Immigrant over here: the other side of the story

[Savago]

Dear friends

I don't have any expectation to change anyone's mind on the subject of immigration, but I thought it would be constructive to share my story.

Disclaimer: this comes from a white family guy, christian, straight and married to the same wife for over 18 years and father of a daughter.

Here it goes:
I'm orphan of father since I was 1 1/2 year old, as my father passed away in a car crash. I came from a poor family but my mother always taught me and my older brother that if we wanted anything in this life, we would have to work hard for it.

Besides being poor, I was a pretty good student. On my first try, got approved in the admission process (think SAT on steroids) of my original's country best university and would become an engineer (BSc and MSc, mind you...).

Going through the university being married and a father wasn't easy, but that is another story.

Fast forward a few years and thanks to hard work (I think I was with no vacations for maybe 10 or 12 years?) I was able to build the right set of skills to perform specialized jobs that have a pretty good impact, won't get on the details, but if you have any smartphone (android or iphone), you are using software that I contributed to.

About 4 years ago I had the opportunity to choose which country I would live and opted for USA. The land of the free and the home of the brave. I tell my European colleagues that they should be grateful to United States, because if it wasn't for the good and oldie USA, they would be either dead or speaking German.
:-)

Life is being good and I have had a great time, even though I'm able to save less money than before (ps: I was being paid in dollars while living in Brazil) I have no regrets as this is still a great country with great people.

It really piss me off when someone is dissing USA, as because they ignore all the good that this country has done for Europe and Japan, while helping keeping world peace.

If things are bad now, wait until China is the world leader...

Anyway, my older brother followed a similar path and is also living in USA, where he is a University professor (unlike me, he went the full way into academia and even got 2 PHds: one in Germany and other in Australia).

My brother has a greencard and I should be applying for one pretty soon.

After this lengthy introduction, let's get back to the original subject: the executive order blocking visitors and greencard holders.

For anyone that went through the lengthy and quite expensive process to legally live and work in USA it was a shock. The primary reason is that if you have a greencard you are not only legally permitted to live in USA, but you have financial responsibilities concerning taxes (i.e. doesn't matter which country you live, if you are a greencard holder you still got pay taxes to IRS).

You may argue that later the government changed its mind and decided to apply the exceptions only to visa holders but not greencard holders. Fair point, but keep in mind that anyone holding a visa went through interviewing process in a US consulate and paid all the due fees.

If a person was deemed unfit, it would be blocked right away (and indeed it is better to never set foot on this country). If you have ever applied for a visa to visit another country you may have an idea of the process, if not, it involves lots of forms, papers, fees and an interview with the consul of the US consulate where you applied. Your application can be denied on any grounds and there is no way to appellate.

Sudden changes like this one not only upsets the good people who follow the law and pay their fees, but also sends an alert to the world saying that the rule of the law in US can be ignored on a president's will.

The hope is not totally lost, because there are a few judges that stepped in and blocked the order.

The worst part of this all: it only polarizes the society and instigates friend against friend while ignoring the real treats this country is facing (I'm talking about the fat cats in Wall St and the big corps that don't care about US future or the bureaucrats that will come with more taxes for us to pay).

So closing this long message, I looked in the dictionary the definition of 'immigrant': "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country."

There are a few of us that love this country and do our share of contributions back to the society, while making this our new home.


All the best


Savago

[Moonshot_1]

Dear friends

I don't have any expectation to change anyone's mind on the subject of immigration, but I thought it would be constructive to share my story.

Disclaimer: this comes from a white family guy, christian, straight and married to the same wife for over 18 years and father of a daughter.

Here it goes:
I'm orphan of father since I was 1 1/2 year old, as my father passed away in a car crash. I came from a poor family but my mother always taught me and my older brother that if we wanted anything in this life, we would have to work hard for it.

Besides being poor, I was a pretty good student. On my first try, got approved in the admission process (think SAT on steroids) of my original's country best university and would become an engineer (BSc and MSc, mind you...).

Going through the university being married and a father wasn't easy, but that is another story.

Fast forward a few years and thanks to hard work (I think I was with no vacations for maybe 10 or 12 years?) I was able to build the right set of skills to perform specialized jobs that have a pretty good impact, won't get on the details, but if you have any smartphone (android or iphone), you are using software that I contributed to.

About 4 years ago I had the opportunity to choose which country I would live and opted for USA. The land of the free and the home of the brave. I tell my European colleagues that they should be grateful to United States, because if it wasn't for the good and oldie USA, they would be either dead or speaking German.
:-)

Life is being good and I have had a great time, even though I'm able to save less money than before (ps: I was being paid in dollars while living in Brazil) I have no regrets as this is still a great country with great people.

It really piss me off when someone is dissing USA, as because they ignore all the good that this country has done for Europe and Japan, while helping keeping world peace.

If things are bad now, wait until China is the world leader...

Anyway, my older brother followed a similar path and is also living in USA, where he is a University professor (unlike me, he went the full way into academia and even got 2 PHds: one in Germany and other in Australia).

My brother has a greencard and I should be applying for one pretty soon.

After this lengthy introduction, let's get back to the original subject: the executive order blocking visitors and greencard holders.

For anyone that went through the lengthy and quite expensive process to legally live and work in USA it was a shock. The primary reason is that if you have a greencard you are not only legally permitted to live in USA, but you have financial responsibilities concerning taxes (i.e. doesn't matter which country you live, if you are a greencard holder you still got pay taxes to IRS).

You may argue that later the government changed its mind and decided to apply the exceptions only to visa holders but not greencard holders. Fair point, but keep in mind that anyone holding a visa went through interviewing process in a US consulate and paid all the due fees.

If a person was deemed unfit, it would be blocked right away (and indeed it is better to never set foot on this country). If you have ever applied for a visa to visit another country you may have an idea of the process, if not, it involves lots of forms, papers, fees and an interview with the consul of the US consulate where you applied. Your application can be denied on any grounds and there is no way to appellate.

Sudden changes like this one not only upsets the good people who follow the law and pay their fees, but also sends an alert to the world saying that the rule of the law in US can be ignored on a president's will.

The hope is not totally lost, because there are a few judges that stepped in and blocked the order.

The worst part of this all: it only polarizes the society and instigates friend against friend while ignoring the real treats this country is facing (I'm talking about the fat cats in Wall St and the big corps that don't care about US future or the bureaucrats that will come with more taxes for us to pay).

So closing this long message, I looked in the dictionary the definition of 'immigrant': "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country."

There are a few of us that love this country and do our share of contributions back to the society, while making this our new home.


All the best


Savago

First, there is no mention of what country this person is from.

Second, as it relates to immigration, the President's will is US Law Under the Constitution.

Third, the moral of the story is to say that a foreign national's interest supersedes the security interest of the United States

Fourth, hope is indeed not lost as those judges who made this ridiculous and pointless ruling will be overturned.

Fifth, this sounds like the letter where the guys dad was a secret Somalian King and left his entire 38 billion dollar fortune to a random  person in the US and IT WAS YOU!!! Just send me all your personal information so our secret courrier can personally deliver the fortune to you. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Savago, thanks for sharing your story 

Moonshot, his English and vocabulary may not be perfect. But it seems quite evident to me he loves America.

[Whooray]

Savago, thanks for sharing your story 

Moonshot, his English and vocabulary may not be perfect. But it seems quite evident to me he loves America.

 

[Bighead]

Savago, thanks for sharing your story 

Moonshot, his English and vocabulary may not be perfect. But it seems quite evident to me he loves America.

Yes I have never seen or heard one person state they wanted to keep someone from here that wants to make the U.S. a better place. Only to try and make sure of the intentions of those that want to come here.

[hubcapsc]

It appears there's several classes of people caught by
the travel restriction that should have gotten through...

In the news they say Trump is about to "rewrite" the
immigration order. Perhaps the order will be adjusted
so that these people will be able to get through, we'll
see.

The news says this is a "big defeat" for Trump, I guess
if Trump is who he claims to be, this is just a part of the
negotiation.

-Mike

[Serk]

Anyone that wishes to go through the hoops and come here legally, and become an American (Not a Something-American, but just an American) I welcome as a friend and brother.

One thing to keep in mind on the recent order is that, even if it were allowed to stand, it was not a ban, or anything of the sort. It was a 90 day pause for most of the in scope nations to allow our people to look into their procedures and processes and make sure everything is set up correctly to make sure no bad apples get in.

A 90 day pause isn't a ban, for someone truly wishing to become an American, it's an inconvenience.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Anyone that wishes to go through the loopholes and come here legally, and become an American (Not a Something-American, but just an American) I welcome as a friend and brother.

One thing to keep in mind on the recent order is that, even if it were allowed to stand, it was not a ban, or anything of the sort. It was a 90 day pause for most of the in scope nations to allow our people to look into their procedures and processes and make sure everything is set up correctly to make sure no bad apples get in.

A 90 day pause isn't a ban, for someone truly wishing to become an American, it's an inconvenience.

Agreed, hopefully they can do better in round 2.

[Serk]

<Serk wrote a bunch of words>

And then Meathead wrote:

Agreed

...noting this day on my (VRCC) calendar!

[The emperor has no clothes]

<Serk wrote a bunch of words>

And then Meathead wrote:

Agreed

...noting this day on my (VRCC) calendar!

we've agreed many times my friend.

[baldo]

<Serk wrote a bunch of words>

And then Meathead wrote:

Agreed

...noting this day on my (VRCC) calendar!

we've agreed many times my friend.

Get a room.....

[cookiedough]

If what Trump truly intends is a 90 day freeze to coming into the U.S.  I am fine with that.  90 days is nothing compared to saving one US citizens life.  Just get this whole immigration rules figured out in the meantime.  No matter what he does though,  a few unruly evils will still get in creating evil to mix in with the 1000's already inside the states.

For those protesting and saying Trump is evil doing all kinds of wrongdoings,  GET out of the US on a one way ticket to never come back and then see how they like it! 

A lady I use to work with lived in the U.S. came from Russia about 15 years or so ago was at the time a mail order bride but got divorced from the rich jerk who treated her like a slave and heard a few evil things he did to her just to keep her locked up basically to his own doing.  She moved out and last I knew still looking to be a full fledge US citizen.  She told me the hoops and countless hours and tests and meetings with officials,  and more so the 1000s of dollars she did NOT have, who basically treated her like crap pretty much downgrading her anyway they could think of just to keep her where she is at in life.  She speaks very good English and was actually a teacher in Russia for several years and is NO harm to anyone, very nice.  Why does customs officials and others NOT make it easier for people like her to contribute to the US society is really F'ed up indeed. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

<Serk wrote a bunch of words>

And then Meathead wrote:

Agreed

...noting this day on my (VRCC) calendar!

we've agreed many times my friend.

Get a room.....

He's got way too much Neanderthal for my tastes. 

[Jess from VA]

Thanks for your story Savago.  I also have nothing against any person wanting to come to America and join our way of life, and contribute equally with all.  I went through this process (start to finish) with a wife I brought back from overseas a long time ago.  She worked very hard to pass all her tests and became a full fledged American and patriot.  She has a fondness for her home nation, but even though they still consider her a dual citizen, the threw that passport away.

But we have a right to worry about Islamic murderers and any other immigrant who's intentions are to bring his way of life with him, and adamantly not assimilate to ours.  We (the US) have tried very hard to do some good over in the Middle East for the last 20 years and have spent a pile of treasure and lives in the process, but we (and our allies) clearly have stirred up a hornet's nest in the process.  We also have a right to want to put an end to liberal notions of open borders and globalization and millions of illegals and all the crime and trouble they bring with them.  We have enough crime and trouble with our own citizens, without adding to it.  

So understand that those of us who are wholeheartedly supporting our new president's early attempts to bring common sense to government are looking at the big picture, and not so much the small inconveniences and mistakes along the way.  They will get fixed in due course.

And most of the hot blooded feelings in this thread are not about immigrants, but about politically motivated US born American judges who ignore American law in favor of their own personal views, which is nothing but illegal corruption in our judicial system.  We may in fact support the protection of the few that were adversely and perhaps unfairly affected by this executive order, but we do not appreciate the judges illegal method of stopping the whole program, just for those few.

          

[old2soon]

Savago-Welcome Brother. I grew up in a MUCH different time 50s and 60s with a war thrown in for good measure. NOT being a politician I'd Like to Believe that given a bit of time that these "issues" for lack of a better term-will get ironed out so you and others such as you and your family will NOT be deported at All. There are far TOO Many liberals left over that WILL continue to attempt to thwart the current POTUS at every turn he wants to make. And I have to agree with Jess-IF a person insists on being a hyphenated American show it as an American of such and such what ever country suites ya! If you REALLY want to live here put AMERICA First! BUT sure as GOD made little green apples NO Matter the vetting process some that wish to do us-AMERICANS-Will slip thru the vetting process. I keep thinking about a scene from one of the Walking Tall movies after the judge screwed around with Sheriff Buford Pusser. He read up on the LAW and figured out the Sheriff assigned the office space in the court house. The judge that effed with him under the Sheriffs jurisdiction moved the judges office to the basement crapper. Maybe The Donald SHOULD reassign some office space?  RIDE SAFE.

[Savago]

@Moonshot
As I've said, I'm an engineer, not a writer. But definitely is the first time someone says I write as a Somalian scammer.

Concerning where I'm from, I will quote the original text: "... I was being paid in dollars while living in Brazil...".

In case is unclear, I'm Brazilian and was born and raised in Sao Paulo (a bigger city than NY). Got Italian and french blood from both sides of the family.

I'm not affected by the executive order in a direct way, neither my family.

That being said, it created ripples and disturbance to any legal immigrant in US. It sends the message that rules can be broken and due process is no longer available.

And that is the perspective I'm trying to share with you my friend.

Again, like I said in the beginning, I don't have any expectation to change anyone's mind on the subject of immigration.

[Savago]

@all: to anyone suggesting to just leave if you don't agree, I just say this: "This colors don't run."
\o/

[Savago]

And in case it was unclear: I do support the government attempts to have further screening on people who can be unfit or poses threats to this country and its way of life.

I (as anyone here) want a vibrant, prosperous and safe America.

That being said, I have hope that changes are made within the rule of the law and following due process.

[The emperor has no clothes]

And in case it was unclear: I do support the government attempts to have further screening on people who can be unfit or poses threats to this country and its way of life.

I (as anyone here) want a vibrant, prosperous and safe America.

That being said, I have hope that changes are made within the rule of the law and following due process.

Sounds like you are well on your way to becoming a good American. I hope you apply for citizenship. 

[Robert]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The judges struck it down for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would want to applaud this order by the president because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under. It may also reduce taxes since we will not be bleeding money to pay for things that go along with a illegal population. Like every American you would breath easier knowing your safe, especially coming from Brazil where there is no real law and bribes and back room deals, thugs and poverty is the norm. Where lack of schooling and training keeps people from developing.

The executive order was not wrong and followed the laws of this country. But I would say that the judges are the ones that are wrong like many others have said hope one day they will have their day that they will have to explain themselves. I would say the fact that they were able to stop the order was inexperience on Trumps part not knowing how partisan, power hungry, and corrupt the courts have become to not follow the rule of law but instead making legislation. Obama had this down pat and would make orders that are very hard to change even though they were not right.   

I would also like to ask you, did you come here by the new law that allows corporations to bring skilled workers here in exchange for citizenship?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

[Bighead]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

Meat I don't think anyone here on A visa will be sent back unless they are a felon, so there is that 180* thing again.
As far as Roberts  understanding well 180 again. As many see things the way he does not the way you do.

[3fan4life]

The United States is a nation of immigrants.

Most Americans are not against people immigrating here from other countries.

We do and should have the right to insist upon certain things.

Among them are:

1) Immigrants come here via the legal process.

2) People immigrating here are doing so with the intent of becoming productive citizens.

3) They are willing to subscribed to and live by the following:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

These conditions should NOT be negotiable.

From the tone of your posts, I believe that you have been through this process and had no problem with it.

So, let me say Welcome to America!

You and people like you exemplify the American Dream. 


In response to President Trump's Executive Order. I don't believe that its intent was to prevent people who are willing to adhere to these conditions from coming here to live. There was confusion with the implementation of the EO and some people were inconvenienced as a result. That is a small price to pay if it allows our government to implement a vetting process that makes "ALL" Americans safer. Including those that are in the process of coming here. And no matter how much hype the liberal left and the mainstream media spew out trying to say otherwise. The ban was and is only temporary.

Every nation has laws and rules that govern immigration. No country has nor should they have borders that are completely open. You mention that you are from Brazil. Here is a link to some of their immigration laws:

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/citizenship-pathways/brazil.php  


There is no guarantee of entrance into Brazil by anyone:

The visa granted to the alien by the consular authority does not imply any guarantee of entrance or permanent residence in Brazil.[8]  Additionally, an alien who does not present a valid travel document or any other form of identification valid in Brazil; who presents identification that has expired, that has been tampered with, or that has indications of forgery; or who presents a consular visa that does not observe the conditions established in Law No. 6,815 and in Decree No. 86,715 cannot be admitted into the country.[9]

[Robert]

Meat

So do you think he came here on the Visa from the expanded Obama program to give corporations the ability to give citizenship to those who work here? Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

As far as disagreeing with the law and agreeing with the courts decision, I will not answer what that makes you its self explanatory.

As for my understanding I think that was answered a few posts ago by others and you didn't like the answers then either.

It would be nice to backup your thinking with how its supposed to work also instead of questioning my understanding and offering no explanation.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Meat

So do you think he came here on the Visa from the expanded Obama program to give corporations the ability to give citizenship to those who work here? Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

As far as disagreeing with the law and agreeing with the courts decision, I will not answer what that makes you its self explanatory.

You are missing the whole point Robert. He seems to understand we are a great country with freedom, liberty, and the right of free thought and speech. You seem to think if one doesn't see things the way you do they are disloyal . I stand by my statement that its rather sad.

[3fan4life]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

I do believe that violates the Willow doctrine that you have said you're adhering to.

That aside, you have been doing much better lately with keeping your posts on a more civil level.

Civil discussion and disagreement can be productive.

Insulting remarks, even those that are insinuated are not.


Question:

Am I correct to assume by your remarks that you have no problems with illegal immigration?

That just strikes me as odd, especially when it is estimated that 40-46% of Arizona's population are illegal immigrants.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/immigration-in-arizona-fact-sheet

I would think that someone living in the middle of what could be called the "Ground Zero" of the illegal immigration problem would have a problem with it.    

[Robert]

Sudden changes like this one not only upsets the good people who follow the law and pay their fees, but also sends an alert to the world saying that the rule of the law in US can be ignored on a president's will.

The hope is not totally lost, because there are a few judges that stepped in and blocked the order.

The above is taken directly from his post

This statement reflects his desires, his thinking and understanding of US laws. It also says he has a personal stake in this. We all want what we want especially if it affects us. I am no different but I do understand one thing sometimes it stinks to run up against a restriction in something I want.

 But I also know that it may be there for a good I dont know about. If you are new to a country and dont fully know its laws or the way it was formed you may not understand why a law is there. Kind of like dont judge a man till you walk in his shoes. Once you understand then you can appreciate the situations that may gave rise to those laws. Obama changed the US in fundamental ways because he didn't understand the US. He had a goal and didn't understand the will and power and wealth of America so he failed not only to achieve his goals but even in doing good.

I still would like my question answered on who sponsored him and why.

[3fan4life]

So do you think he came here on the Visa from the expanded Obama program to give corporations the ability to give citizenship to those who work here? Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

Robert, This is no different from someone following the tax laws to ensure that they pay less taxes.

Remember how the left tried to demonize Trump over this during the election?

I don't know if this was the case with Savago or not.

I do know that You cannot blame him or anyone else for following the laws that are in place.

[Robert]

So do you think he came here on the Visa from the expanded Obama program to give corporations the ability to give citizenship to those who work here? Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

Robert, This is no different from someone following the tax laws to ensure that they pay less taxes.

Remember how the left tried to demonize Trump over this during the election?

I don't know if this was the case with Savago or not.

I do know that You cannot blame him or anyone else for following the laws that are in place.

Totally agree 

But that still does not say why he got this wonderful opportunity was it because of an unfair Obama executive order and now he is calling Trumps bad not knowing that the same rule of law supplied his opportunity? Wouldn't that be kind of ironic  Because that would only put a further highlight on the problem with bypassing immigration and naturalization laws by a president looking at  special interests and open boarders.

[Willow]

While taking the position of being careful not to inconvenience any visa holders (or mastercard holders) one must keep in mind that the participants on the infamous day of 11 September were all in the U.S.A. legally.  The 90 day delay (interruption) specifically only impacted folks coming to the U.S.A. from a very few countries who have been primary in being the source of terrorists making their way into our country.

That the order applies or impacts immigrants in general is a ridiculous smokescreen thrown up by the left leaning media.

The President's order was done fully within the law of the land and the powers of the Executive.  I think that clearly indicates that Savago's understanding of U.S. law is flawed.  Robert's understanding of applied law is not complete but anyone who would Robert's understanding of the law is less than that of a four year immigrant is most assuredly seriously mistaken.  I would say that individual must more likely be a butcher than an attorney.

I would personally prefer that no one who could not satisfactorily prove his interest in the safety and well being of all Americans and the American culture be denied entrance.  These are hard times with serious consequences to a small mistake in the immigration process.

By the way as a partial descendant of the Choctaw nation I resent the implication that all Americans are the result of immigration.        

[The emperor has no clothes]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

I do believe that violates the Willow doctrine that you have said you're adhering to.

That aside, you have been doing much better lately with keeping your posts on a more civil level.

Civil discussion and disagreement can be productive.

Insulting remarks, even those that are insinuated are not.


Question:

Am I correct to assume by your remarks that you have no problems with illegal immigration?

That just strikes me as odd, especially when it is estimated that 40-46% of Arizona's population are illegal immigrants.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/immigration-in-arizona-fact-sheet

I would think that someone living in the middle of what could be called the "Ground Zero" of the illegal immigration problem would have a problem with it.    

Where have I ever said ANYTHING in favor of illegal immigration ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

While taking the position of being careful not to inconvenience any visa holders (or mastercard holders) one must keep in mind that the participants on the infamous day of 11 September were all in the U.S.A. legally.  The 90 day delay (interruption) specifically only impacted folks coming to the U.S.A. from a very few countries who have been primary in being the source of terrorists making their way into our country.

That the order applies or impacts immigrants in general is a ridiculous smokescreen thrown up by the left leaning media.

The President's order was done fully within the law of the land and the powers of the Executive.  I think that clearly indicates that Savago's understanding of U.S. law is flawed.  Robert's understanding of applied law is not complete but anyone who would Robert's understanding of the law is less than that of a four year immigrant is most assuredly seriously mistaken.  I would say that individual must more likely be a butcher than an attorney.

I would personally prefer that no one who could not satisfactorily prove his interest in the safety and well being of all Americans and the American culture be denied entrance.  These are hard times with serious consequences to a small mistake in the immigration process.

By the way as a partial descendant of the Choctaw nation I resent the implication that all Americans are the result of immigration.        

That person would be correct in that Robert understands little of freedom and loyalty.

[Bighead]

While taking the position of being careful not to inconvenience any visa holders (or mastercard holders) one must keep in mind that the participants on the infamous day of 11 September were all in the U.S.A. legally.  The 90 day delay (interruption) specifically only impacted folks coming to the U.S.A. from a very few countries who have been primary in being the source of terrorists making their way into our country.

That the order applies or impacts immigrants in general is a ridiculous smokescreen thrown up by the left leaning media.

The President's order was done fully within the law of the land and the powers of the Executive.  I think that clearly indicates that Savago's understanding of U.S. law is flawed.  Robert's understanding of applied law is not complete but anyone who would Robert's understanding of the law is less than that of a four year immigrant is most assuredly seriously mistaken.  I would say that individual must more likely be a butcher than an attorney.

I would personally prefer that no one who could not satisfactorily prove his interest in the safety and well being of all Americans and the American culture be denied entrance.  These are hard times with serious consequences to a small mistake in the immigration process.

By the way as a partial descendant of the Choctaw nation I resent the implication that all Americans are the result of immigration.        

That person would be correct in that Robert understands little of freedom and loyalty.

See 180 again I see where Willow said YOU WOULD BE MISTAKEN not Robert.
He did say Roberts understanding may not be complete.

[Moonshot_1]

@Moonshot
As I've said, I'm an engineer, not a writer. But definitely is the first time someone says I write as a Somalian scammer.

Concerning where I'm from, I will quote the original text: "... I was being paid in dollars while living in Brazil...".

In case is unclear, I'm Brazilian and was born and raised in Sao Paulo (a bigger city than NY). Got Italian and french blood from both sides of the family.

I'm not affected by the executive order in a direct way, neither my family.

That being said, it created ripples and disturbance to any legal immigrant in US. It sends the message that rules can be broken and due process is no longer available.

And that is the perspective I'm trying to share with you my friend.

Again, like I said in the beginning, I don't have any expectation to change anyone's mind on the subject of immigration.

Your disclaimer led me to believe that this was a posted as a 3rd person post. Not from you. So I read it from a totally unintended perspective.

The difference in the dynamics between Brazil and the war torn, Middle East Islamic States and their neighbors is significantly different from US National Security perspectives. The upheaval in Europe with the influx of refugees, with many being of military draft age, is a precursor to what can be in store for the US.
I do realize that for legal residents and specific international travelers this is going to be an inconvenience. But this is a limited moratorium and not an outright ban forever and ever.

The issues in Europe with the influx of refugees is also cultural. This isn't simply receiving immigrants from these countries on a case by case basis. This is wholesale immigration. Cultural immigration.

This dynamic doesn't exist anywhere in our hemisphere. Yes there are differences in cultures among our countries on this side of the world but not to the extent where there is such a juxtaposition of them.

Having a 90 day moratorium to review procedures, insure proper vetting in war ravaged countries, to insure we are able to properly receive them, and establish updated procedures to ensure the security of the Country is a reasonable approach.

[Serk]

By the way as a partial descendant of the Choctaw nation I resent the implication that all Americans are the result of immigration.        

It's just a matter of degrees. Granted, Choctaw immigrated here millennia ago instead of centuries ago, but they're still immigrants here...

[3fan4life]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

I do believe that violates the Willow doctrine that you have said you're adhering to.

That aside, you have been doing much better lately with keeping your posts on a more civil level.

Civil discussion and disagreement can be productive.

Insulting remarks, even those that are insinuated are not.


Question:

Am I correct to assume by your remarks that you have no problems with illegal immigration?

That just strikes me as odd, especially when it is estimated that 40-46% of Arizona's population are illegal immigrants.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/immigration-in-arizona-fact-sheet

I would think that someone living in the middle of what could be called the "Ground Zero" of the illegal immigration problem would have a problem with it.    

Where have I ever said ANYTHING in favor of illegal immigration ?

There was a reason that I posted it as a question that could've been answered without a defensive response.

While you haven't said anything directly in favor of illegal immigration many of your posts.

Especially in this thread:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,92800.msg921877.html#msg921877

Have given me the impression that you aren't in favor of restricting immigration.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Very touching story and glad your here and only one among many and that is how the system is supposed to work.

But would you like to hear of the horrible stories of people who come here to change the US or have babies here and get benefits and send them to their home country? How about the ones that get tax refunds for kids and dont even pay into the system, or the ones stealing SS numbers. I'm sure you probably know of many of these stories yourself. I am personally tired of paying for these freeloaders and illegals.  I am tired of states not conforming to the law and having sanctuary cities. We dont know who these people are and if they are criminals. I would think you bringing your family here would want them safe also. I assume that is one reason you brought them here.

If you are a true US citizen and reflect that the judges saved the day by blocking the order then I question your loyalties and understanding of the law or even how a free society is supposed to govern themselves. The order was done for political reasons by a rouge court and against the rule of law. I would think you would applaud this because once this action is all over and the bad people are sent packing it will make your life easier because of the reduced scrutiny that you may find yourself or your family under.

We watch Germany and France and many other countries that have brought many in and we also see terror attacks and Sharia law and so much more even to some living in the streets of Paris turning the place into a war zone.

I believe Savago said he was here on a Visa. But I am a "true American citizen" . Because I disagree with your assessment that makes me disloyal ? You sir know squat about our system of government. I don't question your loyalties, I question your understanding.  
It's rather sad that an immigrant here on a visa understands America better than a so called loyalist.

I do believe that violates the Willow doctrine that you have said you're adhering to.

That aside, you have been doing much better lately with keeping your posts on a more civil level.

Civil discussion and disagreement can be productive.

Insulting remarks, even those that are insinuated are not.


Question:

Am I correct to assume by your remarks that you have no problems with illegal immigration?

That just strikes me as odd, especially when it is estimated that 40-46% of Arizona's population are illegal immigrants.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/immigration-in-arizona-fact-sheet

I would think that someone living in the middle of what could be called the "Ground Zero" of the illegal immigration problem would have a problem with it.    

Where have I ever said ANYTHING in favor of illegal immigration ?

There was a reason that I posted it as a question that could've been answered without a defensive response.

While you haven't said anything directly in favor of illegal immigration many of your posts.

Especially in this thread:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,92800.msg921877.html#msg921877

Have given me the impression that you aren't in favor of restricting immigration.

Well you just haven't been paying attention. Or maybe you are selective in what you want to believe. I will try to clear it up for you. This thread was about said subject. Read my opinions and then tell me what you think.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,92074.40.html

[The emperor has no clothes]

Geez 3fan, I just read down and saw you agreed with my position. I think maybe you do have some selectivity going on. 

[Savago]

Hey, Robert

As you have asked, please check below:
> would also like to ask you, did you come here by the new law that
> allows corporations to bring skilled workers here in exchange for
> citizenship?

The visa I have IIRC had the rules established way back in 1990 and was signed by George H. W. Bush.

It is dual intent in the sense it offers the opportunity to apply for a green card if I wish so.

I don't know what is this 'new law' you are talking about.

> But that still does not say why he got this wonderful opportunity was
> it because of an unfair Obama executive order and now he is calling
> Trumps bad not knowing that the same rule of law supplied his opportunity?

No Obama here, see previous reply.

I got the 'wonderful' opportunity because even though I don't have money, what I do have "is a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired along a very long career".
:-)

It may be hard to believe, but in tech/science sometimes the best talent is not *available* locally i.e. the good local professionals are working for a company's competitor.

> Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

I had the job for almost 1 year even before I set foot in USA. The requirements for my work are only a computer with internet and access to an airport when I need to travel.

When I decided to move, I could have chosen UK, Finland, USA, Canada and Korea.

I chose USA.

If you ever happened to visit the SF Bay Area, let me know. I would like to invite you for a beer and some Brazilian barbecue. You may be surprised that there are good people that were born in a foreign country.
:-)

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hey, Robert

As you have asked, please check below:
> would also like to ask you, did you come here by the new law that
> allows corporations to bring skilled workers here in exchange for
> citizenship?

The visa I have IIRC had the rules established way back in 1990 and was signed by George H. W. Bush.

It is dual intent in the sense it offers the opportunity to apply for a green card if I wish so.

I don't know what is this 'new law' you are talking about.

> But that still does not say why he got this wonderful opportunity was
> it because of an unfair Obama executive order and now he is calling
> Trumps bad not knowing that the same rule of law supplied his opportunity?

No Obama here, see previous reply.

I got the 'wonderful' opportunity because even though I don't have money, what I do have "is a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired along a very long career".
:-)

It may be hard to believe, but in tech/science sometimes the best talent is not *available* locally i.e. the good local professionals are working for a company's competitor.

> Did some corporation fire a US worker to make room for him?

I had the job for almost 1 year even before I set foot in USA. The requirements for my work are only a computer with internet and access to an airport when I need to travel.

When I decided to move, I could have chosen UK, Finland, USA, Canada and Korea.

I chose USA.

If you ever happened to visit the SF Bay Area, let me know. I would like to invite you for a beer and some Brazilian barbecue. You may be surprised that there are good people that were born in a foreign country.
:-)

I love riding NorCal. Next time I'm up that way I'd love to meetup.