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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« on: February 16, 2018, 09:32:33 PM » |
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Everybody dies. But children dying senselessly at the hands of madmen should never happen.
What could have delayed the murders, what could have saved some lives, what could have saved all of them?
If the guy would have been denied by the NICS check (and obviously he should have been investigated and put on the no-gun list) then he couldn't have bought the gun at a sporting goods shop. So, he would have been delayed till he stole a gun or bought one from a criminal.
If the guy had been confronted by an armed school employee some of those kids would probably be alive today. However, it would have still meant a gunfight inside a school.
But, if he knew the school was protected by good people with guns..... He would have went somewhere else to find defenseless victims, there would have been no school shooting and all those adults and children would have went home to their families like every other day.
These horrible nut job massacres don't happen in spite of "gun free zones", they happen because of them. These people don't want combat, they want cowering, helpless, defenseless victims so they go to "gun free zones" to find them.
If we allowed school employees who carry a gun when they are not at work to carry when they are at work, and made it common knowledge that some school employees are armed, many, many dead children would still be alive today. It would require no additional money, it would require no big new programs, it would just require allowing people to exercise the same freedom at work they exercise daily when they are not at work.
If you somehow feel unarmed victims are morally superior to armed citizens then feel free to be one. But stop causing children to die by forcing your own irrational fears on the rest of us. In most states kids and adults are constantly surrounded by armed good guys even if they don't know it. But when they go into a school this built in protection is gone.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 11:11:40 PM » |
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I agree Mike. Despite some pretty grim school shootings, apparently you can still walk in them and shoot people at will. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
Security at schools has to be increased. It should not cost a bazillion dollars like TSA and airports, so the federal govt should stay (the hell) out of it, and state and local Gs, and the schools themselves should step up. No one size fits all program is necessary, but some program is necessary.
Let competent, screened permitted citizens working in schools carry. Give the schools a cop off the local department, or county sheriff, or even state trooper. Recruit local off (or on) duty military members. Ask for competent and screened armed volunteers for crying out loud. I bet lots of good solid military and police retirees and others would step right up, without pay (or not much pay). In urban or more populated areas, they might get 30-50 volunteers, then be able to pick the the five best (and those five would likely be very good people).
If schools (or depts of education) have liability concerns about wrongful death, injury, false imprisonment, yada.... work it out, and make it go away. If you have to budget for liability insurance, then do it.
Then for nuts and bolts, look at door security, stick in a couple cameras, improve locks and doors on classrooms, and have a plan. This is not rocket science. The existing fat, dumb and happy plans are not working.
All (or some) teachers, administrators, counselors, nurses, and any security should have monthly meetings for the specific purpose of discussing any problem students (or others) who present a potential threat to school security. Information should be shared, and any action discussed and coordinated. If a student needs referred for evaluation, DO IT. If this security committee needs assistance, they go to the cops or the city attorney or the mayor (who among them wants it said they failed to help or ignored a school security committee?). Get ahead of the problem, if possible.*
If leftist, militant school people, teachers and their union are obstructionist, bulldoze them (and promise them liability lawsuits for the cost of the dead). I don't know if teachers have employment contracts. If they do, they should be required as a condition of employment to fully cooperate in any and all actions taken to provide school security. Hell, make them take an oath of office. If any person working in a school today thinks they are there only to teach, or administer, or whatever, but it's not their business to actively assist in school security (in whatever way then can, not necessarily armed), they should be given a blanket party, then fired.
This is just off the top of my head. Good plans and ideas beget other good plans and ideas. Schools should be networking their plans and ideas with each other. This problem is apparently not going away.
*I sat on the Child Advocacy Committee on two Air Force bases. The JAG, the chief of police, the chief doc (or a pediatrician), and a chaplain. Once a month, we reviewed together every child medical treatment for injury or neglect, any police incidents involving children, and anything else relevant to the health and welfare of our military children (up to 18, but our real focus was kids). Four heads are always better than one (and each of us looked at the case from our own professional perspective, and you get a synergy there), and things missed by one were rarely missed by four. Most of the cases we looked at presented no problem or suspicion, but some did. We did not act like CPS fanatics, but if something looked crooked, we looked into it further (and could go at it from any of our four members, whichever looked like it would work best). The same thing can be done for school security. Teamwork always pays off (assuming the team members give a sh!t).
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 12:58:49 AM by Jess from VA »
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Pete
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 04:44:55 AM » |
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Well said guys.
Gun free zones are nothing except bait for crazies and a really stupid idea.
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 05:07:28 AM » |
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there's so many other issues at hand here other than the gun(s) which would take many pages to address each on their own.
for instance;
why is it males who do the shootings?
what was wrong with this kid? who failed here? parents? church? teachers? TV/computer games/ Hollywood movies? the list can go on and on, each can come with it's own reasons.
for instance i read the shooter's mother died recently, how did that impact him? was he jealous of kids who still had their mother or father or both?
somewhere along the way in this kids life the ability to decide how to handle life was crosswired. he knew what he was doing, he walked away and went to eat.
media and others are so quick to jump on the gun issue but really fail to ( or want to) address what this kid's major malfunction was.
the quick fix (the gun issue) is not solution here, the solution is much deeper and requires more work which is the hard part, who's going to do the hard part.
there will always be murders, there will always be hate,jealousy,envy and greed, 4 of the 7 deadly sins which are usually the main reason for most crimes and crimes which are mostly associated associated with some sort of personal injury throughout history.
i'm not blaming this on God, i'm not saying it's the church's fault, i'm not trying to start a holy war of should morals and virtues be taught in school (maybe they should, who knows but it's a sub heading as i said where this kid got lost along the way) but something in the system failed and innocent kids are dead.
attacking the school (IMO) was personal, there was something he hated. if he just wanted to attack mass amounts of people he could have done a supermarket or townhall, but the school had a reason to him.
as i said this issue to much deeper than the gun side and the rabbit hole has many tunnels in to navigate through.
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Gavin_Sons
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Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 05:14:10 AM » |
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there's so many other issues at hand here other than the gun(s) which would take many pages to address each on their own.
for instance;
why is it males who do the shootings?
what was wrong with this kid? who failed here? parents? church? teachers? TV/computer games/ Hollywood movies? the list can go on and on, each can come with it's own reasons.
for instance i read the shooter's mother died recently, how did that impact him? was he jealous of kids who still had their mother or father or both?
somewhere along the way in this kids life the ability to decide how to handle life was crosswired. he knew what he was doing, he walked away and went to eat.
media and others are so quick to jump on the gun issue but really fail to ( or want to) address what this kid's major malfunction was.
the quick fix (the gun issue) is not solution here, the solution is much deeper and requires more work which is the hard part, who's going to do the hard part.
there will always be murders, there will always be hate,jealousy,envy and greed, 4 of the 7 deadly sins which are usually the main reason for most crimes and crimes which are mostly associated associated with some sort of personal injury throughout history.
i'm not blaming this on God, i'm not saying it's the church's fault, i'm not trying to start a holy war of should morals and virtues be taught in school (maybe they should, who knows but it's a sub heading as i said where this kid got lost along the way) but something in the system failed and innocent kids are dead.
attacking the school (IMO) was personal, there was something he hated. if he just wanted to attack mass amounts of people he could have done a supermarket or townhall, but the school had a reason to him.
as i said this issue to much deeper than the gun side and the rabbit hole has many tunnels in to navigate through.
I think sometimes, especially in todays culture, there are just evil people. No matter what you do or the help you get them or how they were raised they turn out to be evil. Todays culture teaches kids that you get a trophy for everything. Instead of getting them use to sometimes losing at a young age. |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 05:59:26 AM » |
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Gavin, yes there will always be evil people in the world. there have been guns and schools in this country since it's beginning but why in the last 25 or so years have schools been a target for students? you could be right that it's the "trophy concept". the work ethic has been buried. reward for had work has been overlooked and pushed aside because of "fairness to all". could that have played into this,maybe it did.
this wan't an "adult" who went after kids in school, this was a person who went after his peers and a place filled with them.
if this was a wooden schoolhouse would he as drenched it in gas and burned it?
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Gavin_Sons
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VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 06:10:55 AM » |
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Gavin, yes there will always be evil people in the world. there have been guns and schools in this country since it's beginning but why in the last 25 or so years have schools been a target for students? you could be right that it's the "trophy concept". the work ethic has been buried. reward for had work has been overlooked and pushed aside because of "fairness to all". could that have played into this,maybe it did.
this wan't an "adult" who went after kids in school, this was a person who went after his peers and a place filled with them.
if this was a wooden schoolhouse would he as drenched it in gas and burned it?
I dont know if there's a single good answer. Even when I was in highschool 99-03 I always had a gun in my vehicle, or knew kids that did. Like many I went to school with we hunted before and after school. No one ever got shot or threatened to shoot anyone. |
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Robert
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 06:35:06 AM » |
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How about the disintegration of the family in today's society with the emasculation of the father and the prosecuting of the fathers or even families if there is one hint of abuse? That the minute one unsubstantiated claim of sexual molestation results in the arrest of the father with legal fees and sometimes a permanent separation of the father from the family.
If the FBI and Sheriffs office had acted as fast as they do to these claims to the tips they received from everyone about this kid we would not be having this conversation. The Sheriffs office received 12 tips and the FBI was 2 or 3.
More of a trip down the wormhole we call society what about any drugs this kid was on and why did no one even pull this kid aside and take him under their wing to maybe help him deal with all the personal issues. We had alot of people who knew the signs but NO ONE REACHED OUT to him before this.
This was a direct result of the policies created by our society against church, men, women and the general removing of help, punishment and way of life that used to be the US.
Guns really, a method of last resort, what about the safety nets built into our society? The human caring ones not the governmental agencies only.
We are reverting back to the wild west when everyone wore a gun and you could settle the things with a gun fight but we dont have the compassion of love of life they did back then. Nor do we have the idea of family or stepping into a situation that may need a father or good man to help those in need. I would welcome a step back to those times if we could have this sense of family also.
We see 2 school mass shootings both the kids were at a terrible place in life the comparisons are telling.
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 06:37:58 AM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Serk
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 06:36:59 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Robert
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 06:47:03 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
Interesting Idea, I have not seen this stop anyone like the drug free zone. But have seen both still available to all students and the only result is some get more jail time or are arrested running afoul of the law. The left wants compassion by law enforcement its worked in some cases but failed in most. Compassion, families, friends, connections to society do more to educate people and give them a choice and way out that works more than all other solutions. |
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 06:49:47 AM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Roadog
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2018, 10:05:45 AM » |
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How about the disintegration of the family in today's society with the emasculation of the father and the prosecuting of the fathers or even families if there is one hint of abuse? That the minute one unsubstantiated claim of sexual molestation results in the arrest of the father with legal fees and sometimes a permanent separation of the father from the family.
If the FBI and Sheriffs office had acted as fast as they do to these claims to the tips they received from everyone about this kid we would not be having this conversation. The Sheriffs office received 12 tips and the FBI was 2 or 3.
More of a trip down the wormhole we call society what about any drugs this kid was on and why did no one even pull this kid aside and take him under their wing to maybe help him deal with all the personal issues. We had alot of people who knew the signs but NO ONE REACHED OUT to him before this.
This was a direct result of the policies created by our society against church, men, women and the general removing of help, punishment and way of life that used to be the US.
Guns really, a method of last resort, what about the safety nets built into our society? The human caring ones not the governmental agencies only.
We are reverting back to the wild west when everyone wore a gun and you could settle the things with a gun fight but we dont have the compassion of love of life they did back then. Nor do we have the idea of family or stepping into a situation that may need a father or good man to help those in need. I would welcome a step back to those times if we could have this sense of family also.
We see 2 school mass shootings both the kids were at a terrible place in life the comparisons are telling.
Another unsafe gunfree zone ! Godless parents raising Godless kids in Godless homes ! We kicked GOD out just about 60 years or so ago. We are on our third generation raised without Godly principals ! What exactly did we expect...! Most homes have had guns for more than 200 plus years , this 'kids killing kids thing' for maybe 30 years now. This is an easy one. Gun control has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with control ! I have been extra nice to my guns this past week so not to upset them, and so far they havnt run around and killed anyone or shot the place up . Roadog Ride safe carry when you can |
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signart
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2018, 10:57:24 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
The uproar from leftist media is definitely used for advancement of leftist political views, in fact I believe they love this kind of tragedy. They feel it is a way to gain votes for leftist agendas, no matter the cost to the country. Sadly the school shooting deaths account for only 1% of school age children murders.
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6997
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2018, 11:45:18 AM » |
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If the FBI and Sheriffs office had acted as fast as they do to these claims to the tips they received from everyone about this kid we would not be having this conversation. The Sheriffs office received 12 tips and the FBI was 2 or 3.
If the local Sheriff's office received a dozen complaints/tips about this guy and didn't act upon them then they need to be sued. Money is the only thing that government agencies care about. A successful multi million $$$ against them would do more than anything else to cause law enforcement agencies nationwide to take things more seriously in the future. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18  |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2018, 01:48:56 PM » |
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If the FBI and Sheriffs office had acted as fast as they do to these claims to the tips they received from everyone about this kid we would not be having this conversation. The Sheriffs office received 12 tips and the FBI was 2 or 3.
If the local Sheriff's office received a dozen complaints/tips about this guy and didn't act upon them then they need to be sued. Money is the only thing that government agencies care about. A successful multi million $$$ against them would do more than anything else to cause law enforcement agencies nationwide to take things more seriously in the future. I’m not sure they really care about the money. After all it’s coming out of the taxpayers pocket not theirs. Loss of employment they might care about. |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6997
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2018, 01:56:41 PM » |
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If the FBI and Sheriffs office had acted as fast as they do to these claims to the tips they received from everyone about this kid we would not be having this conversation. The Sheriffs office received 12 tips and the FBI was 2 or 3.
If the local Sheriff's office received a dozen complaints/tips about this guy and didn't act upon them then they need to be sued. Money is the only thing that government agencies care about. A successful multi million $$$ against them would do more than anything else to cause law enforcement agencies nationwide to take things more seriously in the future. I’m not sure they really care about the money. After all it’s coming out of the taxpayers pocket not theirs. Loss of employment they might care about. That may be true at the Federal level. I have worked for local government. I can tell you that local government agencies CARE about money. And at that level any employee that costs them money will be terminated. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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Raider
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 03:45:34 PM » |
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Pretty weak arguments against Lott's statistics. When looking at locations that a mass shooter would prefer, one should focus on events in which a shooter had no intent other than killing many people. It is senseless to look at the events included in the other studies. Examples: - Gang warfare- the shootings happen where the gangs are - Robberies- the shootings happen - Crimes of passion- the shooting happens where the target is If we include all of these, as Klarevas did, it skews our understanding of location and logic in selecting sites for mass shootings. |
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Robert
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 04:45:49 PM » |
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What a beautiful, powerful and motivating speech about Fathers. Our society has sought to remove the father and family. Final Speech from, "Courageous" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKB66_kSeIUCourageous - The Father's Resolution (Scene) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CRchn9YeyE |
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 04:57:12 PM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6997
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 05:47:13 PM » |
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Everyone who is a father, especially those of young children needs to watch these videos!  |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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Serk
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2018, 05:55:14 PM » |
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Everyone who is a father, especially those of young children needs to watch these videos! As an Atheist (Technically Agnostic but splitting hairs) father of 4, I watched it, I do all I can to raise my kids and raise them to be good, moral, ethical people. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2018, 05:59:25 PM » |
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Everyone who is a father, especially those of young children needs to watch these videos! As an Atheist (Technically Agnostic but splitting hairs) father of 4, I watched it, I do all I can to raise my kids and raise them to be good, moral, ethical people. contrary to what some believe, it's quite possible to be moral and not go to church each Sunday. |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6997
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2018, 06:24:44 PM » |
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Everyone who is a father, especially those of young children needs to watch these videos! As an Atheist (Technically Agnostic but splitting hairs) father of 4, I watched it, I do all I can to raise my kids and raise them to be good, moral, ethical people. contrary to what some believe, it's quite possible to be moral and not go to church each Sunday. Yes it's possible. It just isn't easy. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6997
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2018, 06:26:00 PM » |
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Everyone who is a father, especially those of young children needs to watch these videos! As an Atheist (Technically Agnostic but splitting hairs) father of 4, I watched it, I do all I can to raise my kids and raise them to be good, moral, ethical people. I am 100% sure that you are. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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baldo
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Posts: 6961
Youbetcha
Cape Cod, MA
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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 04:55:43 AM » |
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The uproar from leftist media is definitely used for advancement of leftist political views, in fact I believe they love this kind of tragedy. They feel it is a way to gain votes for leftist agendas, no matter the cost to the country. Sadly the school shooting deaths account for only 1% of school age children murders.
WTF...Are you out of your mind? What is wrong with you? |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8742
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2018, 05:15:19 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
The uproar from leftist media is definitely used for advancement of leftist political views, in fact I believe they love this kind of tragedy. They feel it is a way to gain votes for leftist agendas, no matter the cost to the country. Sadly the school shooting deaths account for only 1% of school age children murders.
Wasn't there a recent presidential administration that was caught illegally selling guns to Mexican drug cartels in order to stir up popular sentiment for increased gun control/confiscation? I seem to recall something like that, prior to this current Russian crisis that we absolutely must get to the bottom of. |
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Robert
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2018, 05:23:43 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
The uproar from leftist media is definitely used for advancement of leftist political views, in fact I believe they love this kind of tragedy. They feel it is a way to gain votes for leftist agendas, no matter the cost to the country. Sadly the school shooting deaths account for only 1% of school age children murders.
Wasn't there a recent presidential administration that was caught illegally selling guns to Mexican drug cartels in order to stir up popular sentiment for increased gun control/confiscation? I seem to recall something like that, prior to this current Russian crisis that we absolutely must get to the bottom of. In that administration I thought it only happened once but it actually happened twice. But there have been many false flag incidents staged to make a point. Before Fast & Furious, Florida had Operation Castaway http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/before-fast-amp-furious-florida-had-operation-castaway/1255064Interesting read that many did not hear about. |
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:29:00 AM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Robert
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 05:35:33 AM » |
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While those that are not Christians can be moral and may even morally be better than some Christians thats not the whole story. There is so much more to a successful life than morality. As one interesting point. Where Do You Go When You Die? The Increasing Signs That Human Consciousness Remains After Death http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443 |
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 06:40:07 AM » |
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My main question is, was the fact that laws like the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990 are causing children to die a consequence of this law, or was the law passed with the express intent of causing more children to die to give credence to the anti-freedom side's call for more citizen control...
And yes, I know even thinking that sounds crazy. It saddens we have gotten to the point where I, as a somewhat non-insane citizen, even consider the possibility that our leaders are intentionally allowing children to be slaughtered for political aims as opposed to it being just simple misguided but good intents on their part, but here we are.
The uproar from leftist media is definitely used for advancement of leftist political views, in fact I believe they love this kind of tragedy. They feel it is a way to gain votes for leftist agendas, no matter the cost to the country. Sadly the school shooting deaths account for only 1% of school age children murders.
Wasn't there a recent presidential administration that was caught illegally selling guns to Mexican drug cartels in order to stir up popular sentiment for increased gun control/confiscation? I seem to recall something like that, prior to this current Russian crisis that we absolutely must get to the bottom of. Operation Wide Reciever ? |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8742
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 07:12:52 AM » |
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That was one, that was ended, what was the other? And what were the results of the other? I also believe that the Bush administration admitted to it's role in OWR. What action was taken by the administration that allowed the second to occur?
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Troy, MI |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2018, 07:17:47 AM » |
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That was one, that was ended, what was the other? And what were the results of the other? I also believe that the Bush administration admitted to it's role in OWR. What action was taken by the administration that allowed the second to occur?
To shut it down. Both were wrong. Both were implemented in the field by the ATF. |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8742
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2018, 07:44:06 AM » |
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Which was lied about?
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Troy, MI |
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RP#62
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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2018, 07:44:20 AM » |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8742
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2018, 08:23:44 AM » |
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According to the teacher, things started changing in 1999, I believe A clinton was president then. News of the Clinton–Lewinsky relationship broke in January 1998. I the ensuing years a lot of young kids learned about oral sex. They also learned that lying and denying about a wrong doing had few to no consequence. I'm not saying Slick Willie is responsible for this shooting, but society is partially to blame for the lack of accountability for peoples actions, just MHO. And I could not agree more with Kelly Guthrie Raley's message.
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Troy, MI |
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solo1
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« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2018, 05:04:04 AM » |
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contrary to what some believe, it's quite possible to be moral and not go to church each Sunday.
Quote by Meathead.
Quite true. I believe that we are all born with a moral standard. For some this moral standard is reinforced by life struggles, for others, the present man made moral standards have deviated and people raised with no sense of responsibility to themselves and others do as they please even to the point of taking life to 'get even' or become a 15 minute celebrity. Maybe oversimplification of a terrible problem but that's my opinion.
Christians and others with a religious bent should not judge others because they will be judged by their Creator.
Wayne, Solo1
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2018, 05:37:32 AM » |
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contrary to what some believe, it's quite possible to be moral and not go to church each Sunday.
Quote by Meathead.
Quite true. I believe that we are all born with a moral standard. For some this moral standard is reinforced by life struggles, for others, the present man made moral standards have deviated and people raised with no sense of responsibility to themselves and others do as they please even to the point of taking life to 'get even' or become a 15 minute celebrity. Maybe oversimplification of a terrible problem but that's my opinion.
Christians and others with a religious bent should not judge others because they will be judged by their Creator.
Wayne, Solo1
agreed |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2018, 08:10:30 AM » |
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I believe we are born with no moral standard of any kind. (Though I'm not big on the Catholic idea of original sin, it does have some basis in fact.) Babies scream their heads off and crap their pants (and later behind the couch) and demand satisfaction of their every need or want. And spoiled rotten kids continue this behavior for as long as they can get away with it, clear through adulthood in some cases.
It is only good parenting, church, good (as opposed to immoral) friends and peers, good schools, and hopefully a very healthy respect for and fear of the criminal justice system that makes humans not all be savages. (watch the movie Lord Of The Flies) Moral people are made, not born. Certainly it can be done without the church, but someone has to pick up the slack.
I am a believer in development through good moral socialization (which can always be reduced the simple common denominator of the carrot and the hammer, reward and punishment), and that very little has to do with genetic bloodlines.... though some people clearly are born bent and beyond repair, I think that is not very many. Many serial killers are discovered to have had absolutely horrible, brutal childhoods, but some had every advantage.
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:29:29 AM by Jess from VA »
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Robert
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« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2018, 03:56:07 PM » |
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???
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1Co 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
Lev 19:15 'You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.
Heb 5:13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 04:07:44 PM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2018, 04:06:02 PM » |
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Don’t ask me verse I don’t know
“Blessed is he who gives hospitality to strangers for he has sometimes entertained angels unaware”
Sometimes we meet them sometimes we are them
IMHO
Dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Serk
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« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2018, 04:08:19 PM » |
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Don’t ask me verse I don’t know
“Blessed is he who gives hospitality to strangers for he has sometimes entertained angels unaware”
Hebrews 13:2 |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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