected by walls and human protection.
Refugees can turn into a voting block, simple as that. To Hell with the lives of a few countrymen.....
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Bighead
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2017, 08:59:46 AM » |
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Do I think we should ban all refugees fleeing war, persecution etc? No, I don't think anyone does. Should we take only the ones that can be properly vetted? Of course. ..so long as it is a reasonable number that the support structures in place can handle. We haven't opened up the gates like Germany and France. Although we are lucky enough to have the Atlantic for a gate. It can be done and done properly.
This is the way I am sure most people feel . I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
Where in ALL did you read SOME women and children? |
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 09:01:35 AM by Bighead »
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2017, 09:10:14 AM » |
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Do I think we should ban all refugees fleeing war, persecution etc? No, I don't think anyone does. Should we take only the ones that can be properly vetted? Of course. ..so long as it is a reasonable number that the support structures in place can handle. We haven't opened up the gates like Germany and France. Although we are lucky enough to have the Atlantic for a gate. It can be done and done properly.
This is the way I am sure most people feel . I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
Where in ALL did you read SOME women and children? Yep of course no males will be allowed in to Canada just as no males were allowed in the EU.  |
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2017, 09:11:23 AM » |
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Gave this some thought of late.
You take a vacation. You go out to camp in the wilderness. Spend some time. Couple weeks. You run out of potable water and find a couple of ponds and a stream.
Do you drink from them?
This is what we are facing with the refugees. You can make the argument that they are fleeing a war and we should allow them in, but within the flow of refugees, like the flow of water in the stream, there are bad things embedded in them.
Like the water, we have to somehow process it so it is safe. You can try and make the case that we already do but we see that ISIS and the like are among them particularly in Europe and they thought they vetted them too.
The simple attempt here is to stop the flow of refugees until we can better and upgrade the vetting process for an element in the flow that actively is trying to defeat the current vetting process. And having some success.
ISIS is like the nasty bacteria in the pond. The normal processing methods are not working or are compromised.
The only desire is to fix these processes before we open the valve again.
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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old2soon
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2017, 10:17:26 AM » |
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Guy I drove truck with in Texas is/was a Nam Army Grunt. They came out of the bush after a patrol just outside their own wire. They'd ben buying soda from this 11 or 12 year old girl for about 2 weeks. Him and a friend were on point got their drinks first went up a rise for over watch. With in a couple minutes most of the grunts were buying their sodas and starting to drink them. They are kind of gathered up in a knot around this little girl when she reaches up under her clothes and pulls the toggles. My friend figured about 2 pounds of plastic and some form(s) of shrapnel. Killed a couple outright severely injured some others one or two died couple of days later. My friend realized Too effin late WHAT was going on and could NOT bring his rifle to bear soon enough. THIS incident involved Experienced front line jungle fighters. HOW do you expect the average Joe/Jane Blow civilian to react? THIS is a bit of WHAT mooslim terrorists want to bring here. Taking ALL the time Needed to properly vet them just makes sense to me. Or am I missin somethin? AND the vetting process ain't Perfect-No How No Way. I'll jut pick one from recent U S of A history-Boston Marathon BOMBING. RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Roadog
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2017, 10:23:02 AM » |
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Gave this some thought of late.
You take a vacation. You go out to camp in the wilderness. Spend some time. Couple weeks. You run out of potable water and find a couple of ponds and a stream.
Do you drink from them?
This is what we are facing with the refugees. You can make the argument that they are fleeing a war and we should allow them in, but within the flow of refugees, like the flow of water in the stream, there are bad things embedded in them.
Like the water, we have to somehow process it so it is safe. You can try and make the case that we already do but we see that ISIS and the like are among them particularly in Europe and they thought they vetted them too.
The simple attempt here is to stop the flow of refugees until we can better and upgrade the vetting process for an element in the flow that actively is trying to defeat the current vetting process. And having some success.
ISIS is like the nasty bacteria in the pond. The normal processing methods are not working or are compromised.
The only desire is to fix these processes before we open the valve again.
TOTALLY agree .. BUT you are speaking logic here and a whole lot of people just can't seem to wrap themselves around logic and truth. I mean just look at what the EU has done to itself in the name of humanity. FOOLS absolute fools . I think of those murdered in France, Germany and England,...Their leaders (?) thought more about taking care of those folks than their own people ! ALL of those deaths are at the feet of those responsible for allowing isis into their countries VIA refugee's PERIOD !!!! ALL President is trying to do is what he swore to when he took the oath of office. Remember,....We won, you didn't (obama to Sen. John McCain 2009));. It just might be your life he saves by this order. Be aware of your surroundings and be safe. Roadog |
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Serk
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2017, 10:24:22 AM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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old2soon
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2017, 10:49:41 AM » |
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The p c crowd WOUD/WILL/COULD be cryin the longest and the loudest if any of their relatives were Murdered hurt shot beheaded blown up or otherwise MAIMED by ANY of the so called "peaceful mooslims". Or again-am I missin somethin? RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Gavin_Sons
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VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2017, 11:04:37 AM » |
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Seems the women/children argument no longer holds any merit.  keep them all out until they are properly vetted. I'd rather keep them out all together. |
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T.P.
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2017, 01:04:22 PM » |
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I find it discomforting that elected officials have the ability, here in the US, Canada, and elsewhere, to make such large, impacting decisions on their own without any input from its citizens.
Donald Trump has run on that promise for well over a year. He got our input being elected president of the USA. that's his mandate and he got it started his first week in office. He has repeatedly said he is no politician, We cant expect him to act like one.  T.P. |
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"Well you can call me T, or you can call me P, or you can call me T.P. but you doesn't hasta call me Toilet Paper"
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Romeo
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J.A.B.O.A.
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2017, 01:08:09 PM » |
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I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
and I am equally glad out president is trying to save us from another tragedy like happened on 9-11-01. |
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Willow
Administrator
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Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2017, 03:08:44 PM » |
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A bit of logic to attempt to apply to the alleged reasoning regarding muslim refugees.
The muslims fleeing what is taking place are not necessarily simply innocents victimized by a brutal enemy. They are unfortunately very similar to the brutal enemy but theirs is the losing faction.
Their culture, that of both the winning and the losing factions, is incompatible with our views of right and wrong; good and bad.
I see no reason to allow entrance and asylum to anyone, regardless of their situation, who is not willing to be assimilated into the existing culture of our country. How would one verify this requirement? Give them aid where they are if you must. Do not bring them to our shores.
Just as an example of rampant stupid thinking I recently heard a man call into a radio talk show asking how people opposed to abortion were any different than ISIS. Apply real reason to our logic. Let's not let our emotions and our unreal belief in the universal well meaning of humanity at large destroy us.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2017, 03:30:42 PM » |
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I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
and I am equally glad out president is trying to save us from another tragedy like happened on 9-11-01. I was trying to apply the advice I received from a member about posting. But it looks like I'm going to respond anyway. As I recall most of the terrorists from 9/11 came from Saudia Arabia. Should it be added to the list of 7 countries ? Should we also change the poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty ? |
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G-Man
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2017, 05:01:50 PM » |
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An argument for refugee immigration was given to me by a very bright friend of mine. He served in the navy for a while, is well liked, and up until a few days ago, I truly believed he was one of the smartest friends I have. Are you ready for this one............ Now mind you, he was very serious, no sarcasm or levity anywhere. Ok, here goes....... You're gonna love this one......... Being involved in a terrorist attack is less likely than being hit by lightning.Yup, someone, an adult, a parent, with an education and military service said this.  |
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Bighead
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2017, 05:04:32 PM » |
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Do I think we should ban all refugees fleeing war, persecution etc? No, I don't think anyone does. Should we take only the ones that can be properly vetted? Of course. ..so long as it is a reasonable number that the support structures in place can handle. We haven't opened up the gates like Germany and France. Although we are lucky enough to have the Atlantic for a gate. It can be done and done properly.
This is the way I am sure most people feel . I haven't seen the announcement. But I'm glad our northern neighbors are trying to save some women and children from the atrocities of war.
Where in ALL did you read SOME women and children? ^^^^^^^^^^ |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
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Oss
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The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2017, 05:07:12 PM » |
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am I the only one who bothered to read the executive law ? here is the link http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/index.htmlIt has been clarified that if you have a green card you can come back Honestly, Obama had a honeymoon period, but no such luck for Trump Just wish he would disconnect his TWEET account and learn to use his press corps and conferences exclusively There is nothing stopping well meaning liberals from setting up safe haven camps in other countries till the war in Syria is over. The problem is keeping these folks safe where they go. Again UN is like tits on a bull or a screen door on a sub |
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 05:09:23 PM by Oss »
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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bagelboy
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2017, 05:11:02 PM » |
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T.P., I am against allowing refugees or willingly allowing anyone in this country without very severe vetting. My problem with PMs, Presidents(which I should have said Obama, or almost Hillary), and the like, is that they say they will allow refugees or immigrants into a country without even consulting the citizens of their country. After all, who pays for it all. The housing, food, schooling, healthcare, etc? The citizens do! For Trudeau to make that kind of statement, without consulting the citizens of Canada is irresponsible!
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Oss
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The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2017, 05:51:51 PM » |
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and here it is
Saudi Arabia's King Salman agreed with President Trump during their phone call to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen for refugees. reuters.com reports: Saudi Arabia's King Salman, in a phone call on Sunday with U.S. President Donald Trump, agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, a White House statement said. Trump, during his presidential campaign last year, had called for Gulf states to pay for establishing safe zones to protect Syrian refugees. A statement after the phone call said the two leaders agreed on the importance of strengthening joint efforts to fight the spread of Islamic State militants. "The president requested and the King agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts," the statement said.
I have zero love for the Saudi's and their ways but this is a great thing. The kingdom has a very vested interest in the defeat of Isis
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 05:53:47 PM by Oss »
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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Bighead
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2017, 06:04:59 PM » |
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and here it is
Saudi Arabia's King Salman agreed with President Trump during their phone call to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen for refugees. reuters.com reports: Saudi Arabia's King Salman, in a phone call on Sunday with U.S. President Donald Trump, agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, a White House statement said. Trump, during his presidential campaign last year, had called for Gulf states to pay for establishing safe zones to protect Syrian refugees. A statement after the phone call said the two leaders agreed on the importance of strengthening joint efforts to fight the spread of Islamic State militants. "The president requested and the King agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts," the statement said.
I have zero love for the Saudi's and their ways but this is a great thing. The kingdom has a very vested interest in the defeat of Isis
AAAAAAANNNDDDD that is the way we should help,keep them in their own part of the world not in ours where they don't understand us (freedom) and we don't understand them  |
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 06:19:08 PM by Bighead »
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BF
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2017, 06:08:21 PM » |
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I don't think that I've ever seen a candidate keep his campaign promises before. How refreshing. |
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I can't help about the shape I'm in I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin But don't ask me what I think of you I might not give the answer that you want me to  |
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gordonv
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2017, 07:33:47 PM » |
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There was just so many replies that I agreed with and thought I would requote only this one, since it was also by a fellow Canadian. JT has a habit of saying things like "All Canadians know..." followed by something that most Canadians likely disagree with. He got 39% of the vote in the last election. So, likely 61% disagree with him on a lot of what comes out of his mouth.
In Saskabertalumbia...it's what us Westerners sometimes call ourselves..., an even bigger percentage disagree with him and his policies.
Do I think we should ban all refugees fleeing war, persecution etc? No, I don't think anyone does. Should we take only the ones that can be properly vetted? Of course. We've been told that is the case so far. ..so long as it is a reasonable number that the support structures in place can handle. We haven't opened up the gates like Germany and France. Although we are lucky enough to have the Atlantic for a gate. It allows us to pick and choose who comes. It can be done and done properly.
I also agree with what Trump did. I remember when he first made that statement, and said until we can find a way of better screening. It was only quoted the first few hours on the news, then never mentioned again. |
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Gavin_Sons
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VRCC# 32796
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2017, 02:32:59 AM » |
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I think the people that want these refugees coming to our countries should take them in and be responsible for them. If they murder someone then the host family would be charged with murder along with the one who did it. All these people do is put a drain on our society and cost us millios and millions to take care of them. So if you want them here you pay for them and take 100% responsibility for their actions.
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G-Man
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2017, 04:13:53 AM » |
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And let us not forget who's failed foreign policies in the middle east lead DIRECTLY to the refugee insanity across the globe and the terrorist attacks that have ensued since within countries who took in the refugees............ Hussein Obama, that's who! His FAILED foreign policies and agenda, along with the blatant incompetence of 2 Secretaries of State, lines in the sand, their inability to deal with Putin, all lead the the deaths and abuse of women across Europe.
Oh, and the women and children thingie............. the German Chancellor called for a burka ban. If women were so safe, why would she call for such a ban? Could it be because the women are not so safe and that men disguise themselves as women wearing burka's. But, but, but, they're just huddled "huddled masses".
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G-Man
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2017, 04:17:38 AM » |
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And he obviously doesn't speak for ALL people north of our border......... 6 dead, 8 wounded, shooting up of mosque in Quebec.
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bagelboy
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2017, 05:09:46 AM » |
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I just read that GMan. Horrible! For every action, there is a reaction. I hope we don't see more of these reactions! Very sad...
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 05:29:26 AM » |
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I just read that GMan. Horrible! For every action, there is a reaction. I hope we don't see more of these reactions! Very sad...
What do think the nut job shooters were "reacting" to? |
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bagelboy
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2017, 06:00:34 AM » |
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My guess is Trudeau's statement welcoming refugees and middle eastern immigrants. Coincidence it happened 24 hours after the PM's statement? Maybe....maybe not!
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Skinhead
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J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2017, 06:51:03 AM » |
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Should we also change the poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty ?
Why not? We've removed the 10 commandments and other symbols that were deemed offensive to some of the enlightened, Let's just cover the inscription for now, like all Christian symbols were, whenever obama spoke in their presence. |
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G-Man
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2017, 10:50:28 AM » |
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Should we also change the poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty ?
Why not? We've removed the 10 commandments and other symbols that were deemed offensive to some of the enlightened, Let's just cover the inscription for now, like all Christian symbols were, whenever obama spoke in their presence. First thing that popped into my mind after reading your post..... I read that the Catholic High School system in NYC, which also includes Nassau and Westchester counties, graduates more minority boys than the entire NYC public schools system. And it was Hussein who put the stop to the voucher system I seem to recall. Don't allow kids in failing schools to go to thriving schools where they may have to sit through a religion class once a week. Don't allow kids to have a better chance because the public schools system would lose too much money. That one is my favorite. The local system here spends $38,000 per kid per year. The Catholic school my kid goes to does it for 1/3 the cost. The most expensive Catholic school in the area does it for 1/2. And they all do it better. Why shouldn't that money be pulled out of a failing system and spent where it gets results. I know, I know, throw more money at it. If we spend $50,000, we'll get the results, or maybe $80,000. |
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