First Valkyries with extra performance

[Beer van Huet]

Just out of curiosity and interest
There is a rumor going around that Honda added some extra performance to the first production Valkyries. In that way, the press would be even more impressed.
Is there someone who, by any chance has more information about this?
TIA

[F6Dave]

According to many sources the '97 models had more power.  I have some old MCN road tests that show faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for the first year models.

[Skinhead]

it is my understanding that the 97s had different camshafts wrt later models.

[Kep]

They were also stamped "Made in USA" on engine case in 97.....that automatically makes them faster..haha

[Chrisj CMA]

I know my 97 was faster than my friends 98 until he sent it to attic rat. Now I think his is stronger off the line. Pretty even at speed, we did some rolling acceleration side by side and really no difference could be determined

[DarkSideR]

According to the Technical Specs the 97's had two.. two more horse power (100hp) than the later years (98hp), with the same torque number.

Though technically it did have more ponies, don't know if two hp is noteworthy.

[sandy]

My current '97 is faster than my '98 CA tourer. Last Fri I installed dyna jet needles (2nd notch down) , IS carb springs and an IS ICM. Woke it up a bit more. WOO HOO!!

[9Ball]

They were also stamped "Made in USA" on engine case in 97.....that automatically makes them faster..haha

That makes my '99 standard faster as well.  I point that "Made in USA" casting out whenever I can.

[98valk]

OEM R1 camshafts, early 49 state had them. california bikes had R2 emission camshafts which drop power 8-10HP.   all '98 models had R2 cams. after that could be any cam for 49 state models.

do not know what cams non USA bikes have, however I would presume with the stricter europe emissions most likely all are R2.

from my post http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,89373.0.html
Chillerman actually bought new ones using the 49 state part #, they have R1

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,54105.0.html

if one goes on a parts site, AC after a bike model # means california
bike.

here is my July post about my R2 cams
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,80073.0.html

[F6Dave]

According to MCN summary page from June, 2000:

Model tested:  97 Standard* / 99 Tourer / 99 Interstate

Rear wheel HP:  100.0 / 93.2 / 92.8

Rear wheel torque:  102.3 / 92.5 / 94.9

0-60:  3.86 / 4.12 / 4.37

1/4 mile:  12.02 @110.70 / 12.52 @103.90 / 12.76 @100.89


* The 97 was an early model tested in 1996.  Model not specified but I think it was a standard.

[semo97]

I had a 99 IS for 4 years the son has it now. I have a 97 tourer and it is all around faster,  quicker throttle response  then the IS. The IS is carrying more wt. and the fairing up front but there is a difference. Not much. I would like to take the trunk off and the fairing then run them.

[Mooskee]

Interesting topic. I was wondering about this the other day because my son acquired a 97, and we were talking about rebuilding the carbs. I looked at the specs and noted that:
The Main Jets and the Slow jets are the same as other years.
The carb number is different after 97.
The Jet Needle number is different after 97.
Pilot screw settings are different after 97.

SOME ASSUMPTIONS AND QUESTIONS:
MAYBE the model difference between the 97, and after 97 is the main jet needle?
MAYBE the model difference between the C/CT and CF is the main spring?
IF we were to put 97 Jet needles in and tune to 97 pilot jet settings would we get the extra HP, or are there other differences in the carb bodies?
I suppose one could dyno, change them and dyno again.

*Mind you I have no idea if this is true. I am hoping someone who actually knows will chime in. *



]

[The emperor has no clothes]

Interesting topic. I was wondering about this the other day because my son acquired a 97, and we were talking about rebuilding the carbs. I looked at the specs and noted that:
The Main Jets and the Slow jets are the same as other years.
The carb number is different after 97.
The Jet Needle number is different after 97.
Pilot screw settings are different after 97.

SOME ASSUMPTIONS AND QUESTIONS:
MAYBE the model difference between the 97, and after 97 is the main jet needle?
MAYBE the model difference between the C/CT and CF is the main spring?
IF we were to put 97 Jet needles in and tune to 97 pilot jet settings would we get the extra HP, or are there other differences in the carb bodies?
I suppose one could dyno, change them and dyno again.

*Mind you I have no idea if this is true. I am hoping someone who actually knows will chime in. *



]

This seems a logical hypothesis. The only thing I would take into consideration, would be how often Honda changes #'s with no apparent reason.

As far as the differences between a Standard and an Interstate. I can't tell any difference in throttle response due to the carb springs. There is no doubt weight differences come in to play. When jumping on my Standard I always feel at first how "sporty" she is.

[98valk]

Interesting topic. I was wondering about this the other day because my son acquired a 97, and we were talking about rebuilding the carbs. I looked at the specs and noted that:
The Main Jets and the Slow jets are the same as other years.
The carb number is different after 97.
The Jet Needle number is different after 97.
Pilot screw settings are different after 97.

SOME ASSUMPTIONS AND QUESTIONS:
MAYBE the model difference between the 97, and after 97 is the main jet needle?
MAYBE the model difference between the C/CT and CF is the main spring?
IF we were to put 97 Jet needles in and tune to 97 pilot jet settings would we get the extra HP, or are there other differences in the carb bodies?
I suppose one could dyno, change them and dyno again.

*Mind you I have no idea if this is true. I am hoping someone who actually knows will chime in. *



]

the camshafts affect the HP that much.   Jetting only would, if the engine is running Pig Rich at WOT and it is leaned for best power. Been there per my last FactoryPro dyno run, due to thinking ethanol leaned out the engine more than it did.
manufactures change part #s many times esp. after the first yr for different reasons.
All carbs are the same except for Calf emission carbs have extra vac tube connections for the charcoal canister which has zero effect on HP.
if u pull the valve covers u can see if they are R1 or R2 camshafts it is on the shaft like the previous thread pics I posted.
I/S springs will reduce HP on the bottom end and increase mpg, making for a softer throttle response.  Velocity is what draws fuel out of the needle well. the softer I/S springs allow the slide to open faster and too much thereby reducing velocity and fuel draw, until engine rpms rise enough to increase velocity to increase fuel draw.
They are a tuning item mainly since the floats are not adjustable. Had to use them for my ported and polished heads, modified OEM air filter and air box with R1 cams and viking exhaust to get a wide temperature range of smooth running.

[Mooskee]

the camshafts affect the HP that much.   Jetting only would, if the engine is running Pig Rich at WOT and it is leaned for best power. Been there per my last FactoryPro dyno run, due to thinking ethanol leaned out the engine more than it did.
manufactures change part #s many times esp. after the first yr for different reasons.
All carbs are the same except for Calf emission carbs have extra vac tube connections for the charcoal canister which has zero effect on HP.
if u pull the valve covers u can see if they are R1 or R2 camshafts it is on the shaft like the previous thread pics I posted.
I/S springs will reduce HP on the bottom end and increase mpg, making for a softer throttle response.  Velocity is what draws fuel out of the needle well. the softer I/S springs allow the slide to open faster and too much thereby reducing velocity and fuel draw, until engine rpms rise enough to increase velocity to increase fuel draw.
They are a tuning item mainly since the floats are not adjustable. Had to use them for my ported and polished heads, modified OEM air filter and air box with R1 cams and viking exhaust to get a wide temperature range of smooth running.

Good points on the cam shafts. I saw the discussion the other day. I'm not sure yet exactly what the R1, R2 really mean, I.e. revision numbers or different cams with different rise times etc. However different cams could certainly account for a difference in HP.

I just checked OEM parts listings and found that the Jet Needles for 97 are not available and are a different number than later years. The Jet Needles I looked at for the later years are available.

The $ per HP ratio seem to never work out for changing a cheep component! You change a few jets and spend hours tuning to get marginal HP, if any at all. Using the seat of the pants dyno will lie to you too.

Yet I still must know!

I had a 2000 Standard that I put a Dial-A Jet system on. I tuned it with an exhaust gas analyzer and took it to one of the early Inzanes in Zanesville OH. I had it dyno'd there and although I can not remember the exact HP it produced, I do remember that the guy said it was the best he had seen without spending a lot of money. He said the Dollars to HP ratio would go way up to get any more out of it. After all that I do remember it was still less than 100 HP.

[98valk]

the camshafts affect the HP that much.   Jetting only would, if the engine is running Pig Rich at WOT and it is leaned for best power. Been there per my last FactoryPro dyno run, due to thinking ethanol leaned out the engine more than it did.
manufactures change part #s many times esp. after the first yr for different reasons.
All carbs are the same except for Calf emission carbs have extra vac tube connections for the charcoal canister which has zero effect on HP.
if u pull the valve covers u can see if they are R1 or R2 camshafts it is on the shaft like the previous thread pics I posted.
I/S springs will reduce HP on the bottom end and increase mpg, making for a softer throttle response.  Velocity is what draws fuel out of the needle well. the softer I/S springs allow the slide to open faster and too much thereby reducing velocity and fuel draw, until engine rpms rise enough to increase velocity to increase fuel draw.
They are a tuning item mainly since the floats are not adjustable. Had to use them for my ported and polished heads, modified OEM air filter and air box with R1 cams and viking exhaust to get a wide temperature range of smooth running.

Good points on the cam shafts. I saw the discussion the other day. I'm not sure yet exactly what the R1, R2 really mean, I.e. revision numbers or different cams with different rise times etc. However different cams could certainly account for a difference in HP.

I just checked OEM parts listings and found that the Jet Needles for 97 are not available and are a different number than later years. The Jet Needles I looked at for the later years are available.

The $ per HP ratio seem to never work out for changing a cheep component! You change a few jets and spend hours tuning to get marginal HP, if any at all. Using the seat of the pants dyno will lie to you too.

Yet I still must know!

I had a 2000 Standard that I put a Dial-A Jet system on. I tuned it with an exhaust gas analyzer and took it to one of the early Inzanes in Zanesville OH. I had it dyno'd there and although I can not remember the exact HP it produced, I do remember that the guy said it was the best he had seen without spending a lot of money. He said the Dollars to HP ratio would go way up to get any more out of it. After all that I do remember it was still less than 100 HP.

different cams with different timing events. R2 is the emissions cam.
see threads I posted there are pics.
I run a Dial-a Jet on mine also. per the company I was the first to buy and install besides their test model.

[Chrisj CMA]

Well. I'm satisfied with the awesome power my 97 has. 100hp is fine with me. The older I get the more fine with me it gets

[h13man]

From all the approaches to get the 97' performance on later C's/T's this seems to be the most affordable for sure. I think the ICM on the 97' is the real difference from past post/input from members.

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm

[98valk]

From all the approaches to get the 97' performance on later C's/T's this seems to be the most affordable for sure. I think the ICM on the 97' is the real difference from past post/input from members.

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm

Nope