children dying senselessly at the hands of madmen should never happen

[Skinhead]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-take-the-guns-first-due-process-later.html

This is stupid, Trump is completely wrong on this. Since when are you guilty until proven innocent?

Thinking deeper on this, the idea still makes me queasy, but if some iron clad safeguards were put in place, such as:

-Making false claims is a hard felony.
-Maximum 48 hours before a hearing.
-All expenses related to the hearing are covered.
-Methods in place of appealing the ruling from the due process hearing.
(I'm sure out shyster friends could word those better and probably expand upon them, but you get the idea.)

I wouldn't be QUITE as opposed to such a thing.

Of course, it'd only take once for someone to be disarmed, go to their hearing, get their guns back, and THEN go on a rampage that all the safeguards would be blown out...

How about we enforce the laws we already have before we add new ones? Just like that guy on here a couple years ago when we were having a gun debate, said he could shoot my eye out at 30 feet. I said, Wow, you can shoot a gun a whole 10 yards  Should i have been able to call and get his guns removed for threatening me? I talked to one of our engineers yesterday and he wants law passed that will let anyone call and make a complaint about anyone and the police go and take their guns. I was like, wait a minute. You're saying i could call the police on you and lie about you being a threat and they would come take your guns until you are proven not to be a threat? That is the same thing Trump wants done and it is not right. Lets enforce the laws we already have before we start adding more that we will not enforce in 5 years.

I agree completely, Hard felony for denying someone their Constutional Right if claim is false.
Where do the funds come from to cover this?  The gun owner should not have to pay to get their weapons back, I already have a problem with paying for classes and a CWP to exercise a right.

[Skinhead]

  Trump is F'ing up like Obama if he caves on this one.

Are you referring to Obama's big gun grab that never happened?

No, I'm referring to all the other BS and unconstitutional executive orders and policies he imposed on us.  The health care "Tax" for instance.  Your side always claims we won't call out Trump when he is wrong (like your ilk did with Obama (PBUH)), we will oppose Trump when he is wrong, too bad you guys didn't do the same with your anointed one.  Hell, you guys still think Hillary is pure and innocent!

[baldo]

  Trump is F'ing up like Obama if he caves on this one.

Are you referring to Obama's big gun grab that never happened?

No, I'm referring to all the other BS and unconstitutional executive orders and policies he imposed on us.  The health care "Tax" for instance.  Your side always claims we won't call out Trump when he is wrong (like your ilk did with Obama (PBUH)), we will oppose Trump when he is wrong, too bad you guys didn't do the same with your anointed one.  Hell, you guys still think Hillary is pure and innocent!

Thanks for clearing that up.

[G-Man]

......... we will oppose Trump when he is wrong, ..........

And Trump said we should fight the NRA when they are are wrong.

The left is so blinded by hating him that they can't even see when they agree with him.

[Serk]

Anyone wanna place bets on how long it takes CNN and the rest of the left wing media to come out in support of the 2nd Amendment now?

[Alpha Dog]

If the objective is to keep guns out of deranged shooters at schools use systems that already work.  One way in and out.  Large Schools could have more entrances.  Metal detectors at the entrance supervised by law enforcement and all bags scanned.   As back up, conceal carry any willing teacher, coach, administrator at that school that has clean background and goes through rigorous training.  Butler Country, OH Sheriff Richard K. Jones said he will provide the training for free.  I bet a lot of other counties would also.   To help pay for this get rid of  useless administrators.  Any highly trained and of sound mind ex military or law enforcement that want to patrol schools  - let them.  In lieu of payment the Fed and State  gov't could make all these individual tax exempt for x number of hours every week.

I heard a gentleman last week on Rush's show from Minnesota I believe.  They had a problem with not enough city offices for the Police Dept.  So they set up satellite stations at every school.  This is also a very good way for the police to mingle with young folks and gain their trust and blow away a lot of misconceptions of the police.

[Gavin_Sons]

My wife went to this school when she was younger. I think all schools could learn from them. I now work within 5 miles of this school. Yes it is a rural school but a very safe one.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/15/safest-school-in-america-has-400k-security-system-should-other-schools-catch-up/

[¿spoom]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-take-the-guns-first-due-process-later.html

This is stupid, Trump is completely wrong on this. Since when are you guilty until proven innocent?

When they take your car away before they take you to court for selling drugs from/with it? I don't have any use for dealers, but I still hate the forfeiture laws. Not like they'd help themselves to a Congressman's home if he committed a felony from it. 

[¿spoom]

[/quote]

I agree completely, Hard felony for denying someone their Constutional Right if claim is false.
Where do the funds come from to cover this?  The gun owner should not have to pay to get their weapons back, I already have a problem with paying for classes and a CWP to exercise a right.
[/quote] Exactly. Imagine the "voter disenfranchisement howls if we had to pay a $25 ID check before we voted. Especially if it were for every election just like it's for every commercial gun purchase.

[Skinhead]

Not like they'd help themselves to a Congressman's home if he committed a felony from it. 

Maybe they should.

[3fan4life]

I don't like this either.

It's the slippery slope conundrum.

Under current Virginia law (the law varies greatly from state to state) if someone is deemed to be a threat to themselves or others they may be put on an Emergency Custody Order (ECO) for up to 8 hours or a Temporary Detainment Order (TDO) for up to 72 hours for psychiatric evaluation.

They must be taken before a judge to be held for more than 72 hours.

If they are locked away in a mental facility then them having access to their weapons should be a non issue.

So, if the mental health "professionals" do their job correctly a person that is a potential threat should be physically seperated from any weapons that they own for 72 hours anyway.

Then if after 72 hours they are deemed to indeed be a threat to self or others they can be committed indefinitely.


One of the biggest problems with mental health is that for some people it "comes and goes".

I have no idea how that issue should be legally addressed.  

I do believe that if someone has threatened to use a weapon to harm others or has planned the use of weapons against others.

Then they probably shouldn't be allowed access to those weapons.

But, everyone involved needs to be proactive and do their job/part.

That includes not just mental health professionals.

It includes police, judges and family members.

The Parkland, FL shooting is a prime example of some people stepping up to the plate and trying to do the right thing and still nothing happened until it was too late.

All of the links in the chain have to work together or it doesn't work at all.

And no matter how many new laws that are passed this still holds true.

Some of the scariest words ever uttered are, "There should be a law".

The truth is that laws are already on the books that can prevent a psychotic person from legally owning firearms.

Everyone needs to do their jobs and the police and the courts need to do their jobs and enforce those laws.

[baldo]

The truth is that laws are already on the books that can prevent a psychotic person from legally owning firearms.

Everyone needs to do their jobs and the police and the courts need to do their jobs and enforce those laws.

trump isn't making this any better......

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-shooting-mental-illness/

[3fan4life]

The truth is that laws are already on the books that can prevent a psychotic person from legally owning firearms.

Everyone needs to do their jobs and the police and the courts need to do their jobs and enforce those laws.

trump isn't making this any better......

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-shooting-mental-illness/

A quote from a related article:

https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/

As we explained in a 17 February 2017 post, this rule — which never went into effect before being rescinded — did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns. It merely would have provided a new way to enforce existing restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another. There are now, and have been for some time, laws that seek to limit gun sales to anyone "who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution" per Title 18 section 922(g) of the United States Code.

[Psychotic Bovine]

The truth is that laws are already on the books that can prevent a psychotic person from legally owning firearms.

Everyone needs to do their jobs and the police and the courts need to do their jobs and enforce those laws.

trump isn't making this any better......

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-shooting-mental-illness/

Totally untrue.  The "law" which was never enacted, basically made it so the Social Security Administration could make it so anyone who filed a disability claim who needed help with managing their disability payments could be considered mentally defective.

So, Baldo, do you have someone do your taxes?  If so, you could have been denied owning a firearm under this very vague rule (it was never enacted,it was never a "law").

[Psychotic Bovine]

I love it when people like Baldo and Meathead (and others) profess to know all about gun laws.

Check federal form 4473 question 11, subsection F.

I am guessing you never purchased a firearm from a legit dealer.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I love it when people like Baldo and Meathead (and others) profess to know all about gun laws.

Check federal form 4473 question 11, subsection F.

Either you have never bought a firearm through a dealer or you are intentionally lying.

I love it when people like Mad6gun and Pyschotic Bovine (and others) profess to know about humanity.

[Gavin_Sons]

I love it when people like Baldo and Meathead (and others) profess to know all about gun laws.

Check federal form 4473 question 11, subsection F.

I am guessing you never purchased a firearm from a legit dealer.

they probably don't even know what a 4473 is

[Gavin_Sons]

I love it when people like Baldo and Meathead (and others) profess to know all about gun laws.

Check federal form 4473 question 11, subsection F.

Either you have never bought a firearm through a dealer or you are intentionally lying.

I love it when people like Mad6gun and Pyschotic Bovine (and others) profess to know about humanity.

and you know about humanity? You sure talk a big game but do nothing to back it up. Just like what about the muslim women and children. Did you ever take a family into your home? I thought not.